National Football League

[on3m@n@rmy]

Alpe, you took the words right out of my mouth regarding the Browns situation with Taylor, drafting a QB, Landry, and drafting a running back named Barkley. Plus this is a deep draft at running back.

Not surprised Richard Sherman was picked up so quickly. I will miss him in Seattle because he was one of my favorite players there. Now let the smack talk begin. If he has to cover Seattle's number one wideout Doug Baldwin no way he can stick with Doug. Doug be nimble, Doug be quick, Doug jump over a candlestick. :lol:

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

As I read it, only $11m of it is guaranteed. Some of the bonuses are easier to attain than others. I think if he can keep healthy, let's just say he plays 12 games a year as a starter, and plays at an above average level for CB, the 49ers got the slightly better end of the deal.

Adam Schein of NFL.com listed his riskiest free agents, and no surprise, three of them are QBs for the Vikings. Here's his list.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000920197/article/sam-bradford-tyler-eifert-head-nfls-riskiest-free-agents-of-2018

Speaking of the Vikings, if they get rid of all three of those guys, and I don't think they'd have to do much more maneuvering, they could sign Kirk Cousins. If you were Kirk, would anything keep you from going to Minnesota? Think about it, if Case Keenum can have a near Pro Bowl year on that team, and with how stacked and loaded with talent the Vikings are on both sides of the ball, I'd rather play there the next three years than the Broncos, Jets, Cardinals, Bills, etc. But Mike Zimmer is a defensive minded QB, and the Viks may not want to cough up the $100m contract it will likely take to get him.

Pretty rare situation for the Vikings to be in with QBs on tap ! Whoever they select will do well but I have to admit that Keenum surprised me last season. I have real doubts that the Vikings will want Cousins or be willing to pay him so much. Heard rumors that Cousins did not want to go to Denver so I still think that both of the New York teams will be interested but Cousins may want to go to a team coming off a good season. The Bills may also have a shot and just lost Taylor. Who knows ? Some people still seem to think that the Browns could be the best place for him to go with plenty of young talent to build on but I have my doubts. That success could be still a fair way off even though teams like the Rams and Jags had good turnarounds last season, neither team was in the position the Browns have been in for the past few seasons. The interesting thing re Cousins is that he would have ended up almost certainly at the 49ers if Jimmy wasn't traded. All the talk was about Cousins reuniting with Shanahan and Cousins may be a bit miffed noting the contract that Jimmy managed to obtain.

 

[jmdirt]

Keenum to DEN: For the money that's good for DEN. Overall it could be a good fit. Min must think that '17 was CK's best and that he can't do it again. I hope that TB/SB have a good year otherwise this move is bad (I think its bad).

Suh to SEA?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re:

Keenum to DEN: For the money that's good for DEN. Overall it could be a good fit. Min must think that '17 was CK's best and that he can't do it again. I hope that TB/SB have a good year otherwise this move is bad (I think its bad).

Suh to SEA?

IMO no way Suh goes to Seattle, who I don't think will even invite him in for a visit. Especially not after Seattle just cleared out about $20M or so in cap space by letting Bennett and Sherman go. Seattle also has some young (inexpensive) interior DL guys or could draft one. They also might re-sign Richardson, who like Bennett plays both DE and DT positions, whereas Suh is just an interior guy. I think Seattle is more likely to spend the money cleared on the OL, where Seattle's LT Duane Brown is a free agent. I cannot believe Seattle will let Brown go, who really played well after Seattle acquired him from Houston in the last half of the season.

Demarco to Seattle? Seattle is bringing Demarco Murray in for a visit. Also they had Jonathan Stewart in. Now, Seattle has a first round draft pick, but after that they don't pick again until round 5. So even though the draft is deep at RB, I think it is more likely Seattle signs a free agent RB like Murray over Suh.

As for Keenum, I'd be surprised if Denver thinks he is a long-term solution. So what is their long-term plan?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Looks like Captain Kirk to the Vikings for 86 million over 3 years.
EDIT: F U L L Y GUARANTEED.

Seattle LT Duane Brown wants to clear the rumors about Pete Carroll:
http://sports.mynorthwest.com/42319...eahawks-theory/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

[jmdirt]

Looks like Captain Kirk to the Vikings for 86 million over 3 years.
EDIT: F U L L Y GUARANTEED.

Seattle LT Duane Brown wants to clear the rumors about Pete Carroll:
http://sports.mynorthwest.com/42319...eahawks-theory/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

That's a good contract for him, and explains why CK was cut loose. So SB and TB?

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

Keenum to DEN: For the money that's good for DEN. Overall it could be a good fit. Min must think that '17 was CK's best and that he can't do it again. I hope that TB/SB have a good year otherwise this move is bad (I think its bad).

Suh to SEA?

IMO no way Suh goes to Seattle, who I don't think will even invite him in for a visit. Especially not after Seattle just cleared out about $20M or so in cap space by letting Bennett and Sherman go. Seattle also has some young (inexpensive) interior DL guys or could draft one. They also might re-sign Richardson, who like Bennett plays both DE and DT positions, whereas Suh is just an interior guy. I think Seattle is more likely to spend the money cleared on the OL, where Seattle's LT Duane Brown is a free agent. I cannot believe Seattle will let Brown go, who really played well after Seattle acquired him from Houston in the last half of the season.

Demarco to Seattle? Seattle is bringing Demarco Murray in for a visit. Also they had Jonathan Stewart in. Now, Seattle has a first round draft pick, but after that they don't pick again until round 5. So even though the draft is deep at RB, I think it is more likely Seattle signs a free agent RB like Murray over Suh.

As for Keenum, I'd be surprised if Denver thinks he is a long-term solution. So what is their long-term plan?

I'd like to see DM is SEA! Yeh, Suh too expensive.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Looks like Captain Kirk to the Vikings for 86 million over 3 years.
EDIT: F U L L Y GUARANTEED.

Seattle LT Duane Brown wants to clear the rumors about Pete Carroll:
http://sports.mynorthwest.com/42319...eahawks-theory/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

That's a good contract for him, and explains why CK was cut loose. So SB and TB?

Well I am hearing Bridgewater may go to the Jets. But Bradford? I don't know. Really don't know who would take brittle Bradford. Maybe Cincinnati in place of McCarron, maybe Arizona? Or maybe the Viks simply keep him?

 

[movingtarget]

Looks like Captain Kirk to the Vikings for 86 million over 3 years.
EDIT: F U L L Y GUARANTEED.

Seattle LT Duane Brown wants to clear the rumors about Pete Carroll:
http://sports.mynorthwest.com/42319...eahawks-theory/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

That's a good contract for him, and explains why CK was cut loose. So SB and TB?

Have to say I'm surprised. I don't think he is any better than the existing QBs at the Vikings. Of course the injury to Bridgewater will be a concern for some.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Well there it is - Bradford to the Cards.
https://twitter.com/PSchrags/status/973626677795479552?s=19

 

[movingtarget]

Well there it is - Bradford to the Cards.
https://twitter.com/PSchrags/status/973626677795479552?s=19

Bridgewater to go. Good move for Bradford I think but they are another team that are going to have make some good picks to be be a playoff team.

 

[Gigs_98]

As a Vikings fan this feels strange. I like Cousins but I also really liked the other 3 qb's the vikings had. Is it worth spending so much more money for a qb who isn't much better than their existing ones. I think the vikings must be massively concerned about Bridgewaters health otherwise this is a really strange move.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Cousins is more durable, by far, than either Bridgewater or Bradford. Is he better than Keenum? Yes, he is. Twice as good? That I'm not so sure.

I think Arizona is a good landing spot for Sam, especially as they are essentially rebuilding, new coach and all. But if Minnesota overpaid for Kirk, I think the Cards really did for Sam.

As an interesting note, both Bradford and Cousins have walked away with two of the wealthiest QBs in recent times if you look it up.

Bridgewater's deal is only for 1 year, so there's obviously a lot of concern around his health.

Graham to GB and Jordy Nelson cut are both interesting moves by GB.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re:

Cousins is more durable, by far, than either Bridgewater or Bradford. Is he better than Keenum? Yes, he is. Twice as good? That I'm not so sure.

I think Arizona is a good landing spot for Sam, especially as they are essentially rebuilding, new coach and all. But if Minnesota overpaid for Kirk, I think the Cards really did for Sam.

As an interesting note, both Bradford and Cousins have walked away with two of the wealthiest QBs in recent times if you look it up.

Bridgewater's deal is only for 1 year, so there's obviously a lot of concern around his health.

Graham to GB and Jordy Nelson cut are both interesting moves by GB.

I believe GB was trying to free up salary cap by cutting Nelson. GB will probably use Graham better in the passing game than Seattle did, who needed him to block. But when Seattle acquired Graham they knew Jimmy was an awful blocker, and he never developed that skill one iota in Seattle. His blocking still sucks. Remember Seattle gave up good center Max Unger, who is still playing at a high level. That was a bad trade by Seattle.

The fair weather in Arizona fits Sam well.

Kirk Cousins got a 3-year deal. Lets see. 2018 - 2019 - 2020, and the CBA expires about then or in 2021, right? Sports editor Peter King of SI and MMQB thinks that was deliberate on Kirk's part, because Peter thinks the players are going to head into 2021 asking for a LOT more.

The fact that Bradford and Cousins ($86M, 3 years, fully guaranteed = nearly $29M/yr) are not only ridiculously overpaid when they are not even top 10 QBs (Brees just got 2 more years @ $25M/yr, Wilson is around $18M, Brady is what (?) $14M) makes me wanna chunky-puke. I know those dollars quoted are not exactly correct, but I think they are in the ballpark. I've been a football junky most of my life, but I may have to go on a diet and cut out the NFL's fatty intake. We'll see. EDIT- I'M NOT OFF TO A GOOD START.

 

[jmdirt]

The more I think about it, the less I like what MIN did. I guess we'll see how it plays out. Imagine if CK lights it up in DEN and KC doesn't in MIN!

I'd like to see Nelson land in SEA, and I'm glad to see Graham go. The $$ wouldn't align to make the trade work, but maybe they can structure/wiggle a deal this week. It seems like there were two solid TE in the NCAA this year, but I'm completely wiffing on who they are (was one of them at O with Mayfield?). If they can get one of them in the 2nd or 3rd round that would make more sense cap wise.

EDIT: CLE might have signed Hyde so I'm backing away from them taking SB near the top, but they should still get him if they can. Mayfield with their first pick?

I'm with you om3! I'm really struggling to accept the money players are making, but especially players who aren't worthy at the comparative level. I would actually LOVE to see the cap reduced, and or solidified to reduce legal fudging (even though I know that won't happen). I don't live in a tax base that pays for pro teams, nor do I buy merch, but it still just bothers me.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Also glad here Graham is gone. Would love to see Nelson in Seattle if they can swing it. BTW, Nelson and Sefferian-Jenkins are both to visit Seattle. Nelson also plans to visit the Saints and Raiders. Seattle also lost speedster Paul Richardson ($40M/5 years) to Washington. In the Bennett trade, Seattle got speedy WR Marcus Johnson (4.39 40 us dash) in return. But Johnson was mostly a special-teamer.

As for Minnesota, I am still stinging from their signing of Hutchinson. So that's a clue to how I hope it plays out.

Back to Bradford, I just learned he has a degenerative knee condition, meaning it is just going to get worse. Arizona needs to do something more at QB. Next year is a bad QB year, and this year they have the 15th overall pick. Will they trade up this year to draft a QB?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I remember the splash when Graham was aquired, "Wow! The Seahawks got Jimmy Graham!!!" headlines read. But anyone who knew the sport read the finer print, and losing Unger was huge. In retrospect, as you both say, a bad deal for Seattle.

My only quibble about the money is that it's insane everywhere. But the reality is the owners are charging what the market will bear, customers (fans) are buying, and the players are doing the actual physical work, so I'm glad they're making a lot of money and it's not all going to the owners. My hope is someday in the future some of the money going to players is spread more evenly, and distrubted more into pensions and health care funds for players after their career is over. It just makes so much more sense to me to see someone like Cousins make $10m a year, and be able to sock a really nice amount away for the rest of his life, including paying the medical bills to take care of his body when he's, say, 50 and older. Not to mention taking care of those around him.

Fins cut Suh. Where will he land?

Tyrann Mathieu cut as well. This had to do with cap space, and he'll get signed elsehwere.

Nate Solder signs a huge deal for NYG making him the highest paid lineman in the NFL. I'm not sure about this one. He was maybe the best OT in the league three years ago, then he tore his bicep, and he's been "very good" ever since. But a $62m deal, to protect an aging Eli, and a rookie for a couple years before Nate probably hangs it up? That's a lot of money.

Joe Thomas announced his retirement. That leaves a hole in the left side of Cleveland's improving OL. But I can see why they didn't try to grab Solder. That's just too much to pay for a team in transition.

Patrick Robinson back to New Orleans, which is interesting because they already have a fairly young, talented secondary. It also comes right after Butler was signed by Tennessee. Robinson played in NO before going to Philly. Saints could be qutie good next year. Does Brees still have it? He looked plenty good last year.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Cowboys are interested in Suh. So are Seahawks, but as I said above, if Seattle is going to help the offense they are going to have to save money and not blow it all on defenders. Suh will likely cost way too much. Maybe the Viks, Saints, Bucs, Raiders, or even Cleveland (but doubt Cle).

It's a matter of supply and demand for teams needing LTs, same as QB. So there will be some over-paying going on for LTs. Not many LTs in the draft either but there are some [McGlinchey (ND), Miller (UCLA), Wynn (Georgia)]. But because Browns Thomas retired, now maybe the Browns target a LT not with their first pick, but maybe their second - instead of Saquon Barkley, since it is a deep draft for RBs.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

The more I think about it, the less I like what MIN did. I guess we'll see how it plays out. Imagine if CK lights it up in DEN and KC doesn't in MIN!

I'd like to see Nelson land in SEA, and I'm glad to see Graham go. The $$ wouldn't align to make the trade work, but maybe they can structure/wiggle a deal this week. It seems like there were two solid TE in the NCAA this year, but I'm completely wiffing on who they are (was one of them at O with Mayfield?). If they can get one of them in the 2nd or 3rd round that would make more sense cap wise.

EDIT: CLE might have signed Hyde so I'm backing away from them taking SB near the top, but they should still get him if they can. Mayfield with their first pick?

I'm with you om3! I'm really struggling to accept the money players are making, but especially players who aren't worthy at the comparative level. I would actually LOVE to see the cap reduced, and or solidified to reduce legal fudging (even though I know that won't happen). I don't live in a tax base that pays for pro teams, nor do I buy merch, but it still just bothers me.

A lot of 49ers fans are torn about Shanahan not wanting Carlos Hyde but it seems that he wants someone more versatile. Carlos had a pretty good season but was dropping a few balls as a receiver. He's more of a Frank Gore type player and the 49ers just signed a faster RB in Jerick McKinnon from the Vikings but is he in the same class as Carlos Hyde ? Probably not but a better scheme fit for Shanahan who seems to be all about speed and still has Joe Williams and Breida at RB. I still think the 49ers will take a tall WR to mix it up. There were rumors about Jimmy Graham but he's gone elsewhere.

 

[movingtarget]

As a Vikings fan this feels strange. I like Cousins but I also really liked the other 3 qb's the vikings had. Is it worth spending so much more money for a qb who isn't much better than their existing ones. I think the vikings must be massively concerned about Bridgewaters health otherwise this is a really strange move.

I think Bridgewater like Andrew Luck is possibly heading for early retirement. Bridgewater's time out of the game gives a good indication of how bad his injury was. It's a real shame as he was playing so well.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

According to a Jets fan I know, he's only going to be the back-up to McCown this year, but ready to play if Josh gets hurt, and maybe if plays well, they'll think about him going into 2019 and beyond. I also wonder about Teddy's ability to actually move well, or take a hit. I recall them describing the injry and saying it wasn't a normal ACL tear or knee dislocation. It was the type of injury you often see in car accidents, where the knee is completely stretched apart and twisted, and a lot of trama is done to nearly all the ligiments, muscles and other tissue around the knee. Yikes. But this will basically be well over two years away from the sport by the time he gets full contact. That could help, or not.

Luck sure remains a mystery. I have a real feeling that even the Indy staff doesn't know how well he's going to be able to throw until all his injuries have healed, and he starts to really throw with velocity. Like I said before, my fear is he's the next Chad Pennington. He just won't have the arm strength, or motion he once did. We'll see.

Speaking of arm strength, the numbers were released from the combine on velocity. Josh Allen had the strongest arm at a whopping 62mph, and Sam Darnod (probalby pretty strong) didn't throw. Here's the numbers (I didn't list everyone, nor all throws, just highest, or average from what is known).

Josh Allen - Wyoming - 62
Kurt Benkert - Virginia - 56
Lamar Jackson - Louisville - 49
Kyle Lauletta - Richmond - 52
Tanner Lee - Nebraska - 57
Baker Mayfield - Oklahoma - 60
Josh Rosen - UCLA - 58
Mason Rudolph - Oklahoma State - 52
Nic Shimonek - Texas Tech - 55
Mike White - Western Kentucky - 54

One surprise to me was Mayfield. I didn't think he could throw that hard. The real surprise though is Lamar Jackson at only 49mph. Usualy if you're not at 55 or so, you're not going to make it in the NFL. Then again, last year Deshaun Watson only threw 49mph, but by the time he got to the NFL, that looked like an anomaly and he has plenty of arm strength.

Edit - Allen's throws were the fastest recorded I could find. I seem to recall Foxxy saying a few other guys threw at least 60 maybe one at 62. Logan Thomas was the only one I could find at 60. I found an article that said Aaron Rodgers threw the ball at 60mph. I seem to recall an NFL game where they clocked Kaepernick's throw at 60mph. But 62? Jim Druckenmiller maybe? Did they ever clock a young Favre? Elway? Marino? Jeff George? Either way, that's a serious cannon of an arm Josh Allen has.

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2017/03/16/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/

 

[Tonton]

Mahomes threw at 60mph IIRC, and 62 at his pro day. And in a vid on YouTube as well.

Glad for Kirk, a nice guy. I was around him at training camp everyday the past couple of years. A great guy, smart, humble yet having his presence felt.

Nelson with the Raiders, Keenum with the Broncos...meh...Chiefs rule .

Denver will draft a QB, let him learn from an experienced pro. Keenum with Cleveland in one or two years .

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Nah, Mahomes was "only" at 55mph at the combine, per the link above. The 62mph was on NFL Total Access, where he was wearing a dress shirt, tie and wire. So it's hard to tell what's really real, but the fact is, he does have an excellent arm. I don't know if he was clocked on his pro day, or if he was at all. Dane Bulger tweeted incorrect numbers from past Combines showing Mahomes at 60 mph, he had other incorrect numbers as well, so I'm wondering what his source is (he doesn't say), or that's not from the actual Combine. The link I gave from Ourlads are the official numbers to both throws QB's officially made at their Combine. Here's the NFL Total Access clip.

http://www.stack.com/a/watch-patrick-mahomes-throw-a-football-62-mph

Okay, some further digging. This is Bejnamin Albright's spreadsheet that shows numerous numbers from either Combine or Pro Day. He has Mahomes at 60, so I'm guessing that is indeed the accurate number from his pro day.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_-SienfT3umX0HKxRyQqyXM9BqHrotdcQA6W-V_pDiY/edit#gid=156597622

Ryan Flaherty said that Josh Allen could throw a football 66-67mph,maybe 70mph, which would be absurd. He also says Allen can throw the ball 80 yards in the air, and will do so at his pro day. From what I can tell, Aaron Rodgers heaved a hail mary about 68 yards in the air, and Kordell Stewart did similar. I found another link where Mahomes said he had thrown a ball (or could) 70 yards in practice with a tailwind. So for Allen to heave the thing 80 yards, unless he has a hurricane behind him, would be impossible.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/qb-guru-thinks-josh-allen-is-going-to-absolutely-smash-one-nfl-combine-record/

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Velocity data is nice to know but secondary in my opinion. Accuracy is everything. Baker Mayfield may be the most accurate passer in this group of draftees.

Now this is kind of old news already but significant:
In a tweet by Ian Rapoport about the Jets trading up with the Colts from number 6 overall to number 3 overall)

The #Jets explored all options for this trade... including possibly going up to No. 1. In the end, they settled on No. 3 (overall, previously owned by the Colts). ... Meanwhile, the #Colts fielded calls from other QB-needy teams, but felt good about moving to No. 6 and dealing with the #Jets.

This is a great move by the Jets and a great one for the Colts as well. Both teams must have listened to Colin Cowherd who said this week that Arizona should have done what the Jets did. Maybe Arizona was one of those teams who tried but failed.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Anyone doubting Baker Mayfield should watch this 8 episode docu-series about him over a three-month time. Here is the trailer http://videos-f.jwpsrv.com/content/...6b_0xae7d8d21cccbf558415aefbbbb8b92120e93d2ce
Not a lot of history in the NFL of under 6 foot QBs doing well? Drew Brees changed how teams look at these guys I think.
http://behindbaker.com/