Tark was the first short guy I remember. Flutie was the first who created a lot of buz for being short (5'9"?), but Brees has been the reference for (the few) short QBs. Wilson is obviously flying that flag well too. There's no reason that Mayfield can't be as good as Brees and Wilson.on3m@n@rmy said:
-
The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to
In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.
Thanks!
When did 6'1" become "short"? Not aimed at anyone here, just the blogosphere.
It's not only Russell Wilson and Drew Brees, but historically you can find a heap of great QBs that were under 6'. Fran Tarkentan, Sonny Jurgenson. But Mayfield is actually 6'1". Yeah, Nick Foles is 6' 6". Joe Flacco 6'5". But let's look at some other QBs. Did you know that...
Tyrod Taylor is only 6'1" too? I don't seem to recall that much hubbub when he came into the league.
Aaron Rodgers is only 6'2", a scant inch taller than Mayfield.
Brian Hoyer is 6'2" also. Height was never his problem, never affected his accuracy or decision making, did it?
Andy Dalton is only 6'2". As is Mitch Trubisky, Teddy Bridgewater, Ryan Fitzpatrick, many others.
Is that 1" height difference between all these successful QB's and Mayfield a big deal? For some coaches, maybe it is. After all, we do say it's a game of inches, right?!
Some digging I found that Hue Jackson said 6'2" is the minimum, when he was talking about the Browns possibly drafting Trubisky last season. So can we say for certain that no matter what, the Browns won't draft Mayfield, based on this one inch?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/browns/2017/03/02/mitch-trubisky-height-scouting-combine-hue-jackson-cleveland/98629686/
It's not only Russell Wilson and Drew Brees, but historically you can find a heap of great QBs that were under 6'. Fran Tarkentan, Sonny Jurgenson. But Mayfield is actually 6'1". Yeah, Nick Foles is 6' 6". Joe Flacco 6'5". But let's look at some other QBs. Did you know that...
Tyrod Taylor is only 6'1" too? I don't seem to recall that much hubbub when he came into the league.
Aaron Rodgers is only 6'2", a scant inch taller than Mayfield.
Brian Hoyer is 6'2" also. Height was never his problem, never affected his accuracy or decision making, did it?
Andy Dalton is only 6'2". As is Mitch Trubisky, Teddy Bridgewater, Ryan Fitzpatrick, many others.
Is that 1" height difference between all these successful QB's and Mayfield a big deal? For some coaches, maybe it is. After all, we do say it's a game of inches, right?!
Some digging I found that Hue Jackson said 6'2" is the minimum, when he was talking about the Browns possibly drafting Trubisky last season. So can we say for certain that no matter what, the Browns won't draft Mayfield, based on this one inch?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/browns/2017/03/02/mitch-trubisky-height-scouting-combine-hue-jackson-cleveland/98629686/
Crazy stuff here in Bronco land: Keenum signed to a 2 yr deal worth 36 mil, that's 18 mil a year! - as much as Manning was making on his contract a few years ago! Unbelievable that you pay a guy that much money for basically having one good season. You would have thought Keenum was a SB winner QB or something. Lol. Consequently, I think it's doutful now that Elway will take a QB with the 5th.
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/03/16/broncos-roster-building-around-case-keenum/
Btw, a deal is being finalized to trade Siemian to the Vikes and good ole Osweiler won't be re-signed (back to Cleveland maybe? Lol). So, it's clear Elway is still holding on to his boy Lynch as the future QB, and if he were to some how beat out Keenum for the starting job, you'll have a 36 million dollar man sitting the bench. Also, I think Elway is impressed enough with Chad Kelly (Jim Kelly's nephew) to keep him around for at least another year (reports out of Dove Valley last preseason was that Kelly threw the ball the best).
However, with that ludicrous Kirk Cousions signing and now with this Keenum deal, it's becoming increasing difficult to remain a fan of the NFL. The sky seems to be limit with some of these outrageous QB salaries! Many of us have to actually work for a living unlike some of these overpriced crybabies. And we're suppose to feel sorry for these guys because of the CTE situation? Yeah...right.
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/03/16/broncos-roster-building-around-case-keenum/
Btw, a deal is being finalized to trade Siemian to the Vikes and good ole Osweiler won't be re-signed (back to Cleveland maybe? Lol). So, it's clear Elway is still holding on to his boy Lynch as the future QB, and if he were to some how beat out Keenum for the starting job, you'll have a 36 million dollar man sitting the bench. Also, I think Elway is impressed enough with Chad Kelly (Jim Kelly's nephew) to keep him around for at least another year (reports out of Dove Valley last preseason was that Kelly threw the ball the best).
However, with that ludicrous Kirk Cousions signing and now with this Keenum deal, it's becoming increasing difficult to remain a fan of the NFL. The sky seems to be limit with some of these outrageous QB salaries! Many of us have to actually work for a living unlike some of these overpriced crybabies. And we're suppose to feel sorry for these guys because of the CTE situation? Yeah...right.
You lost me with the last sentence. Are you saying that you think it's a fair trade-off to sacrifice their minds for a few million dollars? Would you trade money for the chance to have difficulty in thinking, impulsive behavior, depression, short-term memory loss, emotional instability, suicidal thoughts and behavior, irritability, aggression, speech difficulty, motor impairment, vision and focusing problems, trouble with sense of smell, dementia and lots more? I know that I wouldn't trade anything in the world for all of that and anyone that has CTE should get lots of sympathy.Nomad said:
I will give Alpe that 6'1" is not really short. But it is shorter, and is what pundits have been saying while bringing Brees and Wilson into the discussion as kind of a way of saying his height should not really matter. More important is accuracy. And perceived negative attitude & character, which the dock-series I think is intended to reverse.
Half joking, half serious, I (as well as millions of people) can check many/most of those boxes and I didn't make $20 mil a year. OK, 2/3 serious.Irondan said:
EDIT: That's not to say that I don't feel bad when they develop CTE or blow their knee out for that matter. I feel bad for people who are addicted to opioids too. When I was in my 20s would I have taken $20 mil knowing the risk of what you listed? Yes! $5 mil? Still yes!
Yeah, everyone has problems, I know. My point was in relation to the posters question in that they ask if "were supposed to feel sorry for those guys because of the CTE situation". Yes, we're supposed to feel sorry for them and anyone else that didn't know they were trading their entire being for some money and a little glory. It's sad, but I guess not everyone gives a *** about their fellow man/woman.jmdirt said:
What about the guys that still play, knowing they're possibly damaging their brains for some money and glory, do we feel sorry for them? Probably not, but they've been given the facts and made a decision to play anyway. That's on them. It's still a sad story though, the game we love is destroying the people that play it for our own amusement.
Anyway, I'll stop ramblin. I'm not trying to cast a dark shadow.
FWIW, I don't think anyone here truly lacks compassion for those with CTE, or any other disease for that matter. Like coal miners who know going in they could end up with black lung disease. Do we non-miners feel sorry for them when they do get black lung disease? Absolutely. I think the OP was just expressing frustration with the exorbitant NFL salaries and how pay is incongruous with merit.
With the Browns now officially signing Carlos Hyde, does that cement for certain that they won't draft Saquon Barkley, even if he's there at 4? Also, what QB will they take?
Sam Darnold's pro day is Wednesday.
I too am surprised by how much the Broncos are paying Keenum, plus them saying they have their guy. Really?
I feel the Raiders overpaid for Jordy Nelson, but not to that level.
Sam Darnold's pro day is Wednesday.
I too am surprised by how much the Broncos are paying Keenum, plus them saying they have their guy. Really?
I feel the Raiders overpaid for Jordy Nelson, but not to that level.
Re:
As for Hyde, my impression is he's not the best pass receiver out of the backfield and that SB is much better. I could be wrong, but my gut feel is they take SB at #4 overall if he's is still available. What a backfield tandem or 1-2 punch that would be. The monkey wrench is the retirement of LT Joe Thomas, so will the Browns instead take an offensive lineman (G Quentin Nelson or LT Mike McGlinchey, both of ND)?
I think the Browns take Sam Darnold #1 overall IF they still have that pick. I mean, since the Jets traded up to the #3 overall spot, now maybe some other QB-needy team (Buffalo, Arizona, maybe Denver) will get anxious and trade up with Cleveland to the #1 overall. Because Buffalo is at #12 and Arizona is at #15 overall I'd think those two would have to give up a lot for Cleveland to agree to trade down that far, even while the Browns still have the #4 overall. But while Denver has Keenum and I have a hard time believing they think he's their long-term solution, they sit at #5 overall, which might be more acceptable to the Browns. BUT ALL THAT IS A LOT OF IFFING, and the Jets trading up will probably force Cleveland into taking a QB at #1, even if they want Barkley more - So I still think Cleveland stands pat with the #1 overall pick and takes Darnold. BUT I would not be surprised if instead they take one of the other top QBs (Rosen, Mayfield, Allen).Alpe d'Huez said:
As for Hyde, my impression is he's not the best pass receiver out of the backfield and that SB is much better. I could be wrong, but my gut feel is they take SB at #4 overall if he's is still available. What a backfield tandem or 1-2 punch that would be. The monkey wrench is the retirement of LT Joe Thomas, so will the Browns instead take an offensive lineman (G Quentin Nelson or LT Mike McGlinchey, both of ND)?
Re:
After CLE brought in Taylor I figured that they would/should take Barkley first until I heard rumors that they were talking to Hyde. Now that he has signed, I don't see them taking Barkely with either of their first two picks. It's certainly possible that they would still take him at 4, but...
I just don't get bringing Taylor in and then drafting a pocket passer, so I assume that they are looking at mayfield EDIT: or Jackson (I have overlooked him, but...)
I'd like to see Keenum go huge in DEN!
Gruden was looking for a locker room leader and was willing to over-pay Nelson to be that guy.
EDIT: NYJ might grab Barkley at 3 because they seem to have addressed QB with McCown and Teddy. I don't see them going after a QB in the first round now.
Who are the NYG looking at? This would be the perfect draft to bring a guy in for Eli to help develop. Allen?
ALL IMO:Alpe d'Huez said:
After CLE brought in Taylor I figured that they would/should take Barkley first until I heard rumors that they were talking to Hyde. Now that he has signed, I don't see them taking Barkely with either of their first two picks. It's certainly possible that they would still take him at 4, but...
I just don't get bringing Taylor in and then drafting a pocket passer, so I assume that they are looking at mayfield EDIT: or Jackson (I have overlooked him, but...)
I'd like to see Keenum go huge in DEN!
Gruden was looking for a locker room leader and was willing to over-pay Nelson to be that guy.
EDIT: NYJ might grab Barkley at 3 because they seem to have addressed QB with McCown and Teddy. I don't see them going after a QB in the first round now.
Who are the NYG looking at? This would be the perfect draft to bring a guy in for Eli to help develop. Allen?
I'm a football geek and it takes me a minute to get through your code names! :lol:
With the trades happening now, I won't be surprised if QBs go 1, 2, 3 in the draft. Maybe all four guys were talking about in the top 10. Even though the Jets grabbed Bridgewater, and McCown says he's playing at least one more year, a prospect QB is a possibility, unless they're looking at Barkley.
Indy trading out of #3, tells me they aren't looking to get Barkley, but start stacking what they can for the future, and a lot of that will depend on if Luck really can throw again.
I just don't see the Browns trading out of #1, unless the offer is just insane. However, if Barkley is available at #4 when Cleveland's second pick comes up, don't be shocked if their phone rings off the hook by teams looking to get him, and give up too much to the Browns in return.
Logic would say Cleveland will take whatever QB they like best at #1, and an OT at #4, with Thomas retiring, or maybe the best defensive player in the draft, probably a DE or DT. Especially since they didn't spend on either in FA. I don't think Taylor's style has much to do with who they draft to replace him in a year or two. If they were smart (and this is the Browns we're talking about) they'd spend serious due diligence and find the guy out of the top four guys mentioned, and take him first, and be ready for that guy to be their QB from 2019 (or 2020) until 2030 or so. The guy is going to sit most all next season anyway, so they have room to work with him. That's why I'm thinking Darnold. The other option is Allen. Both guys have huge potential, but are not likely ready to start in the NFL next season. As to building the lines, keep in mind they have nine picks in this draft, with five of those coming in the first two rounds. Yes, you read that correctly. They also have 8 picks next season. This is after trading picks away to get Taylor and Landry. AND, they are still flush with cash after spending on these guys. That's how horrible of a hole the team has been in for the last several years. Problem is, they need help almost everywhere, and a draft can only do so much.
With the trades happening now, I won't be surprised if QBs go 1, 2, 3 in the draft. Maybe all four guys were talking about in the top 10. Even though the Jets grabbed Bridgewater, and McCown says he's playing at least one more year, a prospect QB is a possibility, unless they're looking at Barkley.
Indy trading out of #3, tells me they aren't looking to get Barkley, but start stacking what they can for the future, and a lot of that will depend on if Luck really can throw again.
I just don't see the Browns trading out of #1, unless the offer is just insane. However, if Barkley is available at #4 when Cleveland's second pick comes up, don't be shocked if their phone rings off the hook by teams looking to get him, and give up too much to the Browns in return.
Logic would say Cleveland will take whatever QB they like best at #1, and an OT at #4, with Thomas retiring, or maybe the best defensive player in the draft, probably a DE or DT. Especially since they didn't spend on either in FA. I don't think Taylor's style has much to do with who they draft to replace him in a year or two. If they were smart (and this is the Browns we're talking about) they'd spend serious due diligence and find the guy out of the top four guys mentioned, and take him first, and be ready for that guy to be their QB from 2019 (or 2020) until 2030 or so. The guy is going to sit most all next season anyway, so they have room to work with him. That's why I'm thinking Darnold. The other option is Allen. Both guys have huge potential, but are not likely ready to start in the NFL next season. As to building the lines, keep in mind they have nine picks in this draft, with five of those coming in the first two rounds. Yes, you read that correctly. They also have 8 picks next season. This is after trading picks away to get Taylor and Landry. AND, they are still flush with cash after spending on these guys. That's how horrible of a hole the team has been in for the last several years. Problem is, they need help almost everywhere, and a draft can only do so much.
Jeez dirtman, you had my brain doing somersaults with all those acronyms. STOP it. Bad dog! No bisquit!! :lol:
Okay, so:
TT = tyrod Taylor
SB = saquon Barkley
CH = Carlos Hyde
BM = baker Mayfield
LJ = Lamar Jackson
(Good thing you didn't use LF, that might have lost us all)
CK = Case Keenum (no, not Colin Kaepernick)
JG = Jon Gruden
JN = Jordy Nelson
JM = Josh McCown
TB = teddy Bridgewater
EM = Eli manning...
Did I pass the quiz?
Agree w/Alpe's CLE take.
Now, there is rumor either BUF or ARI trade up to #2 overall with NYG to jump in front of the NYJ, screwing up plans of the NYJ. If that happens, more imperative CLE stays at #1 overall to grab a QB.
More rumor on Brady vs Time video, a small segment has Tom's wifey saying Tom just wants to go to work to be appreciated. Implying he currently is not appreciated? WTH??? Maybe someone up in NE can shed more light on that.
Okay, so:
TT = tyrod Taylor
SB = saquon Barkley
CH = Carlos Hyde
BM = baker Mayfield
LJ = Lamar Jackson
(Good thing you didn't use LF, that might have lost us all)
CK = Case Keenum (no, not Colin Kaepernick)
JG = Jon Gruden
JN = Jordy Nelson
JM = Josh McCown
TB = teddy Bridgewater
EM = Eli manning...
Did I pass the quiz?
Agree w/Alpe's CLE take.
Now, there is rumor either BUF or ARI trade up to #2 overall with NYG to jump in front of the NYJ, screwing up plans of the NYJ. If that happens, more imperative CLE stays at #1 overall to grab a QB.
More rumor on Brady vs Time video, a small segment has Tom's wifey saying Tom just wants to go to work to be appreciated. Implying he currently is not appreciated? WTH??? Maybe someone up in NE can shed more light on that.
Re:
Sorry, I use initials because my spelling of names stinks! I edited, but see there is a cheat sheet now, thanks on3! :lol:Alpe d'Huez said:
The way the Seahawks are swapping and dealing and letting people go it makes me think of something I didn't think I'd ponder a few years ago....will the Seahawks finish above the 49ers in 2018?? I am not so sure anymore!!!
Letting L. Wilson go seems odd. Not that he is a superstar, but R. Wilson seemed to have a connection with him. It wouldn't surprise me if the 49ers did finish ahead of the Seahawks. This isn't a full gutting, but its a serious rebuild. They have some key pieces to build around at least, but this season might be tough. Hopefully they get some gems in the draft!BullsFan22 said:
Scary thought!!BullsFan22 said:
Obviously, the Seahawks are reloading with younger (cheaper) players.
It might be a long season in 2018.
I'm not surprised they let Willson go. They almost let him go last year. Luke was no superstar like Graham, whose talents were untapped in Seattle. So losing Luke (or Graham for that matter) is not such a big deal. But they just signed ex-Carolina's TE Ed Dickson, who is a better blocker that either Jimmy Graham or Luke Willson. Luke got a 1-year $2.5M deal, so Luke was not much of a cap casualty. Seattle will pay more for Dickson (3-yr $14M) than Luke just got, so the decision to Luke go was not money. It was over fit in the offense.jmdirt said:
With Luke now gone, I expect Seattle to use 2nd-year TE Nick Vannett more. I like this TE duo (Dickson, Vannett) better than Graham-Willson, who cost more than they were worth and did not fit the offense as well as Dickson-Vannett. https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/3/2...eahawks-jimmy-graham-carolina-panthers-scheme
In addition, you all know Seattle just picked up center Justin Britt's option, making him a Seahawk another 3 years. Speculation is this was new OL coach Solari's desire. Breaking news that has not hit the major news yet is Seattle just signed 27-YO guard DJ Fluker, a former #11 overall pick by SD out of Bama, played last season as a NYG. Fluker is a former Solari guy, so there was a connection there to the new Seattle OL coach. Fluker is legit, as is LT Duane Brown (4x pro bowler 2012-2014, 2017), who Seattle traded for mid-last season.
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/3/2...nsive-lineman-d-j-fluker-nfl-free-agency-news
Do you see a trend here? High priced Bennett, Graham, Sherman money now flipping to the offensive side. And they spent more for new TE Dickson than they would have paid Luke. It had to happen to protect Russ Wilson and improve the run game/offense.
Certainly some good pickups (I hadn't heard about Flucker), but can they make the pieces work together? Honestly, I'm glad that Bennett, Sherman, Graham... are gone, but its 50-50 when you do what SEA is doing. As a fan I'd love to see the pieces fall together for a 12 win season, play off run, and Superbowl.on3m@n@rmy said:
Comp committee's recommendation for new catch rule:
https://twitter.com/alriveron/status/976505088192798720?s=09
I like it except possibly for #3 of what a football move looks like. "The ability to perform such an act" (of "reaching/extending for the line to gain") seems awfully subjective. But so is the current catch rule. Overall, it is simpler. My only question ATM, does the "ability to perform" also apply to or include #1 under football moves, which is taking a 3rd step? If so, that means it could be ruled a catch if receivers get both feet or other body part down before receiver can take a 3rd step by either going OB or having legs cut by a tackling defender. If that is how to interpret the proposed rule, I like it.
https://twitter.com/alriveron/status/976505088192798720?s=09
I like it except possibly for #3 of what a football move looks like. "The ability to perform such an act" (of "reaching/extending for the line to gain") seems awfully subjective. But so is the current catch rule. Overall, it is simpler. My only question ATM, does the "ability to perform" also apply to or include #1 under football moves, which is taking a 3rd step? If so, that means it could be ruled a catch if receivers get both feet or other body part down before receiver can take a 3rd step by either going OB or having legs cut by a tackling defender. If that is how to interpret the proposed rule, I like it.
That is the million-dollar question. Overall I like what they are doing this offseason and did last draft. In the last draft they acquired some good young defensive secondary talent. They have continued adding to the secondary in this offseason. They added a LB / edge guy in Mingo. And they are now bolstering their offensive line and tight end blocking. Plus they have added a few WRs that should contribute. All of this sets them up in the draft to be able to take an interior defensive lineman early or another offensive lineman if one is available. Later rounds of the draft I see them going after at least one running back and maybe some defensive help in the secondary. Or best athlete available.jmdirt said:
I really think Solari as OL coach will improve that unit. Cable's flaw was he wanted mean nasty aggression on every play. This resulted in players off balance or out of position to the point of nearly falling on their face. But not every block needs to be a knockout. Position, position, position works as well. Last year rookie Ethan Pocic was really good getting hips turned to seal off.
Anyway, we'll see how it all works out when the rubber hits the road. I am optimistic it will be better than many think it will.
It's better, but still pretty similar to what we have now.
1. Control - I take this to be both hand holding the ball, one hand in clear possession of the ball (Odell Beckam style), or one hand holding the ball against the body without much movement - such as the ball slipping away.
2. Two feet down, or another body part. - Easy as pie. Got it.
3. A Football Move, such as:
a. A third step. - Does this apply if the player goes out of bounds on that third step? What if he steps on another player who is down, is that a step?
b. Reaching or extending for the line to gain - Kind of got it. I also see this replayed to death.
c. The ability to perform such an act - I'm with On@3, I'm not entirely sure what this means.
Why do you even need #3 at all? Why does there have to be a "football move"?
1. Control - I take this to be both hand holding the ball, one hand in clear possession of the ball (Odell Beckam style), or one hand holding the ball against the body without much movement - such as the ball slipping away.
2. Two feet down, or another body part. - Easy as pie. Got it.
3. A Football Move, such as:
a. A third step. - Does this apply if the player goes out of bounds on that third step? What if he steps on another player who is down, is that a step?
b. Reaching or extending for the line to gain - Kind of got it. I also see this replayed to death.
c. The ability to perform such an act - I'm with On@3, I'm not entirely sure what this means.
Why do you even need #3 at all? Why does there have to be a "football move"?
Re:
I think the Browns would still be interested in Barkley. Up until last season Hyde has also been a bit injury prone but if the Browns had both of them playing together and the O Line did their job those two could be a formidable pairing and Barkley is a different sort of RB to Hyde. Hyde is at his best pounding the ball up the middle, he is more about strength than speed. I just hope for the Browns sake they pick a good QB. Surely they have to get it right sooner or later. Browns should have enough picks and money to do some serious trading and swapping in the draft. Seems like the Jimmy G deal opened the floodgates for QB salaries as expected. Drew Brees' and Aaaron Rodgers' next contracts should be interesting.............the two losers in the QB musical chairs look like being both of the NY teams. Two more teams that probably won't be far away from a rebuild.
Alpe d'Huez said:
I think the Browns would still be interested in Barkley. Up until last season Hyde has also been a bit injury prone but if the Browns had both of them playing together and the O Line did their job those two could be a formidable pairing and Barkley is a different sort of RB to Hyde. Hyde is at his best pounding the ball up the middle, he is more about strength than speed. I just hope for the Browns sake they pick a good QB. Surely they have to get it right sooner or later. Browns should have enough picks and money to do some serious trading and swapping in the draft. Seems like the Jimmy G deal opened the floodgates for QB salaries as expected. Drew Brees' and Aaaron Rodgers' next contracts should be interesting.............the two losers in the QB musical chairs look like being both of the NY teams. Two more teams that probably won't be far away from a rebuild.
Brees already signed. 2-years, $50m, with $27m guaranteed. Contract is on the "player friendly" side of things.
• Full No Trade Clause
• 2018 Roster Bonus (treated as signing): $13.5M
• 2018 Roster Bonus: $3.3M (due 3/16/2018)
• 2020 automatically voids at the end of 2019 league year
• Cannot be franchise tagged in 2020
Another perk is if he just makes the roster in 2019, that's another $11m in the bank. The only thing preventing this would have to be a career ending injury. Put another way, it's quite possible he'll walk away with the entire $50m when it's all said and done.
• Full No Trade Clause
• 2018 Roster Bonus (treated as signing): $13.5M
• 2018 Roster Bonus: $3.3M (due 3/16/2018)
• 2020 automatically voids at the end of 2019 league year
• Cannot be franchise tagged in 2020
Another perk is if he just makes the roster in 2019, that's another $11m in the bank. The only thing preventing this would have to be a career ending injury. Put another way, it's quite possible he'll walk away with the entire $50m when it's all said and done.
TRENDING THREADS
-
-
Liege Bastogne Liege-7 hour monument, Sunday, April 21, 2024- Started by topcat
- Replies: 983
-
Paris - Roubaix 2024, one day monument, April 7- Started by Dreginald
- Replies: 2K
-
-
Volta Ciclista a Catalunya 2024 (March 18-24)- Started by Devil's Elbow
- Replies: 2K
-
-
De Ronde van Vlaanderen (270.8 km), 2024 March 31 (Sunday)- Started by Netserk
- Replies: 1K
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram