New drug surfacing in Moscow?

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Sep 29, 2012
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But the Wada director general, David Howman, said it would be "naive" not to suspect that some athletes in Sochi would be cheating. "It would be naive to believe that all athletes in Sochi are clean. There are many who are convinced that the substance they're taking cannot be detected," he told WDR. "It is shocking that a scientist would offer substances that have never been tested in people. The athletes are the experimental animals."
I am not sure why he considers it shocking. Scientists do not follow a Hippocratic oath:

The scientist tells the reporter that the drug "works two times faster than a normal muscle tonic and cannot be detected by the doping authorities".

The undercover journalist, who was given 1mg of the drug to test it, was then told that it would cost €100,000 to "prepare" an athlete adequately for the Winter Games.
Sounds like a "show me the money" oath.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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What gets me is that until this article was released, world-wide dissemination of the knowledge of this drug, its effects and cost, would have been slow and inefficient, with lots of email / SMS paper trails.

Now, we all know where to look and who to ask. Free PR.

Ridiculous.
 
May 15, 2012
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Catwhoorg said:
Whats a little bit of blindness as a deterrent.
I can't recall the name of it but the lactic acid buffer that Lance was initially using before he got cancer, was found to be a big cancer causing agent. Greg Lemond apparently used the same compound during his career and he also suffered health issues. It's just something i was told and i assume it wasn't anything banned at the time as there is nothing out there to suggest Lemond doped.

If i find the name i'll post it up.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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My reading of HemAssist is that it clears quickly. In a 3 week race it would seem to be of not much use unless you used it regularly during the Tour?
 
Briant_Gumble said:
From The Secret Race Tyler said Lance always improved his performance dramatically shortly before the Tour that might account for that.
Improved is an understatement.

Consequently, the national stage race competitor to grand tour podium is a strong clue PED's are the source of the grand tour podium.
 
Dear Wiggo said:
Getting very tired of people or orgs with years or decades of involvement in the sport claiming to be shocked at any friggin little thing that gets known.

Shocked?

Seriously?
Don't forget it was the reporter who wrote the story that described the WADA response as shocking. Keep in mind as well that in most newspapers the reporter does not write the headline.

What WADA was shocked about, was not that there was a new drug, but rather some scientist would promote human use of the drug before it being properly lab tested. In fact in my view the Guardian article points out that WADA is not shocked at all where David Howman is quoted as saying,

"But the Wada director general, David Howman, said it would be "naive" not to suspect that some athletes in Sochi would be cheating. "It would be naive to believe that all athletes in Sochi are clean. There are many who are convinced that the substance they're taking cannot be detected," he told WDR. "It is shocking that a scientist would offer substances that have never been tested in people. The athletes are the experimental animals."

This puts the shocking suggestion in its proper context!
 
Sep 29, 2012
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RobbieCanuck said:
Don't forget it was the reporter who wrote the story that described the WADA response as shocking. Keep in mind as well that in most newspapers the reporter does not write the headline.

What WADA was shocked about, was not that there was a new drug, but rather some scientist would promote human use of the drug before it being properly lab tested. In fact in my view the Guardian article points out that WADA is not shocked at all where David Howman is quoted as saying,

"But the Wada director general, David Howman, said it would be "naive" not to suspect that some athletes in Sochi would be cheating. "It would be naive to believe that all athletes in Sochi are clean. There are many who are convinced that the substance they're taking cannot be detected," he told WDR. "It is shocking that a scientist would offer substances that have never been tested in people. The athletes are the experimental animals."

This puts the shocking suggestion in its proper context!
I read the article again before posting (to make sure it was not just the headline) - and it's a drect quote that the WADA dude finds it shocking that XYZ happened.

But XYZ is not unusual in and of itself.

The Clear is another example of a scientist giving an unproven + untested <chemical> to athletes - with great effect.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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DirtyWorks said:
Improved is an understatement.

Consequently, the national stage race competitor to grand tour podium is a strong clue PED's are the source of the grand tour podium.
depends how you interpret the line shortly before the Tour.

He would always win TdSuisse and Dauphine in dominant manner.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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RobbieCanuck said:
Don't forget it was the reporter who wrote the story that described the WADA response as shocking. Keep in mind as well that in most newspapers the reporter does not write the headline.

What WADA was shocked about, was not that there was a new drug, but rather some scientist would promote human use of the drug before it being properly lab tested. In fact in my view the Guardian article points out that WADA is not shocked at all where David Howman is quoted as saying,

"But the Wada director general, David Howman, said it would be "naive" not to suspect that some athletes in Sochi would be cheating. "It would be naive to believe that all athletes in Sochi are clean. There are many who are convinced that the substance they're taking cannot be detected," he told WDR. "It is shocking that a scientist would offer substances that have never been tested in people. The athletes are the experimental animals."

This puts the shocking suggestion in its proper context!
not many doping beat journos. The others are just biding time, and really dont know jack. dont know about golman dilemma, have no appreciation like savulescua, hoberman, yesalis. Is Pierre Ballester the doping beat journo, formerly of l'Equipe, or who is the doping beat reporter io am thinking of. The sports journos in Australia are notorious for their (in)competency wrt drugs in sport.
 
blackcat said:
depends how you interpret the line shortly before the Tour.

He would always win TdSuisse and Dauphine in dominant manner.
LA was usually pretty good at Amstel as well, but apart from '99 didn't really seem too concerned about the win. He was often the strongest there.

Not sure why he never went after Liege, considering he was very close pre cancer.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Dear Wiggo said:
Just curious what retionpathologi[c]al means?
Fumblefinger strikes again!:)
Sorry about that. Retinopathy, or retinopathological change was what I intended to write.

From another source, a rumour has reached me about yet another drug that just might end up in an athlete near you in the near future. It stems from cancer research. As you know, vascularization of tumors is a prerequisite for tumor growth. The tumor needs oxygen and nutrients to grow. It's well known that hypoxia drives this mechanism, which is why endurance athletes do what they do in training, but there are also other molecular pathways driving tumor vascularization. These molecular pathways have been the subject of tons of research, and being able to starve tumors, blocking capillaries from growing in tumors has been the holy grail. And guess what the flip side of that research is: Knowledge about the molecular pathways that drives increased capillarization and mitochondrial proliferation in muscle tissue! Just wait till the ethically challenged likes of Dr. Ferrari get hold of those chemicals!
 
Sep 29, 2012
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hektoren said:
Fumblefinger strikes again!:)
Sorry about that. Retinopathy, or retinopathological change was what I intended to write.

From another source, a rumour has reached me about yet another drug that just might end up in an athlete near you in the near future. It stems from cancer research. As you know, vascularization of tumors is a prerequisite for tumor growth. The tumor needs oxygen and nutrients to grow. It's well known that hypoxia drives this mechanism, which is why endurance athletes do what they do in training, but there are also other molecular pathways driving tumor vascularization. These molecular pathways have been the subject of tons of research, and being able to starve tumors, blocking capillaries from growing in tumors has been the holy grail. And guess what the flip side of that research is: Knowledge about the molecular pathways that drives increased capillarization and mitochondrial proliferation in muscle tissue! Just wait till the ethically challenged likes of Dr. Ferrari get hold of those chemicals!
Tell me more :D
 
Kicker661 said:
I can't recall the name of it but the lactic acid buffer that Lance was initially using before he got cancer, was found to be a big cancer causing agent. Greg Lemond apparently used the same compound during his career and he also suffered health issues. It's just something i was told and i assume it wasn't anything banned at the time as there is nothing out there to suggest Lemond doped.

If i find the name i'll post it up.
I must admit the first thing that popped into my head this morning after hearing about Curt Schilling's (unspecified at this time) cancer, was musing if it was PED related.
 
Apr 14, 2010
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Catwhoorg said:
I must admit the first thing that popped into my head this morning after hearing about Curt Schilling's (unspecified at this time) cancer, was musing if it was PED related.
Absolutely my first thought especially since he's not divulging what type of cancer it is.
 
Aug 18, 2012
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therhodeo said:
Absolutely my first thought especially since he's not divulging what type of cancer it is.
Not that I know a lot about Baseball but isn't he quite out spoken against PED's.
 
May 19, 2010
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hektoren said:
According to German television channel ARD, a reporter was recently approached by a reputable russian scientist, employed by the russian academy of Science (Rossijskaja Akademija Nauk), and was given a sample of "Full size MGF", a substance with IGF-1 effect. According to the russian, no test exists for this new substance, and it hasn't been tested on humans yet.
According to Mads Drange there is nothing new about this drug. A scientific article about it was published in 2005. The only news is that is was a Russian scientist who sold. It has been on the WADA list of banned substances for years. There is no test for it, as far as Drange knows. Another anti doping expert, Peter Hemmersbac, won't say if there is a test yet.

- The drug has been on the doping list for years. It did not show up now. Wada has been aware of it. They have had ten years where they could have developed a test.

- Had it been a simple matter to find a test method for this drug?

- It would certainly not be impossible, as is shown in the article from 2005. It's about the willingness to set aside money, says Drange.
http://www.vg.no/sport/ol-2014/artikkel.php?artid=10121803
 
Mar 13, 2009
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42x16ss said:
LA was usually pretty good at Amstel as well, but apart from '99 didn't really seem too concerned about the win. He was often the strongest there.

Not sure why he never went after Liege, considering he was very close pre cancer.
because, there are infinite variables in a one-day race without the insulin/blood-o2-vector/testo/hgh recovery doping to manage some of those variables away and make it into an ergo test.

Think, GTs with preparation and recovery doping can ameliorate most risk factors and variables.

One-day races are a pot luck. And it was not good marketing back on the home-front for Armstrong to be seen to be "lose(ing)" a major race. It did not reconcile with his brand identity on the home front. But then again, he and Stapleton did put on an Astana kit.
 
blackcat said:
because, there are infinite variables in a one-day race without the insulin/blood-o2-vector/testo/hgh recovery doping to manage some of those variables away and make it into an ergo test.

Think, GTs with preparation and recovery doping can ameliorate most risk factors and variables.

One-day races are a pot luck. And it was not good marketing back on the home-front for Armstrong to be seen to be "lose(ing)" a major race. It did not reconcile with his brand identity on the home front. But then again, he and Stapleton did put on an Astana kit.
I don't think anyone back home is familiar with LBL. Even if he won, no one would care.
 
Even if it was reported in a "LA wins prestigious race in Belgium, sends warning to opponents for the TdF" kind of way?

Then again, I guessthat would require LA to actually have a passion for cycling, not just the lifestyle it brought him...
 
Jun 15, 2009
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42x16ss said:
Even if it was reported in a "LA wins prestigious race in Belgium, sends warning to opponents for the TdF" kind of way?

Then again, I guessthat would require LA to actually have a passion for cycling, not just the lifestyle it brought him...
Forgive me for stating the obvious, but Lance Armstrongs cycling history is totally irrelevant to the OP in this thread. Go somewhere else with your bickering. Plenty of threads to choose from.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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the delgados said:
I don't think anyone back home is familiar with LBL. Even if he won, no one would care.
exactly.

And the point I was trying tio make, his entire persona and identity for his dollar back in the States was based on being unbeatable.

OK, weakness in this position, if he does not win and actually loses in LBL, how likely are the wire services and NBC likely to carry this piece of information? Close to zero, and if it is carried in the fineprint of USA Today, it never registers to create a blip in his Q-Rating for his corporate profile.
 

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