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As to Manziel, you know it says something when Drew Rosenhaus won't rep him. Drew has rep'd some of the NFL's biggest knuckleheads in recent years. Greg Hardy, Plaxico Burris, Josh Gordon, etc. He's almost made his career on taking on players other agents won't touch. Now, even he's fired Manziel.

Johnny talks like he's coming back to the NFL as soon as he gets another agent. But he may be so toxic at this point who'd want him? And even if he did, it would be some lower end, outlier agent. And even if that happens, is there really an NFL team that will take him? Let's put it this way, even in an era when QB's are at a premium, we've seen QBs like Chase Daniels, Kellen Clemens, Luke McCown, Matt Moore, Colt McCoy, Dan Orlovsky, Kellen Moore, Matt Cassell, Thaddeus Lewis, Scott Tolzien and Matt Schaub all sign to teams. Teams, and these players, knowing full well several of these players will actually get released in camp. And yet, no one even shows one bit of interest in Manzeil, this has to really say something.

Keep in mind, we still haven't even hit the draft, where you'll see a dozen or so QB's likely drafted, four of them very likely to go in the first 2-3 rounds (Goff, Wentz, Lynch and Cook) and expect to play or be a ready back-up learning from game 1.

Let's look at another angle. Vernon Adams is not a top name QB in the draft. But he's about the same size as Manziel. Maybe a tad shorter, and a bit more muscle. He's almost an unknown, and might get drafted late. Even if he doesn't, a team will take a chance on him. He played on a winning team, and at times showed impressive play, if not being NFL ready. Maybe his biggest asset is a positive attitude and dedication. If you were a GM of a team, would you sign Manziel over Adams. If so, based on what? Some flashy play going back to his freshman year in college? A few drives where he threw some nice passes for the Browns, some of which was in garbage time?
 
Re: Re:

Alpe d'Huez said:
The interesting thing is what the Browns are doing. They now have a LOT to build on going into the future. But who is their QB of the future? This year it's probably McCown with RG3 sitting and playing when McCown gets hurt. But in 2017? Is it RG3? Or do the Browns hold onto these picks thinking they can move them next year to get a player they want? Like, AJ McCarron? There's talk their new font office guys are sabermetrics type guys, which explains more of the trade to me.

The Browns are in perfect position at QB now. Their team is full of wholes so should be looking to start to fix those wholes this draft with the extra picks they have. They can also see if RG3 can go back to being a good QB. Either that works out and they have a qb or it doesn't work out and they can go for one in the 2017 draft. THey'll suck next year anyway so they'll definitely have one high pick plus the eagles pick which could be very high aswel. They'll also get loads of compensation picks from free agency next year because of letting go Mack, Schwartz, Benjamin. So next year they'll once again have loads of picks. And thus if they really like a qb next year (they clearly didn't like two this year) they can fully go for him with loads of funds (own high pick, Eagles high pick, extra middle round picks from eagles and comp) to get him.

For the Eagles: this is what they gave up for the n2 pick this season:
Other teams get:
'16 1st
'16 3rd
'16 4th
'17 1st
'18 2nd
DeMarco Murray
Kiko Alonso
Byron Maxwell

#Eagles get:
'16 No. 2 overall
 
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on3m@n@rmy said:
Well, if I remember correctly Jamarcus Russell, while a bust, wasn't a bust because of character issues like Leaf & JFootball.

Whoa. That Josh Norman news was a surprise. SEA could use some help.

On the concussion/tackling subject, here is the second video by Rocky Seto (SEA) on tackling technique for safety. Mom's, don't panic!
http://www.seahawks.com/video/2016/04/20/2016-seahawks-tackling
RE: Jamarcus, unless you don't consider getting fat, lazy, and not doing any work to bet better "character issues". :) I know what you meant, but I still have pain from Jamarcus. The guy just didn't care after he got paid. Took his money and retired as soon as he got it.
 
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red_flanders said:
on3m@n@rmy said:
Well, if I remember correctly Jamarcus Russell, while a bust, wasn't a bust because of character issues like Leaf & JFootball.

Whoa. That Josh Norman news was a surprise. SEA could use some help.

On the concussion/tackling subject, here is the second video by Rocky Seto (SEA) on tackling technique for safety. Mom's, don't panic!
http://www.seahawks.com/video/2016/04/20/2016-seahawks-tackling
RE: Jamarcus, unless you don't consider getting fat, lazy, and not doing any work to bet better "character issues". :) I know what you meant, but I still have pain from Jamarcus. The guy just didn't care after he got paid. Took his money and retired as soon as he got it.
That is a good one. Honest. And good point. But at least JMarc did not end up fried on opioids etc and in jail for burglary like Leaf, or some woman abuser like the other.
 
Re: Re:

Alpe d'Huez said:
on3m@n@rmy said:
That Josh Norman news was a surprise. SEA could use some help.
Oh sure, they are really hurting in the secondary, right.

Could you imagine Norman on the Legion of Doom? Could they even afford him?
I wrote that half tongue in cheek, but with some seriousness. The corner opposite Sherman could stand an upgrade, since he was really a safety pressed into the CB position because they were so thin. Bringing Brandon back is a depth move. Maybe Browner could start again, but that thought makes me cringe with all the penalties he gets.

But afford? They have $35M in cap space, about. Seeing as how there are about 25 or 30 offensive linemen in the league that make more money each on their own than the entire SEA line COMBINED. :eek:

The surprise though: Carolina franchising Norman, then rescinding it. :confused: What is that all about? Do they want to resign him for less money? So they let all the other teams spend their FA money on others during initial FA process, then deliberately rescind the franchise tag so they have a better shot to resign him?

On Philly: I have no freakin' clue what they are doing. If I was an Eagle fan I'd be mad. Eagles are not that good a team to be giving away all those picks to the Browns. They have too many holes, and the team is not in a position to give all those away, unlike the Rams.

On the other hand, the Titans and Browns: they are geniuses. Kudos to Hue Jackson the CLE HC. They too have a lot of holes to fill, and this trade is a really good first step to accomplishing that if they draft well. You can say the same for the Titans.

On the Rams: giving up all those picks at first glance might look like lunacy. But the Rams have invested more in the balance of the team and are in better position to make a move like that than Philly did.
 
Cleveland really hit the jackpot here I think, even more than the Titans. They've been a laughing stock for so long, but you look at the foundation they are building now...as impossible as it seems, I can see them winning that division, and a lot of games in just a few short years. And that's assuming they still need a QB in a year or two. Imagine if somehow RG3 gets his head on straight and turns into a mostly drop back pocket passer? He certainly has the arm, and smarts, to do it. They must have some sort of play to build up their offense around a future QB, and with all those draft picks, could end up with a Seahawks 2012 like cap payroll.

As to Philly, I'd be upset too. I wouldn't say the Rams had that much to give away, but they did have more, and as I alluded to before, they can sign Goff and put a fresh new face on a fresh new city/franchise. It sort of makes sense, if it pans out. The Eagles? I don't get that. They didn't have the depth, and they don't even get to pick the QB they want, they have to be okay getting either Wentz or Goff, knowing that Bradford will start anyway, and Daniel will back him up, and they'll develop this new QB for a year, maybe less, maybe longer. And about the time that guy is really ready to play, he'll have a really thin team around him. It may look like David Carr in Houston or Tim Couch in Cleveland. Sacked all the time, no one to throw to.

Adding to this, Philadelphia looks like they'll finish last in that division and start a rebuild, which means a lot of high draft picks in the future, a few could be very high, top 5 or better...picks that will mostly go to Cleveland.
 
I watched a 60 Minutes, 20/20, or Dateline interview with Russell a while back. He seems like a nice guy. He has spent a lot of money taking care of his family (some he probably didn't meet until he had $$). The funniest thing in the interview though was when they were in a shop/storage building of his, and he was showing them some of the things he had bought. He uncovered a car, got a huge grin on his face and said: "I didn't even know I had this." It was a Ferrari!
 
When Russell was training with Jeff Garcia to get back into the NFL, you could tell he wasn't a jerk. He may have not actually been fully dedicated then even, and once his last payment from the Raiders came in, and no one really showed interest in him, he pretty much packed it in. But anyone who saw any of those video clips likely thought of him as an okay person. But as a player, he's definitely one of the biggest busts ever. Had he been drafted at the top of the 3rd round, maybe he wouldn't have been remembered that way, so Al Davis gets some of that blame.

Compared to Leaf, Russell is a choir boy. Leaf not only was a very poor player (though he played more downs than Russell, he wasn't any better, maybe worse), he was equally apathetic, but even more than that, Leaf was a rotten human being.

Manziel's just a sad story right now.

The Panthers GM is saying the door isn't closed on Gordan, but I wonder how much of a pay cut they'll expect him to take?

The real winner of yesterday's trade may be Paxton Lynch. The next QB on the block. But anyone who's seen some of the films or analysis of him has to know he's no where near being ready to start in the NFL. He looks like he needs a lot of learning. So will the 49ers or Cowboys or Denver, or Arizona take him?

The thing is, all this talk about QB's, and all the expert talk for some time is that this draft is heavily weighted with defensive standouts. I saw one mock draft with Jalen Ramsey falling to Baltimore. That team is stacked with excellent young defenders already. They way underperformed last season after a rash of injuries. Suggs in game 1. But later Smith, Flacco, more. Many more.

Saw a clip the other day on Ezekeil Elliott and how he won't be the NFL back some think. He ran behind a best in the NCAA offensive line, and had a heap of carries, often in games out of reach, to pile on stats. Films don't show him creating plays on his own, though it doesn't look like he loses much yardage. This doesn't look like a first round pick to me.
 
Re:

Alpe d'Huez said:
When Russell was training with Jeff Garcia to get back into the NFL, you could tell he wasn't a jerk. He may have not actually been fully dedicated then even, and once his last payment from the Raiders came in, and no one really showed interest in him, he pretty much packed it in. But anyone who saw any of those video clips likely thought of him as an okay person. But as a player, he's definitely one of the biggest busts ever. Had he been drafted at the top of the 3rd round, maybe he wouldn't have been remembered that way, so Al Davis gets some of that blame.

Compared to Leaf, Russell is a choir boy. Leaf not only was a very poor player (though he played more downs than Russell, he wasn't any better, maybe worse), he was equally apathetic, but even more than that, Leaf was a rotten human being.

Manziel's just a sad story right now.

The Panthers GM is saying the door isn't closed on Gordan, but I wonder how much of a pay cut they'll expect him to take?

The real winner of yesterday's trade may be Paxton Lynch. The next QB on the block. But anyone who's seen some of the films or analysis of him has to know he's no where near being ready to start in the NFL. He looks like he needs a lot of learning. So will the 49ers or Cowboys or Denver, or Arizona take him?

The thing is, all this talk about QB's, and all the expert talk for some time is that this draft is heavily weighted with defensive standouts. I saw one mock draft with Jalen Ramsey falling to Baltimore. That team is stacked with excellent young defenders already. They way underperformed last season after a rash of injuries. Suggs in game 1. But later Smith, Flacco, more. Many more.

Saw a clip the other day on Ezekeil Elliott and how he won't be the NFL back some think. He ran behind a best in the NCAA offensive line, and had a heap of carries, often in games out of reach, to pile on stats. Films don't show him creating plays on his own, though it doesn't look like he loses much yardage. This doesn't look like a first round pick to me.
I think there is more chance of the 49ers taking Connor Cooke than Lynch as it seems they will now miss on picking up Goff. Baalke seems to like Cooke but if Kaep stays which is a big maybe many expect the 49ers to go defense with their first pick. Hoyer is talking to Denver so surely Denver will now decide on either him or Kaep with Manziel out of the picture unless Denver decide to draft one now that they have more cap space. I think they have to go with an experienced QB and many have doubts about Sanchez's quality.
 
my head is spinning at the eagles moves - in a division where they all would have sat back and chuckled at just how the RGIII deal went for the redskins they go and do a very similar thing for another unproven prospect.

it's kinda what I love about the NFL though (and others have spoken about it before) - there comes a point where someone in the front office just throws all reason out the window and goes "what the hell" and rolls the dice like a couple of teenagers playing Risk.

If a multi-national did this there would be heads rolling, right at the top - like a mobile phone company hitches it's future to a crappy phone, or a gaming company delivers a bad console (Sega Dreamcast for example) - heads will roll.

But I guess with the never-ending fountain of money that pours out of the pipes at the NFL HQ it doesn't really matter if a team consigns itself to the bottom of the pile for a number of years, of course the NFL loves winners, but they need losers too - not everyone can go 16-0.

Can't wait to see the fall out (or massive payoff)...
 
Re:

Alpe d'Huez said:
Here's an article from USA Today saying Cook leaves some teams uneasy:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2016/04/21/connor-cook-michigan-state-nfl-draft/83337046/

Adding to Cook's kiss of death Mel Kiper Jr. (who has no business in broadcasting, IMO) has now said Cook is better than Kirk Cousins.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2016/04/19/michigan-state-connor-cook-nfl-draft/83255278/
Yes I read some of these things but it seems many teams are still prepared to gamble if the talent is there. He is not a mobile QB but Chip has worked with non mobile QBs and also had good results. 49ers might be one of the teams that will not worry about a QB if Goff and Wentz go early in the draft as expected and the jury is also out on whether even those two will have the goods to succeed in the NFL. For teams where the QB need is not so great they might wait till 2017 but the 49ers are in two minds because there is a pretty good chance that Kaep will be traded still. I think they will pick up a QB in later rounds and I still think Cook is a possible pick for them. What happens if Gabbert gets injured after Kaep is traded ? They virtually have to pick one up as Thad Lewis and Dylan Thompson are unlikely to be starters.
 
Well, Kiper's a non-football guy making football talent judgements. And it shows based on his history. Kiper was fine for the 80's. But he's out of touch now. He should just get a new hair style and start over. Maybe a new look would help him shake the perceptions we all have of him. :D

How good is the new Browns regime compared to the Eagles? One sign is looking at team needs and how each is addressing them up to now. So, at the bottom of each team is a sum of the top 8 priorities and sum the priorities for all positions. The lower the priority means there is greater need. While CLE has slightly more need overall (127), Eagles are not far behind at 132. Then look at the top four needs. CLE has QB and CB, but they partially filled the QB need with RG3. Their next is CB. So who is CLE projected to take in their first pick? Some mocks say CB. That would be an excellent move by getting value for the pick, because remember this draft is looaded on defense, and stacked at CB. Then lower down they can take a QB when the value of the pick is not so important.

PHIL on the other hand, look at their top needs. QB IS NOT THERE - except now Bradford is mad and may ask for trade. AND PHIL gives up all those picks for a QB that they should not really be digging deep for when they have other important needs to fill.

Conclusion: you can look at the numbers and mocks yourself and decide, but for me this proves CLE are geniuses and PHIL are smoking weed, or something.

CLEV.................PHI.....
POS....PRI........POS.....PRI
QB........1..........LOT.....1
CB........2..........CB.......2
DE34....2..........DE43....3
ILB.......2..........OLB43..3
OC........2.........RBF.......3
ROT.......2.........DT43....4
WRF......2..........WRF.....4
FS.........4..........OG.......5
OLB34...4.........QB........5
RBF.......4..........FB........6
DT34.....6..........FS........6
OG........6..........ILB.......6
DE43....9..........ROT......6
DT43....9..........SS.........6
OLB43..9..........DE34...9
PK........9..........DT34...9
SS........9..........OC.......9
FB........9.........OLB34...9
LOT......9..........PK........9
RBC.....9..........RBC.....9
TE........9..........TE........9
WRS.....9..........WRS....9
top 8....17...................25
all.......127.................132
 
The TEN-LA and CLE-PHIL trades have everyone talking about the QBs in this draft. The RBs have flown under the radar, so time to dust them off here. If your team needed a RB who would you hope they are able to take, or not take, in the draft?
Below is a pretty good link that paints the picture for the top to mid RBs in this draft. The article does a good job of pointing out stats and presenting them in a way that makes it visually easier to compare the RBs. You will have to go to the link at take a look. I cannot do it justice without discussing terminology of some of the stats (e.g. "Opp Rate" and "Hlt/Opp") presented in the author's chart and graphics.
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/4/21/11477146/nfl-draft-2016-running-back-ezekiel-elliott-derrick-henry-deandre-washington?_ga=1.97321243.506141220.1459525876
Personally, I have not been a huge fan of Bama's Derrick Henry. Henry's awful 3-cone time of 7.2 confirms what game film does, that the kid is not adept at change of direction. At Bama, he did not have to change direction very often and would simply truck defenders. I think the Buckeyes Ezekiel Elliot's skills translate better to the NFL.
 
Re:

jmdirt said:
The Norman deal is everything I hate about the NFL...a sport I love to watch.

EDIT: I hate a few other things too! ;)
Agreed, and I know others in this forum have voice their displeasure with the amount of greed in the NFL at all levels, not just the players greed. The owners and League's greed for wanting to increase the number of regular season games from the current 16. Why? Greed. And expanding the playoffs for the same reason, not caring about the toll on the players. Think about this, if the NFL still did not have free agency, this football "industry" would be about as close to slave labor as we can get today in America.
 
Re: Re:

on3m@n@rmy said:
jmdirt said:
The Norman deal is everything I hate about the NFL...a sport I love to watch.

EDIT: I hate a few other things too! ;)
Agreed, and I know others in this forum have voice their displeasure with the amount of greed in the NFL at all levels, not just the players greed. The owners and League's greed for wanting to increase the number of regular season games from the current 16. Why? Greed. And expanding the playoffs for the same reason, not caring about the toll on the players. Think about this, if the NFL still did not have free agency, this football "industry" would be about as close to slave labor as we can get today in America.
Greed is the overlying issue, but the lack of loyalty (all around) offends me too.
 
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on3m@n@rmy said:
Greed is the overlying issue, but the lack of loyalty (all around) offends me too.
Great post on the Cleveland/Philly trade there.

As to greed, I'm sure if the NFL could have the season go 162 games like baseball, they would.

I'm not surprised by the Josh Norman deal. He's one of the best CB's in the NFL, and some team with some cash in hand was bound to offer him a check. Great deal for Washington. And for us fans too, in that we get to see him go up against Beckham twice a year now. Despite Beckham completely losing his cool in their match-up last season, they were actually fairly evenly matched up if you watched the game. It's only because of his temper as badly as he did, and Norman did get the better of him as the game went on, that history makes it look like Norman completely shut him down.
 
Re: Re:

Alpe d'Huez said:
on3m@n@rmy said:
Greed is the overlying issue, but the lack of loyalty (all around) offends me too.
Great post on the Cleveland/Philly trade there.
Well, I'm not taking credit for the team needs list for CLE and PHIL. Heck, I don't have the time to put together a list like that for two NFL teams, even though I the same list for all the teams. I got that data from DraftTek.com and just sorted it differently that made sense knowing the draft is coming. And DraftTek guys update their data probably weekly. I just made the observations after the trades were made between Ten-LA and Cle-Phil.
 
The NFL.com website has this article on it:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655649/article/brady-fourgame-suspension-reinstated-by-us-appeals-court

Seriously?

As to read into it further, what this really amounts to is that because of the way the CBA was written, Roger Goodell has near omnipotent power over a player's career when passing judgment on any perceived rule violation, and can solely act as judge, jury, and executioner, without having to be held accountable by anyone, and without any oversight, sans the owners deciding he must be removed from his position. Here is the CBA language the court referred to:

"All disputes involving a fine or suspension imposed upon a player for conduct on the playing field will be processed exclusively as follows: The commissioner will promptly send written notice of his action to the player, with a copy to the NFLPA. Within three business days following such a written notification, the player affected thereby, or the NFLPA with the player's approval, may appeal in writing to the Commissioner."

This is so beyond Brady. You can look at any number of other players and cases, as I'm sure any Saints fan can talk your ear off, or players like Fred Jackson, Lance Briggs (and the 49ers), or James Harrison, plus a slew of really uneven suspensions (Hardy, Peterson, Benson, Rice). I can only surmise that when originally seeing this language, the NFLPA didn't examine it closely, or just assumed that the not-named "Commissioner" would act in good faith, just as Paul Taglibou and Pete Rozelle had (even through some contentious times), and Goodell seemed to hedge on the side of caution previously.

But this has to be a coup de gras. And not just for the players, because they're going to now get fuller fan support. There is no possible way this language will continue into the next CBA. Even rival teams and players that don't like Brady will rise up against this. I'm so convinced of this, that I could see the NFLPA refusing to cooperate in any future contract negotiations all the way to a full lockout/strike until this language is completely changed.
 

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