Multi-purpose wheels for training, touring... spokes?

[Haironfire]

Looking at getting a set of wheels hand-built for above stated conditions. I consider the touring to be UN-loaded because of the trailer I use.
I've been looking at Ultegra 6700 Hubs, DT465 rims, and DT Competition DB (double-butted) spokes. Brass nipples.
BUT, I'm not immune to the BLING-factor, and have a little spare cash.... sooo, hoping to go WHITE, nicely matching my frame. Hopeful setup is:
DT 240s hubs - White
DT 465 rims - White
DT Competition spokes - Black
But, the white hubs and rims only come in 28 holes. Sigh..
So is 28 holes enough? Do I need to look for a stronger spoke?
(or should I just get the DT Mon-Chasseral set?!)
Some useful info: I train 2 or 3 times a week, 45-70km each time, and I'm looking at doing a 1500km+ touring trip on the same road bike (I've gotten comfortable) WITH a Burley Nomad trailer which has 2 wheels, leaving almost no weight on the rear wheel.
I weigh 130lbs.
I did a 135km trip with my trailer and my current wheels, 32h cheapies, no problem.

1 set of wheels is better because I'm living in Japan, which makes house-space and shipping a big deal. If I can avoid it at all, I don't want 2 sets of wheels.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Looking at getting a set of wheels hand-built for above stated conditions. I consider the touring to be UN-loaded because of the trailer I use.
I've been looking at Ultegra 6700 Hubs, DT465 rims, and DT Competition DB (double-butted) spokes. Brass nipples.
BUT, I'm not immune to the BLING-factor, and have a little spare cash.... sooo, hoping to go WHITE, nicely matching my frame. Hopeful setup is:
DT 240s hubs - White
DT 465 rims - White
DT Competition spokes - Black
But, the white hubs and rims only come in 28 holes. Sigh..
So is 28 holes enough? Do I need to look for a stronger spoke?
(or should I just get the DT Mon-Chasseral set?!)
Some useful info: I train 2 or 3 times a week, 45-70km each time, and I'm looking at doing a 1500km+ touring trip on the same road bike (I've gotten comfortable) WITH a Burley Nomad trailer which has 2 wheels, leaving almost no weight on the rear wheel.
I weigh 130lbs.
I did a 135km trip with my trailer and my current wheels, 32h cheapies, no problem.

1 set of wheels is better because I'm living in Japan, which makes house-space and shipping a big deal. If I can avoid it at all, I don't want 2 sets of wheels.

If indeed unloaded, I think the 28 wheels would be fine. Same comp spokes, brass nipps. Have the rear laced 3 cross, the front 2 cross and I think you will be fine.

 

[Notso Swift]

Yeah, if the touring weight is on a trailer
At 130lbs I am thinking you are not the type to be pounding the rear wheel too much as you pull from a standing start

 

[Haironfire]

Wheels

Thanks for the replies.
Bustedknuckle, I see you've built a few wheels. I read somewhere that 3-cross on the drive and 2-cross on the non-drive side can make the wheel stronger than just 3x both sides.
Is that "just another opinion", do you think, or do you agree?
Just fyi, the trailer adds about 10-15lbs onto the rear wheel.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Thanks for the replies.
Bustedknuckle, I see you've built a few wheels. I read somewhere that 3-cross on the drive and 2-cross on the non-drive side can make the wheel stronger than just 3x both sides.
Is that "just another opinion", do you think, or do you agree?
Just fyi, the trailer adds about 10-15lbs onto the rear wheel.

I've heard 'wheelbuilders' say that 32h is stronger than 36 because there are fewer places where the spokes are parallel..not true, just like 2 cross left side is stronger than 3 cross, even on a 28h wheel. 28 3 cross is a stronger wheel than 28 2cross, all else being equal.

 

[Houdini]

you could forgo the double butted spokes and get strait guage 14s for the rear if you're worried about it.

28, 3x, 14 straight guage spokes makes a pretty beastly rear wheel. I've been riding one with a mavic hub and an open pro rim for many years and 10s of thousads of kilometers over all kinds of surfaces without even having to true it, and I weigh 215lb. It's certianly stiffer than 32, 3x, 14-16-14 butted spoke wheels I've built with the same tension per spoke.

 

[Haironfire]

14 straight gauge spokes

Interesting reply.. I was under the impression that straight gauge spokes will be stiffer, but not actually stronger. I thought that the double-butting allowed the spokes to bend a little in the middle and absorb some of the shock of bumps - making the wheel less stiff, maybe, but overall more durable and thus "stronger".
Opinions?

 

[Boeing]

You might want to give RDV4ROUBAIX a PM. He is a wheel builder and craftsman

I am a big fan of 3x 32 open pro. brass nips with Comp spokes for training. In fact I love the way a 3x laced set up feels on a carbon bike for what that is worth

I have run 28 front 32 rear with allow nips and revo spokes on DA hubs and they are lighter than many production but find in the end for training and beating I true more and replace spokes more often. which is a pain in the wallet and time given the need to just roll the training miles

not to pitch a hub but if you went ultegra as described, you have good roll with good value you might not have to think about wheels for a long time. which is nice

but that is the extent of my knowledge and it is only my experience

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Thanks for the compliment Boeing! But between Bustedknuckle and I we have about 50+ combined years of experience building wheels, he gives just as sound and solid advice as I hope I do. I'll give one example of a wheel build I did that should put this into perspective because it relates to this thread. Built a set for a friend back in my hometown of Minneapolis 32h3x/DT Comps for all, he's 160lbs, and pulls a B.o.B trailer that weighs about 150lbs full of beer line cleaning supplies on a daily basis. Never trued in, hmmm, well he's been riding that set for about 3 years now. For a 130 pounder like our OP 28h 2x front/3x rear, DT Comps, just like Bustedknuckle recommended, should be more than sufficient for him, even when pulling a trailer.

About using straight gauge, or single butted spokes in lightweight wheels: Yes, stiffer, but not necessarily stronger, and here's why; when you lace straight gauge spokes into a wheel that is comprised of lightweight rims and hubs riding it feels much stiffer for sure, the downside is that you're putting undue stress on the hubs and rims because SG spokes do not offer the good road shock absorption compared to DB spokes, usually SG spokes are laced into cheap machine built wheels. Double butted spokes offer some resilience and weight savings without compromising durability. The goal here, especially for our OP is to find that fine line between overall wheel weight, comfort, and durability, which I believe has been resolved, and won't feel like riding a jackhammer as with SG spokes.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Thanks for the compliment Boeing! But between Bustedknuckle and I we have about 50+ combined years of experience building wheels, he gives just as sound and solid advice as I hope I do. I'll give one example of a wheel build I did that should put this into perspective because it relates to this thread. Built a set for a friend back in my hometown of Minneapolis 32h3x/DT Comps for all, he's 160lbs, and pulls a B.o.B trailer that weighs about 150lbs full of beer line cleaning supplies on a daily basis. Never trued in, hmmm, well he's been riding that set for about 3 years now. For a 130 pounder like our OP 28h 2x front/3x rear, DT Comps, just like Bustedknuckle recommended, should be more than sufficient for him, even when pulling a trailer.

About using straight gauge, or single butted spokes in lightweight wheels: Yes, stiffer, but not necessarily stronger, and here's why; when you lace straight gauge spokes into a wheel that is comprised of lightweight rims and hubs riding it feels much stiffer for sure, the downside is that you're putting undue stress on the hubs and rims because SG spokes do not offer the good road shock absorption compared to DB spokes, usually SG spokes are laced into cheap machine built wheels. Double butted spokes offer some resilience and weight savings without compromising durability. The goal here, especially for our OP is to find that fine line between overall wheel weight, comfort, and durability, which I believe has been resolved, and won't feel like riding a jackhammer as with SG spokes.

What he said...I only build with butted spokes.

 

[Haironfire]

Awesome!

Thanks for all the advice, complete with case-studies!
Cheers!