National Football League

[Unchained]

I could not have been the only one who found it a little spooky that Troy Aikman and partner mentioned that NFL was calling ineligible player downfield and the Chargers would almost do it on cue..

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Norv Turner was actually an excellent OC early in his career. Mostly for Dallas as their play caller during their first 2 SB rings. A perfect example of a guy who was destined to be an OC, and that didn't make him a good HC.

I wonder what Brady thinks watching the "tuck rule" play? He talks like he's never watched a game on a TV or online.

Sucks about Richardson.

I don't know if Chicago would be willing to dump Fields & roll the dice with Williams. Besides, I think Williams is overrated - much like Bryce Young is. ...

I see the Wilson-Payton combo back again in 2024 for another go at it. However, this will be it - no playoffs & both Payton & Wilson will be run out of town faster than you can say John Elway can't draft quarterbacks. Lol

I'm guessing you watched USC last week? Caleb threw several outright bad passes, caved under pressure, took too many sacks, forced the ball a lot, and looked like Bryce Young of the Panthers. But I don't see the hype on him (or Maye, really) letting up. You may well be right with Eberflus and Bieniemy. It's quite possible the Bears and Raiders will both start back-up QBs this week. Tyson Bagent for the Bears, and probably Aiden O'Connell for the Raiders.

I can't see Denver finishing 3-14 or so, and Denver bringing both Wilson and Payton back. Then again, when you look at Wilson's horrible nightmarish contract, and all that money and hype about Payton, maybe you're right. I can see no possible way on God's green earth Wilson somehow improves next year. They could possibly be the first team to go 0-17 in 2024, then win the Arch Manning sweepstakes. LOL!

And most important of all, these veteran backup QBs have got to play much better. Tyrod Taylor was terrible the other night. C'mon...man, how long has he been in the league now? Lol

He actually played better than Daniel Jones had been playing! And everyone thought Brian Drabol, coach of the year, had it all figured out and Jones and that offense dialed in.

With all these injuries, another reason to NOT extend the season. Or instead, move it back to 16 games. Or 14.

 

[Oldermanish]

I could not have been the only one who found it a little spooky that Troy Aikman and partner mentioned that NFL was calling ineligible player downfield and the Chargers would almost do it on cue..

Troy and others actually watch the movement on field and, as a QB would know what the crime was. He and Tony pick up sh*t quick.

 

[movingtarget]

https://www.nfl.com/news/jets-trading-wr-mecole-hardman-to-chiefs

 

[jmdirt]

I could not have been the only one who found it a little spooky that Troy Aikman and partner mentioned that NFL was calling ineligible player downfield and the Chargers would almost do it on cue..

I know that every year the officials have 'rules of emphasis', most of the time they are focused on safety and/or ways to make the O score more points/increase big plays. The emphasis on lineman downfield this year strange IMO. I don't see the safety issue, and if anything a lineman a few yards downfield will help them score/make big plays. Who on the rules committee wanted this?

 

[Potomac]

Norv Turner was actually an excellent OC early in his career. Mostly for Dallas as their play caller during their first 2 SB rings. A perfect example of a guy who was destined to be an OC, and that didn't make him a good HC.

I quite agree with about him being an excellent OC. After his HC stint with the Redskins I thought it was clear he should have long career as an OC....but teams kept hiring him for the head coaching spot.

 

[Potomac]

Now I'm gone crazy looking at head coach loss leaders, and yes Norv Turner has long been a punching bag for me.
However, was only 8 games below ..500 over a long career.
But check out these leaders in games below .500

Rk	Coach	Yrs	From	To	G	W	L	T	W-L%	G > .500 ▲
1	Marion Campbell	9	1974	1989	115	34	80	1	0.3	-46
2	John McKay	9	1976	1984	133	44	88	1	0.335	-44
3	Bert Bell+	6	1936	1941	58	10	46	2	0.179	-36
4	Dan Henning	7	1983	1991	112	38	73	1	0.344	-35
5	Gus Bradley	4	2013	2016	62	14	48	0	0.226	-34
6	Norm Van Brocklin+	13	1961	1974	173	66	100	7	0.398	-34
7	Hue Jackson	4	2011	2018	56	11	44	1	0.205	-33
8	David Shula	5	1992	1996	71	19	52	0	0.268	-33
9	Ray Perkins	8	1979	1990	117	42	75	0	0.359	-33
10	Joe Bugel	5	1990	1997	80	24	56	0	0.3	-32
11	Dom Capers	8	1995	2005	128	48	80	0	0.375	-32
12	Romeo Crennel	7	2005	2020	95	32	63	0	0.337	-31
13	Phil Handler	5	1943	1951	38	4	34	0	0.105	-30
14	Steve Spagnuolo	4	2009	2017	52	11	41	0	0.212	-30
15	Bruce Coslet	9	1990	2000	124	47	77	0	0.379	-30
16	Rod Marinelli	3	2006	2008	48	10	38	0	0.208	-28
17	Pat Shurmur	5	2011	2019	65	19	46	0	0.292	-27
18	Harland Svare	7	1962	1973	74	21	48	5	0.31	-27
19	Bill McPeak	5	1961	1965	70	21	46	3	0.313	-25
20	Walt Kiesling+	9	1939	1956	90	30	55	5	0.353	-25
21	Mike Nixon	3	1959	1965	38	6	30	2	0.167	-24
22	Jack Patera	7	1976	1982	94	35	59	0	0.372	-24
23	Lindy Infante	6	1988	1997	96	36	60	0	0.375	-24
24	Bart Starr+	9	1975	1983	131	52	76	3	0.408	-24
25	Dave McGinnis	4	2000	2003	57	17	40	0	0.298	-23
26	Dennis Allen	5	2012	2023	59	18	41	0	0.305	-23
27	Ken Whisenhunt	8	2007	2015	119	48	71	0	0.403	-23
28	Joe Kuharich	11	1952	1968	142	58	81	3	0.417	-23
29	Sam Wyche	12	1984	1995	191	84	107	0	0.44	-23
30	Norb Hecker	3	1966	1968	31	4	26	1	0.133	-22
31	Chris Palmer	2	1999	2000	32	5	27	0	0.156	-22
32	Marty Mornhinweg	2	2001	2002	32	5	27	0	0.156	-22
33	Jimmy Phelan	4	1948	1952	50	13	35	2	0.271	-22
34	Darryl Rogers	4	1985	1988	58	18	40	0	0.31	-22
35	Jim Schwartz	5	2009	2013	80	29	51	0	0.363	-22
36	Mike McCormack+	6	1973	1982	81	29	51	1	0.364	-22
37	Doug Marrone	7	2013	2020	98	38	60	0	0.388	-22
38	*** Jauron	10	1999	2009	142	60	82	0	0.423	-22
39	Harvey Johnson	2	1968	1971	26	2	23	1	0.08	-21
40	Bill Arnsparger	3	1974	1976	35	7	28	0	0.2	-21
41	*** LeBeau+	3	2000	2002	45	12	33	0	0.267	-21
42	Tom Fears+	4	1967	1970	49	13	34	2	0.277	-21
43	Mike Riley	3	1999	2001	48	14	34	0	0.292	-20
44	Herm Edwards	8	2001	2008	128	54	74	0	0.422	-20

 

[jmdirt]

This conversation, and others like it, remind me that other than a few notable HCs, I didn't used to really think much about coaches until recent years.

 

[Unchained]

I know that every year the officials have 'rules of emphasis', most of the time they are focused on safety and/or ways to make the O score more points/increase big plays. The emphasis on lineman downfield this year strange IMO. I don't see the safety issue, and if anything a lineman a few yards downfield will help them score/make big plays. Who on the rules committee wanted this?

Gotta say it's a favorite of mine when coaches call in to the officials that some monster of a man is going to be an eligible receiver and I also love when the huge lineman carry or catch the ball intentionally. When 300+ pound dudes go back in time to Pop Warner when they touched the ball.. Absolutely love it.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

No surprise the majority of those failed coaches are children of successful coaches (nepotism at its finest!), former OC's and DC's, and former star players. A few are college coaches who couldn't make it in the NFL.

To me Joe Buck and Troy Aikman are the best football commentator duo today. They do indeed pick stuff up quick, don't often make too many judgmental calls, and Aikman sticks to his job with succinct a analysis. Basically he's the exact opposite of Cris Collinsworth who will babble to no end about made-up nonsense because he's the "expert". Collinsworth is so bad I'll either listen to the radio broadcast, or listen in Spanish (nope, not fluent). My next favorite commentators are Kenny Albert and Jonathan Vilma. Vilma was fairly stiff when he got started (2 years ago?) but is quite good now. I'm "okay" on Tony Romo. I don't revere, nor detest him, like others.

People are making a bigger deal of Hardman going to the Chiefs than it really is. It's because the Chiefs have average receivers perhaps. But Mahomes isn't going to turn him into Tyreek Hill.

Jaguars on a bit of a roll (thanks London!) off to the Saints tonight.

 

[Unchained]

Dick Jauron - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Forgot about him until I saw the list..and thank God 1 Shula was a winner!!!

 

[Unchained]

No surprise the majority of those failed coaches are children of successful coaches (nepotism at its finest!), former OC's and DC's, and former star players. A few are college coaches who couldn't make it in the NFL.

To me Joe Buck and Troy Aikman are the best football commentator duo today. They do indeed pick stuff up quick, don't often make too many judgmental calls, and Aikman sticks to his job with succinct a analysis. Basically he's the exact opposite of Cris Collinsworth who will babble to no end about made-up nonsense because he's the "expert". Collinsworth is so bad I'll either listen to the radio broadcast, or listen in Spanish (nope, not fluent). My next favorite commentators are Kenny Albert and Jonathan Vilma. Vilma was fairly stiff when he got started (2 years ago?) but is quite good now. I'm "okay" on Tony Romo. I don't revere, nor detest him, like others.

People are making a bigger deal of Hardman going to the Chiefs than it really is. It's because the Chiefs have average receivers perhaps. But Mahomes isn't going to turn him into Tyreek Hill.

Jaguars on a bit of a roll (thanks London!) off to the Saints tonight.

Buck and Aikman head and shoulders above the rest

 

[jmdirt]

No surprise the majority of those failed coaches are children of successful coaches (nepotism at its finest!), former OC's and DC's, and former star players. A few are college coaches who couldn't make it in the NFL.

To me Joe Buck and Troy Aikman are the best football commentator duo today. They do indeed pick stuff up quick, don't often make too many judgmental calls, and Aikman sticks to his job with succinct a analysis. Basically he's the exact opposite of Cris Collinsworth who will babble to no end about made-up nonsense because he's the "expert". Collinsworth is so bad I'll either listen to the radio broadcast, or listen in Spanish (nope, not fluent). My next favorite commentators are Kenny Albert and Jonathan Vilma. Vilma was fairly stiff when he got started (2 years ago?) but is quite good now. I'm "okay" on Tony Romo. I don't revere, nor detest him, like others.

People are making a bigger deal of Hardman going to the Chiefs than it really is. It's because the Chiefs have average receivers perhaps. But Mahomes isn't going to turn him into Tyreek Hill.

Jaguars on a bit of a roll (thanks London!) off to the Saints tonight.

I used to be OK with Collinsworth, but he's getting (way) worse. I'm liking Greg Olsen this year (he's a but quirky, but in a good way). I like Romo more now than when everyone was praising his clairvoyance. Troy and Joe are the best IMO too.

Hardman should be a good (re)addition, but KC needs to figure out how to replace the production of Smith-Schuster. Watson may come alive/continue to improve.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Gotta say it's a favorite of mine when coaches call in to the officials that some monster of a man is going to be an eligible receiver and I also love when the huge lineman carry or catch the ball intentionally. When 300+ pound dudes go back in time to Pop Warner when they touched the ball.. Absolutely love it.

Ravens should have declined the ineligible man downfield penalty last year when the Dolphins olineman scored while getting flipped head over heels.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Ravens should have declined the ineligible man downfield penalty last year when the Dolphins olineman scored while getting flipped head over heels.

For reference and from 2 seasons ago.

View: https://youtu.be/S8w04u8AApE?si=ZYiMuU1oOa1md_V_

 

[Nomad]

I can't see Denver finishing 3-14 or so, and Denver bringing both Wilson and Payton back. Then again, when you look at Wilson's horrible nightmarish contract, and all that money and hype about Payton, maybe you're right. I can see no possible way on God's green earth Wilson somehow improves next year. They could possibly be the first team to go 0-17 in 2024, then win the Arch Manning sweepstakes. LOL!

The Broncos believe they can it turn it around - they haven't given up on the season...yet. They've got GB & KC at home before the bye. GB is definitely winnable while KC, obviously, is not. Coming out of the bye, they've got a pretty tough schedule with only a couple of lightweights remaining.

I imagine when it gets to the point where they're eliminated from post-season, they'll capitulate & write off the season (you'll probsbly see more backups & rookies start, and maybe even Wilson will be shut down toward the end of season with Stidham getting a couple of starts).

Assuming they don't turn it around - regardless of their finishing record - I'm sure Payton will be given another year. And TBH, 2 yrs is fair for a HC to try & turn around a dying franchise. And like I said before, Wilson has status - so he controls his destiny. He'll be back next year unless he wants traded or decides he's had enough & retires.

 

[movingtarget]

The Broncos believe they can it turn it around - they haven't given up on the season...yet. They've got GB & KC at home before the bye. GB is definitely winnable while KC, obviously, is not. Coming out of the bye, they've got a pretty tough schedule with only a couple of lightweights remaining.

I imagine when it gets to the point where they're eliminated from post-season, they'll capitulate & write off the season (you'll probsbly see more backups & rookies start, and maybe even Wilson will be shut down toward the end of season with Stidham getting a couple of starts).

Assuming they don't turn it around - regardless of their finishing record - I'm sure Payton will be given another year. And TBH, 2 yrs is fair for a HC to try & turn around a dying franchise. And like I said before, Wilson has status - so he controls his destiny. He'll be back next year unless he wants traded or decides he's had enough & retires.

I expected Chip Kelly to get another year at the 49ers but he didn't. The 49ers opted for the clean out and started fresh with an untried GM and head coach. So far, it's worked. Their worst years were caused by long term injuries to key players and all coaches have to go through that.

At least Payton is smart enough to have stopped with the yip yap about other coaches...............many people expect Denver to be active before the trade cut off and they do have a few non performers they could move on .

 

[movingtarget]

I used to be OK with Collinsworth, but he's getting (way) worse. I'm liking Greg Olsen this year (he's a but quirky, but in a good way). I like Romo more now than when everyone was praising his clairvoyance. Troy and Joe are the best IMO too.

Hardman should be a good (re)addition, but KC needs to figure out how to replace the production of Smith-Schuster. Watson may come alive/continue to improve.

Mark Sanchex and Greg Olsen have been annoying me more than usual and Colinsworth can't seem to stop talking about everything but the game he's supposed to be commentating on. Was never a big fan of Romo but he's not as irritating as some of the others.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Hey, hey, hey! It's Fat Albert!

Thats what I think of every time I see a huge lineman running with the ball. It is always painful when that guy gets the ball, and is stopped just before he gets to the goal line, or worse, fumbles.

Dick Juron. Had forgot about him too. Looking at that link several more names pop up with coaches who were impressive coordinators or players, and less than average HCs, which got me doing some research. Dave Wannstadt, Steve Mariucci, Todd Bowles recently. Josh McDaniels may be soon added to that list. Marty Morhinwig and Rod Marinelli come to mind as top coordinators who had disastrous HC tenures. Let's also not forget that Buddy Ryan was a HC, twice! Not to mention his good friend, Kevin Gilbride.

But to be fair, one often has to look at the team they are trying to win with. Players make the team more than the coach. Especially QBs, and the OL and DL. Steve Wilkes was a top DC and other defensive position coach for years when the Cardinals hired him as HC and he was terrible there. But he didn't have the players either. However, when Carolina was 1-5, lousy team looking to tank, with his leadership and discipline got them to almost winning that division. 49ers were lucky to get him as their DC this year. Their former DC, DeMeco Ryans is doing an impressive job in Houston this year (a team he played for years ago), his first stint as HC, with a lot of young players on a team everyone had long ago given up on.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Jags pull out the win despite the two fumbles with one caused by running into their returner and looking like they were going to beat the snot out of the Saints. Saints came back to make it tight going against a tired defense and Moreau let the potential game tying score go off his hands when he was wide open. This is one of the first times I’ve seen Carr play and I can see how those say he can be very feisty.

 

[movingtarget]

Carr had his usual game. Two steps forward and one back. His second lastt throw was perfect but a horrible drop from the TE put a stop to the comeback.Lawrence's ability to scramble is a handy weapon. He's not slow. Pretty entertaining game. Jags hired the right coach it seems.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Both Carr and Moreau came over from the Raiders. Moreau has always been known as a TE who can block out the sun, and in fact, he made a fantastic block about 7 plays before the dropped pass.

Carr can definitely make one pull their hair out. Impressive throws, and high risk throws, sometimes in the same drive.

 

[Nomad]

I expected Chip Kelly to get another year at the 49ers but he didn't. The 49ers opted for the clean out and started fresh with an untried GM and head coach. So far, it's worked. Their worst years were caused by long term injuries to key players and all coaches have to go through that.

At least Payton is smart enough to have stopped with the yip yap about other coaches...............many people expect Denver to be active before the trade cut off and they do have a few non performers they could move on .

That was strange that Kelly didn't get another year at SF considering that 3 yrs earlier at Philly, where he was 26-21 with a divisional title & playoff appearance.

Even if the Broncos didn't win another game & finished 1-16, I don't think Payton would get fired. Working in his favor is that he's a SB winning coach with a winning percentage of .631 over 15 seasons at NO.

That being said anything is possible these days. Owners seem to be fickle - coaches that seem to be on the chopping block get another year while some coaches who had a decent year win wise but missed the playoffs get the boot. Lol

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Even if the Broncos didn't win another game & finished 1-16, I don't think Payton would get fired. Working in his favor is that he's a SB winning coach with a winning percentage of .631 over 15 seasons at NO.

Thanks Drew!

Payton is (so far) 10-13 without Drew Brees. Or one could look at it saying he's 10-13 with a washed-up Russell Wilson, an often injured Jamis Winston, Trevor Siemian, Ian Book (who?) and a tight end playing QB at times (Taysom Hill), on two teams with serious cap and dead money issues.

I too will be surprised if they can him. But as you said here, and posts ago, some owners can get really impatient, and Denver could just blame him for the losses, since they are so horribly indebted to Russell Wilson, and chalk his firing up to a failed experiment, and maybe lure someone like Jim Harbaugh, or hire Lions OC Ben Johnson, or Eric Bieniemy, or Jon Gruden, saying they need to go in a "new direction", blah, blah, and that QB wizard coach will finally fix Wilson. You never know.

Good article on Bleacher Report about how every year through 2028 is a financial/cap disaster for cutting, or trading Wilson (to a team that could eat his contract), after the 2024 season may be the most "painless".

ESPN reporting that he's on the verge of being benched for Stidham. They're basically paying Wilson an absurd amount of money to lose every week. Why bother even playing him?

 

[Nomad]

And they're not paying other QBs absurd amounts of money to lose - even if they can get back on the field from injuries? Lol. Two that come to mind that are right up there with Wilson are Murray & Watson. Look at the dough they're making and you tell me what have they done lately?

Weiterleitungshinweis

Perhaps Payton is on the verge of benching Wilson. I think this GB game is pivotal - they lose and Wilson plays poorly - you might see the unprecedented benching of Wilson (and he'll surely be pissed off enough to hightail it out of here after season).

I'm hoping for a good game & Bronco victory Sunday. However, this may end up being a boring game & just a pillow fight between two underachieving ball clubs. Lol.