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Re: Re:

Nomad said:
on3m@n@rmy said:
Jackson was like 6'7", 249 lbs, and ran a 4.59 40. A physical specimen who performed very well in the other combine events. However, he has a list of weaknesses that make some label him a "developmental" QB.

One of the top, if not the top, QB prospects is OSU's Dewayne Haskins (while having limited mobility @ 5.04 in the 40) is considered low on experience and will have to learn on the fly in the NFL.

The other top prospect would be Murray. It might be feigning by Arizona, but many think Ky Murray is the guy for new Cards HC Kliff Kingsbury, who was a college Air Raid offense specialist. Murray probably is a good fit for Kliff's style of offense, but this being the NFL we'll see just how much of the Air Raid Kingsbury uses and how much typical NFL offenses (power, counters, operating under center) that Kingsbury uses, and how he adapts to the NFL. Kingsbury's QBs have mostly operated out of the shotgun. For Kilff, he might be just feigning about Murray and behind closed doors be all-in on Josh Rosen (to increase value he could get by trading down the #1 overall pick), or he might be like sell-sell-sell on Rosen and all-in on Murray. Interesting as it is, I'm more interested (or hoping) Kingsbury brings some of the Air Raid with him to the NFL because I'm curious to see how it works out.
That would be a bold move by Arizona to select Murray with numero uno. And with a move like that I would bet Chosen Rosen is out of there. He's not going to put up with that being the 10th OA pick last year (In fact, Arizona moved up from No. 15 in a deal with the Raiders, giving up picks in the third and fifth rounds to get Rosen), receiving a big contract (11 mil signing bonus!) and starting most of the season last year.

And with Murray taken #1 OA he's going to expect to start himself (as well as ownership expecting him to start sometime during the season) and not sit the bench behind Rosen. Remember last year all the "Big 4" ended up starting most of the season with Darnold starting right out of the gate. Even Jackson, the last pick of the 1st rd, supplanted a SB winning QB in Flacco. Though Jackson came off the bench for Flacco when he had that early season hip injury, however, once Flacco was cleared to play he never got his job back (even for Baltimore's 1st rd playoff game). In fact, it's so bad with Flacco and so promising for Jackson, Baltimore is running him out of town and it looks like we get stuck with him over here in Bronco land. Lol.

It would be colossal can of worms for Arizona to take Murray when Rosen was drafted last year to be "The Guy" for the Cardinals.
Somehow i don't see Rosen being around for long even if Murray isn't drafted by the Cardinals. Elway probably wishes he had waited around for Foles. I never believed that the Eagles would franchise him.
 
movingtarget, I posted similar when DEN took Flacco, what was the rush?!

It is unfortunate that the expectation is for a rookie QB to come in and be successful, period, especially for a team that doesn't have any other pieces in place, but year after year the NFL owners expect that now. JR might be OK to good for a different team and develop into a solid starter some day.
 
Re:

jmdirt said:
movingtarget, I posted similar when DEN took Flacco, what was the rush?!

It is unfortunate that the expectation is for a rookie QB to come in and be successful, period, especially for a team that doesn't have any other pieces in place, but year after year the NFL owners expect that now. JR might be OK to good for a different team and develop into a solid starter some day.

It didn't used to be that way, but over the last couple of decades it has become that way. Hopefully the Giants do draft one of these QBs. Whoever it is, I hope understand that value of sitting for a year or two behind Eli to learn. (I also don't see Eli realistically having more than about 2 years left.)
 
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on3m@n@rmy said:
Agree with what you all are saying regarding Murray, Rosen, Flacco, QB expectations & management/owner win-now attitudes.

Rams RB Todd Gurley reportedly has arthritis in knee, hence why he got limited action at the end of the season including playoffs. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823151-rams-rb-todd-gurley-reportedly-has-arthritis-in-injured-knee
I saw that headline, I wonder what that means for a RB in the NFL? My assumption is that he will give it a go next season while using some type of pharma.
 
Re: Re:

jmdirt said:
on3m@n@rmy said:
Agree with what you all are saying regarding Murray, Rosen, Flacco, QB expectations & management/owner win-now attitudes.

Rams RB Todd Gurley reportedly has arthritis in knee, hence why he got limited action at the end of the season including playoffs. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823151-rams-rb-todd-gurley-reportedly-has-arthritis-in-injured-knee
I saw that headline, I wonder what that means for a RB in the NFL? My assumption is that he will give it a go next season while using some type of pharma.
Not something an RB wants. Probably a short career on the way. Make hay while the sun shines..........
 
Re:

on3m@n@rmy said:
Agree with what you all are saying regarding Murray, Rosen, Flacco, QB expectations & management/owner win-now attitudes.

Rams RB Todd Gurley reportedly has arthritis in knee, hence why he got limited action at the end of the season including playoffs. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823151-rams-rb-todd-gurley-reportedly-has-arthritis-in-injured-knee
Definitely not good. He tore his ACL on that knee back in his freshman year at Georgia and had reconstruction. Sounds like the injury has progressed to OA as studies have shown with ACL tears but usually not that fast (> 10 yrs). Article doesn't mention anything about the possibility of microfracture surgery which is suppose to be pretty successful with younger athletes though the return-to-play rates can vary. Clowney, Woodson & Melvin Gordon come to mind who have had successful microfracture surgery but I'm sure there's also failures.
 
Re: Re:

Nomad said:
on3m@n@rmy said:
Jackson was like 6'7", 249 lbs, and ran a 4.59 40. A physical specimen who performed very well in the other combine events. However, he has a list of weaknesses that make some label him a "developmental" QB.

One of the top, if not the top, QB prospects is OSU's Dewayne Haskins (while having limited mobility @ 5.04 in the 40) is considered low on experience and will have to learn on the fly in the NFL.

The other top prospect would be Murray. It might be feigning by Arizona, but many think Ky Murray is the guy for new Cards HC Kliff Kingsbury, who was a college Air Raid offense specialist. Murray probably is a good fit for Kliff's style of offense, but this being the NFL we'll see just how much of the Air Raid Kingsbury uses and how much typical NFL offenses (power, counters, operating under center) that Kingsbury uses, and how he adapts to the NFL. Kingsbury's QBs have mostly operated out of the shotgun. For Kilff, he might be just feigning about Murray and behind closed doors be all-in on Josh Rosen (to increase value he could get by trading down the #1 overall pick), or he might be like sell-sell-sell on Rosen and all-in on Murray. Interesting as it is, I'm more interested (or hoping) Kingsbury brings some of the Air Raid with him to the NFL because I'm curious to see how it works out.
That would be a bold move by Arizona to select Murray with numero uno. And with a move like that I would bet Chosen Rosen is out of there. He's not going to put up with that being the 10th OA pick last year (In fact, Arizona moved up from No. 15 in a deal with the Raiders, giving up picks in the third and fifth rounds to get Rosen), receiving a big contract (11 mil signing bonus!) and starting most of the season last year.

And with Murray taken #1 OA he's going to expect to start himself (as well as ownership expecting him to start sometime during the season) and not sit the bench behind Rosen. Remember last year all the "Big 4" ended up starting most of the season with Darnold starting right out of the gate. Even Jackson, the last pick of the 1st rd, supplanted a SB winning QB in Flacco. Though Jackson came off the bench for Flacco when he had that early season hip injury, however, once Flacco was cleared to play he never got his job back (even for Baltimore's 1st rd playoff game). In fact, it's so bad with Flacco and so promising for Jackson, Baltimore is running him out of town and it looks like we get stuck with him over here in Bronco land. Lol.

It would be colossal can of worms for Arizona to take Murray when Rosen was drafted last year to be "The Guy" for the Cardinals.
Well, Murray now has some proving to do (Pro days are coming, which will provide opportunities for him to speak to and convince teams he's OK in the head), because the bold move to take Murray #1 OA may be getting bolder, and the can of worms more like a 55-gallon drum sized can. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823673-charley-casserly-combine-feedback-on-kyler-murray-worst-hes-ever-gotten A sample of the content in that link, from Casserly:
"He better hope [Kliff] Kingsbury takes him No. 1 because this was not good. These were the worst comments I ever got on a high-rated quarterback and I've been doing this a long time...leadership—not good. Study habits—not good. The board work—below not good. Not good at all in any of those areas, raising major concerns about what this guy is going to do."

"Now, people will say we're going to compare him to [Patrick] Mahomes, we're going to run an offense like Mahomes, we're going to run an offense like Baker Mayfield. ... But those guys are much different. Those guys, you never questioned them about their ability on the board, you never questioned their leadership ability, their work habits. ... [Murray] is not outstanding in those areas and it showed up in the interview."
Consider the can of worms it would be if the Cards trade Rosen, draft Murray #1 OA, and then Murray fails (not so much on talent, but due to lack of leadership, work ethic, and the mental side).

In spite of that, Casserly has heard from another NFL team (via reporter Jim Palmer) that the Cards are shopping Josh Rosen, so that they'd have to take Murray if they end up trading Rosen. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823670-nfl-trade-rumors-josh-rosen-being-shopped-by-cardinals-amid-kyler-murray-buzz
OR maybe the Cards switch and take Haskins? Haskins is short on college experience, but has a rep as a proven leader, and a guy who has delivered come-from-behind victories for Ohio State. But, Haskins is a Pro-style QB, which does not fit Kliff Kingsbury's (college) offense. So would Kliff scrap the Air Raid offense for more of a Pro-style offense that he could build around Haskins? Lots of questions.
 
There's no possibly way the Cards hold Rosen if they are thinking of drafting Murray. I just don't see it. No way both QBs are on the roster either. They also play different styles.

I'm not sure how well Rosen would play in New York. That's the most brutal market to play in, and I don't know if he has the moxie to do that. You either have to be stoic to criticism while politiely acknolwedging it (where Eli has been superb. Simms was like that too) or confident like Joe Namath. You react, or show weakness (Hofstettler) you're into the grinder with the fans, and local NY media. Anyone who has lived in, or near NY has to know what I'm saying here. But I do think he certainly has a future in the NFL.

I agree that it's now the norm if you are drafted in the 1st round, you're going to be expected to play in your rookie year, sometimes from week 1. The only way that's bad is if the team is really in the dump, has a poor offense, and the QB gets hammered. This may have happened to Rosen, hard to say. It was off and on with Josh Allen in Buffalo, but he did show some talent, and at least some improvement.

As to the Air Raid, I'm not 100% confident the Texas Tech offense can just come into the NFL and succeed. Remember the Run and Shoot? What Buddy Ryan called the "chuck and duck" offense? Warren Moon, as much talent as he had, mostly put up big numbers between the 10 yard lines in that offense. Has the league changed that much in the last 20 years? I'm not so sure (after slow, pocket passer Tom Brady wins yet another Super Bowl).

With Jacksonville anyone who thinks that Nick Foles is going to turn them into a serious playoff contender (after all, they made it to the 2017 AFC Championship) is really optimistic. While there is no question Foles would be an instant and vast improvement over Blake Bortles, and has leadership and confidence that will likely help the team almost immediately, they still have a lot of issues. They had numerous changes in their OL last year, Foruette was often hurt, and didn't run great when he wasn't, and their receiving corps is iffy, and was often hurt too last year. Even assuming everyone gets and stays healthy, there's still an uphill road. Keep in mind the Jags play in the same division as the Colts, who by all standards may be one of the best teams in the AFC next year. They're already good, and have lots of cap space. Then there's Houston, who won the division at 11-5, with Watson starting to enter his prime maybe. And Tennessee is also talented and well balanced.

As to microfracture surgery, Bob Sanders is one player who couldn't come back from him. I believe in the NBA both Greg Oden and Brandon Roy of the Portland Trailblazers had microfracture surgery on both knees (plus some more surgeries) and Roy tried his darndest to recover with sporadic success, but Oden never did. It takes a while to heal, but as noted, it helps if you are young and healthy.

I read up on Aaron Hernandez there and other articles. His ability to think clearly and reason was just gone. I can only wonder if the autopsy on Lawerence Philips is ever released if it's revealed he too was at deep stage 3, or deep stage 4 CTE. OJ Simpson as well. In fact CTE is so presumed by players, even Boomer Esiasan said he suffered few if any concussions (small cumlative hits are just as bad), but said he probably has at least level 1 already, and it may be worse as he gets old and passes away. I'd also even speculate it is affecting some players today with emotional issues. I don't want to presume too much, but look at Antonio Brown and his attitude swings. It makes you wonder.
 
Casserly is an *sshole! He and most of his POS talking head brethren would rather bash some kid with worthless tabloid shi*t than actually tackle an issue with integrity and fortitude. You won't see them do any work on a difficult issue when they can hit soft targets 24/7. Quit filling space with adnauseam drivel and pretend like you enjoy (uinderstand) the sports that are paying your bills you ballless sh*tbags!
 
Re:

Alpe d'Huez said:
There's no possibly way the Cards hold Rosen if they are thinking of drafting Murray. I just don't see it. No way both QBs are on the roster either. They also play different styles.

I'm not sure how well Rosen would play in New York. That's the most brutal market to play in, and I don't know if he has the moxie to do that. You either have to be stoic to criticism while politiely acknolwedging it (where Eli has been superb. Simms was like that too) or confident like Joe Namath. You react, or show weakness (Hofstettler) you're into the grinder with the fans, and local NY media. Anyone who has lived in, or near NY has to know what I'm saying here. But I do think he certainly has a future in the NFL.

I agree that it's now the norm if you are drafted in the 1st round, you're going to be expected to play in your rookie year, sometimes from week 1. The only way that's bad is if the team is really in the dump, has a poor offense, and the QB gets hammered. This may have happened to Rosen, hard to say. It was off and on with Josh Allen in Buffalo, but he did show some talent, and at least some improvement.

As to the Air Raid, I'm not 100% confident the Texas Tech offense can just come into the NFL and succeed. Remember the Run and Shoot? What Buddy Ryan called the "chuck and duck" offense? Warren Moon, as much talent as he had, mostly put up big numbers between the 10 yard lines in that offense. Has the league changed that much in the last 20 years? I'm not so sure (after slow, pocket passer Tom Brady wins yet another Super Bowl).

With Jacksonville anyone who thinks that Nick Foles is going to turn them into a serious playoff contender (after all, they made it to the 2017 AFC Championship) is really optimistic. While there is no question Foles would be an instant and vast improvement over Blake Bortles, and has leadership and confidence that will likely help the team almost immediately, they still have a lot of issues. They had numerous changes in their OL last year, Foruette was often hurt, and didn't run great when he wasn't, and their receiving corps is iffy, and was often hurt too last year. Even assuming everyone gets and stays healthy, there's still an uphill road. Keep in mind the Jags play in the same division as the Colts, who by all standards may be one of the best teams in the AFC next year. They're already good, and have lots of cap space. Then there's Houston, who won the division at 11-5, with Watson starting to enter his prime maybe. And Tennessee is also talented and well balanced.

As to microfracture surgery, Bob Sanders is one player who couldn't come back from him. I believe in the NBA both Greg Oden and Brandon Roy of the Portland Trailblazers had microfracture surgery on both knees (plus some more surgeries) and Roy tried his darndest to recover with sporadic success, but Oden never did. It takes a while to heal, but as noted, it helps if you are young and healthy.

I read up on Aaron Hernandez there and other articles. His ability to think clearly and reason was just gone. I can only wonder if the autopsy on Lawerence Philips is ever released if it's revealed he too was at deep stage 3, or deep stage 4 CTE. OJ Simpson as well. In fact CTE is so presumed by players, even Boomer Esiasan said he suffered few if any concussions (small cumlative hits are just as bad), but said he probably has at least level 1 already, and it may be worse as he gets old and passes away. I'd also even speculate it is affecting some players today with emotional issues. I don't want to presume too much, but look at Antonio Brown and his attitude swings. It makes you wonder.
I wonder if the Jags plan to bring in some firepoweer to help Foles (OL/WR...) or they are just going to plug him in and hope to be the Eagles. AB to Jax? :D
 
Good info there on all those topics, Alpe. So thanks.

As to CTE, I've said before, many players who play beyond HS say some of their worst "dings" to the *** came in HS where they played both ways (offense & defense), whereas their exposure to collisions in college was limited, even as starters in college, because they only played one way (only offense or only defense). That too makes me wonder how many more guys will develop symptoms as they age.

Regarding the Air Raid in the NFL, after Kingsbury was named the AZ head coach but before the draft, Bill Polian was quoted as saying (sorry I don't have the reference) that he did not think the Air Raid would work in the NFL at all. He may be right, but his reason for saying that has some holes in it. The reason he gave was the history of how many teams make the Super Bowl using something other than Pro-style offenses where they run counters, power, and QBs under center some of the time (like NE and other SB teams have done recently). That's because that's what most teams have run historically. I used to think RPO would not work in the NFL, but it has been proven to be used successfully in SPOT usage (e.g. not all the time). So I think it is possible Air Raid could work in the NFL, or at least some of the time. But I say that kind of guarded because of the way RPO & Air Raid OL blocking is often executed, where OLmen have to lay off blocks to not get penalized for getting too far downfield on a pass, which in turn is essentially a less physical style of play, not as punishing against defenders, and can result in not wearing down defenders as much as Pro-style run plays can. However, RPO combined with up tempo can wear down defenders just as well. Up-tempo being an offense that can crank out 90 offensive plays per game, where they run plays as fast as humanly possible, where defenses have no chance to substitute, and offenses are ready to snap the ball for the next play just as defenders are struggling to get into position for the next play. These things can go in cycles. Take McVey's success. Now every team in need is searching for the next McVey and Kingsbury is a good example. But guess what? Defensive coaches are really smart too, so these fancy new offensive styles will eventually get figured out by defensive minds, IMO.
 
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jmdirt said:
Casserly is an *sshole! He and most of his POS talking head brethren would rather bash some kid with worthless tabloid shi*t than actually tackle an issue with integrity and fortitude. You won't see them do any work on a difficult issue when they can hit soft targets 24/7. Quit filling space with adnauseam drivel and pretend like you enjoy (uinderstand) the sports that are paying your bills you ballless sh*tbags!
There is that :D. Usually when I see Casserly come up I'm like :rolleyes: . This time he's getting some information from other sources. Not just his opinion. But maybe his sources are a bit like his?

Edit: Colin Cowherd today said on his show, The Herd, he called 2 NFL scouts last night to get their opinion on what Casserly said about Murray, and both scouts backed Casserly (like him or not) by saying what Casserly said was "not untrue".
 
Re: Re:

on3m@n@rmy said:
jmdirt said:
Casserly is an *sshole! He and most of his POS talking head brethren would rather bash some kid with worthless tabloid shi*t than actually tackle an issue with integrity and fortitude. You won't see them do any work on a difficult issue when they can hit soft targets 24/7. Quit filling space with adnauseam drivel and pretend like you enjoy (uinderstand) the sports that are paying your bills you ballless sh*tbags!
There is that :D. Usually when I see Casserly come up I'm like :rolleyes: . This time he's getting some information from other sources. Not just his opinion. But maybe his sources are a bit like his?

Edit: Colin Cowherd today said on his show, The Herd, he called 2 NFL scouts last night to get their opinion on what Casserly said about Murray, and both scouts backed Casserly (like him or not) by saying what Casserly said was "not untrue".
Even Skip Bayliss who has jumped on the Murray train and has watched Murray in plenty of college games, while ripping into Casserly also said that Murray is a quirky personality. In other words he may have performed poorly at the interview but Bayliss seems to think it won't affect his on field play. Casserly and others beg to differ. Bayliss thinks Murray will tear it up in the NFL but then he also thinks that Dak Prescott is a top five QB...........
 
Re: Re:

on3m@n@rmy said:
jmdirt said:
Casserly is an *sshole! He and most of his POS talking head brethren would rather bash some kid with worthless tabloid shi*t than actually tackle an issue with integrity and fortitude. You won't see them do any work on a difficult issue when they can hit soft targets 24/7. Quit filling space with adnauseam drivel and pretend like you enjoy (uinderstand) the sports that are paying your bills you ballless sh*tbags!
There is that :D. Usually when I see Casserly come up I'm like :rolleyes: . This time he's getting some information from other sources. Not just his opinion. But maybe his sources are a bit like his?

Edit: Colin Cowherd today said on his show, The Herd, he called 2 NFL scouts last night to get their opinion on what Casserly said about Murray, and both scouts backed Casserly (like him or not) by saying what Casserly said was "not untrue".
Murray specifics aside, most of the talking heads are now *sshole sh*tbags. coward is a HUGE POS. Plus, the NFL insiders are *sshats too for "leaking" that info. Professionalism escaped them long ago. Murray didn't do the song and dance routine like their strip mall hooker so don't draft him, but don't be a chicken sh*t talking trash fourth hand.
 
Re: Re:

jmdirt said:
on3m@n@rmy said:
jmdirt said:
Casserly is an *sshole! He and most of his POS talking head brethren would rather bash some kid with worthless tabloid shi*t than actually tackle an issue with integrity and fortitude. You won't see them do any work on a difficult issue when they can hit soft targets 24/7. Quit filling space with adnauseam drivel and pretend like you enjoy (uinderstand) the sports that are paying your bills you ballless sh*tbags!
There is that :D. Usually when I see Casserly come up I'm like :rolleyes: . This time he's getting some information from other sources. Not just his opinion. But maybe his sources are a bit like his?

Edit: Colin Cowherd today said on his show, The Herd, he called 2 NFL scouts last night to get their opinion on what Casserly said about Murray, and both scouts backed Casserly (like him or not) by saying what Casserly said was "not untrue".
Murray specifics aside, most of the talking heads are now *sshole sh*tbags. coward is a HUGE POS. Plus, the NFL insiders are *sshats too for "leaking" that info. Professionalism escaped them long ago. Murray didn't do the song and dance routine like their strip mall hooker so don't draft him, but don't be a chicken sh*t talking trash fourth hand.
You have a valid point I'd not considered. I mean, if I were Murray, how would I feel if negative content, even if true, of my interview were made public? And how would I feel about the insiders who interviewed me that leaked the information? Thanks for re-calibrating me.
 
Re: Re:

on3m@n@rmy said:
jmdirt said:
on3m@n@rmy said:
jmdirt said:
Casserly is an *sshole! He and most of his POS talking head brethren would rather bash some kid with worthless tabloid shi*t than actually tackle an issue with integrity and fortitude. You won't see them do any work on a difficult issue when they can hit soft targets 24/7. Quit filling space with adnauseam drivel and pretend like you enjoy (uinderstand) the sports that are paying your bills you ballless sh*tbags!
There is that :D. Usually when I see Casserly come up I'm like :rolleyes: . This time he's getting some information from other sources. Not just his opinion. But maybe his sources are a bit like his?

Edit: Colin Cowherd today said on his show, The Herd, he called 2 NFL scouts last night to get their opinion on what Casserly said about Murray, and both scouts backed Casserly (like him or not) by saying what Casserly said was "not untrue".
Murray specifics aside, most of the talking heads are now *sshole sh*tbags. coward is a HUGE POS. Plus, the NFL insiders are *sshats too for "leaking" that info. Professionalism escaped them long ago. Murray didn't do the song and dance routine like their strip mall hooker so don't draft him, but don't be a chicken sh*t talking trash fourth hand.
You have a valid point I'd not considered. I mean, if I were Murray, how would I feel if negative content, even if true, of my interview were made public? And how would I feel about the insiders who interviewed me that leaked the information? Thanks for re-calibrating me.
Now an NFL scout is saying that Murray cheated on his height measurement. Is Jerry Springer in charge of this circus now?! I know that 1/4 of an inch means something to the idiots, but in reality it means nothing about how well he will do in the NFL. Who cares if he wore thick socks! All of these POS who are leaking stuff should be required to be on an ESPN special "POS Weasels, Get Some B*alls" and defend their BS.

EDIT: Dan Patrick should be ashamed. He was a POS, improved, and now he is a POS again...all for $$.
 
Wilson & Brees have proven height around 5'10" to 6' does not matter. Tape does. I don't get at this point why someone's worried about 1/4 inch. Now in Murray's case he's also slight (~205 lbs at the combine, playing weight last year of ~195 lbs), and I'd be more concerned about that. How well he can withstand NFL punishment remains to be seen. I mean, Wilson is built like a LB and heftier at about 225.

Can the current crop of FA safties get paid? https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823777-will-nfl-safeties-actually-get-paid-in-free-agency-this-year
But it's also possible the position has been devalued as a result of modifications to the sport itself. Few would dispute that rule changes in recent years have made the game less physical, and safety is not usually a finesse position.

As hockey teams are losing the need for enforcers, football teams are understandably giving less priority to big-hitting defenders.
I think at least some of these FA safties, especially Earl Thomas, can still get paid because of his sideline-sideline speed, which still allows him to make big plays. Earl can deliver big hits, but his speed is one of his qualities that really makes him valuable.
 
jmdirt said:
Alpe d'Huez said:
on3m@n@rmy said:
That number is baffling to me. $250m to make payroll? When players entire annual salary is roughly $80k per year? The math doesn't add up. The entire combined salary of all AAF staff, players, coaches, more, can't be over about $50m per week. I'm not sure what other ancillary costs there are, but they can't be $200m, that seems impossible. Reading between the lines, my gut tells me that Tom Dundon, who owns the Hurricanes (NHL team) put up the money as an investment into the league, as they also named him the new chairman of the league. Yes, the league was probably at a financial bind at this point, but no way was it $250m deep, that just doesn't add up.

This begs the question, how long will that $250m last? Five weeks? To season's end?

Recall when the AAF was first announced, my initial concern was finances. I will have to find my old post, but I essentially said what killed other leagues, the XFL, WFL, even USFL (though the WFL and USFL were not league owned) was a lack of cash to last the long haul. The only way one of these minor league football teams is going to last is if they are prepared to come out of season one with a big loss-leader, tens of millions of dollars in the red - the inability to do this, and adversity to risk, is exactly what lead to a near panic run and killed the XFL. But this "long run" mentality must continue. The league must accept loss leaders perhaps in seasons 2, and 3 as well, and they must be both dynamic and aggressive in order to stem that tide and swing it. If they can do that, they can likely stick around a while, AFL style perhaps.

I'm very curious what happens next year IF the AAF survives, and the XFL (more flush with money...probably) returns. The two leagues could in theory merge, or one swallow the other in 2021 or so. Then there's the Freedom League, which seems even smaller than the AAF, but a similar model.

What may ultimately be needed is the dust to settle from these leagues, and then the NFL to make an investment in the league, somewhat financially, but really to "own" the league, promote it, let it piggyback on the NFL in a sense.
I could certainly see it being like baseball where NFL teams have 'farm' teams in the AAF.
Or something like farm teams. Per Bill Polian, co-founder and head of football in AAF, this makes sense: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823898-nfl-discussing-loaning-qbs-other-players-to-aaf-bill-polian-says
 
on3m@n@rmy said:
Wilson & Brees have proven height around 5'10" to 6' does not matter. Tape does. I don't get at this point why someone's worried about 1/4 inch. Now in Murray's case he's also slight (~205 lbs at the combine, playing weight last year of ~195 lbs), and I'd be more concerned about that. How well he can withstand NFL punishment remains to be seen. I mean, Wilson is built like a LB and heftier at about 225.

Can the current crop of FA safties get paid? https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823777-will-nfl-safeties-actually-get-paid-in-free-agency-this-year
But it's also possible the position has been devalued as a result of modifications to the sport itself. Few would dispute that rule changes in recent years have made the game less physical, and safety is not usually a finesse position.

As hockey teams are losing the need for enforcers, football teams are understandably giving less priority to big-hitting defenders.
I think at least some of these FA safties, especially Earl Thomas, can still get paid because of his sideline-sideline speed, which still allows him to make big plays. Earl can deliver big hits, but his speed is one of his qualities that really makes him valuable.
Wasn't Jackson only about 200-205 at the combine? I guess maybe it was less import (especially in hindsight) since he was being looked at as a back up. He's a starter now though.
 
on3m@n@rmy said:
jmdirt said:
Alpe d'Huez said:
on3m@n@rmy said:
That number is baffling to me. $250m to make payroll? When players entire annual salary is roughly $80k per year? The math doesn't add up. The entire combined salary of all AAF staff, players, coaches, more, can't be over about $50m per week. I'm not sure what other ancillary costs there are, but they can't be $200m, that seems impossible. Reading between the lines, my gut tells me that Tom Dundon, who owns the Hurricanes (NHL team) put up the money as an investment into the league, as they also named him the new chairman of the league. Yes, the league was probably at a financial bind at this point, but no way was it $250m deep, that just doesn't add up.

This begs the question, how long will that $250m last? Five weeks? To season's end?

Recall when the AAF was first announced, my initial concern was finances. I will have to find my old post, but I essentially said what killed other leagues, the XFL, WFL, even USFL (though the WFL and USFL were not league owned) was a lack of cash to last the long haul. The only way one of these minor league football teams is going to last is if they are prepared to come out of season one with a big loss-leader, tens of millions of dollars in the red - the inability to do this, and adversity to risk, is exactly what lead to a near panic run and killed the XFL. But this "long run" mentality must continue. The league must accept loss leaders perhaps in seasons 2, and 3 as well, and they must be both dynamic and aggressive in order to stem that tide and swing it. If they can do that, they can likely stick around a while, AFL style perhaps.

I'm very curious what happens next year IF the AAF survives, and the XFL (more flush with money...probably) returns. The two leagues could in theory merge, or one swallow the other in 2021 or so. Then there's the Freedom League, which seems even smaller than the AAF, but a similar model.

What may ultimately be needed is the dust to settle from these leagues, and then the NFL to make an investment in the league, somewhat financially, but really to "own" the league, promote it, let it piggyback on the NFL in a sense.
I could certainly see it being like baseball where NFL teams have 'farm' teams in the AAF.
Or something like farm teams. Per Bill Polian, co-founder and head of football in AAF, this makes sense: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823898-nfl-discussing-loaning-qbs-other-players-to-aaf-bill-polian-says
Interesting. Hockey does that in both directions. The Idaho Steelheads (ECHL) loan players up, get young guys ice time before heading up, and help injured players rehab back up. We had the Canadian HS player of the year here for a few games several years ago, but he moved up pretty quickly.
 
Lamar (6'2" tall) was 215 at the combine, and 212 now per the Ravens roster. Murray at what, 5'10" ish, and 205 lbs is not too far under that. He did bulk up for the combine, but could still add mass without losing speed or agility. But what kind of OL will he inherit?
 
It seems to be common now in the lead up to the draft to start blowing smoke in the direction of the top picks or some of the more contentious ones like Murray. Call it fake news or something else but teams are out to take advantage where they can. Murray seems to be copping it more than most : height, weight and character. all he needs now is domestic violence and drug rumors.............I think some of this is deliberately faked to effect the draft order.
 
Re:

movingtarget said:
It seems to be common now in the lead up to the draft to start blowing smoke in the direction of the top picks or some of the more contentious ones like Murray. Call it fake news or something else but teams are out to take advantage where they can. Murray seems to be copping it more than most : height, weight and character. all he needs now is domestic violence and drug rumors.............I think some of this is deliberately faked to effect the draft order.
I suspect that you are correct...which still makes me think that they are POS!
 

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