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New NZ Cycling Team formed

*sigh*

another quasi-nationalistic team. From yet another Anglophone country with a track problem, that can produce sprinters and time triallists, but ultimately I don't see where on earth a proper GT contender is coming from.

With Australia wanting one, Canada setting one up, Britain having one, the US having at least two of these boredom teams, there really isn't a need.

Plus, as Team Sky have almost all of Britain's riders at the top tier, Britain are low down in the Continental and World rankings and may be down to 3 riders at the Worlds, from 9 last year. This should be a cautionary tale.
 

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Libertine Seguros said:
*sigh*

another quasi-nationalistic team. From yet another Anglophone country with a track problem, that can produce sprinters and time triallists, but ultimately I don't see where on earth a proper GT contender is coming from.

With Australia wanting one, Canada setting one up, Britain having one, the US having at least two of these boredom teams, there really isn't a need.

Well, one thing with the Australian team, at least there I can see some serious GT contenders being able to come from. See for example Evans and perhaps in the future Porte. And they can perhaps not create a boredom team, but an interesting team
 
The problem is, there is simply no need for an Australian team. I can see why countries like Canada and the UK feel the need for one, but there are Australians with a wide range of skills and abilities all over the ProTour and ProConti shop. If you create a quasi-national team for them, it's just going to be a mess, because you'll have people with genuine GC aims, people who want to sprint, people who want to stage-hunt... and all of whom will be worthy talents that you want to take to the big races. And as we've learnt from Team Sky, if you try to do everything at once, you'll do everything, but only to a mediocre level.

The Aussie team would be much more interesting than the others, mind.
 

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Libertine Seguros said:
The problem is, there is simply no need for an Australian team. I can see why countries like Canada and the UK feel the need for one, but there are Australians with a wide range of skills and abilities all over the ProTour and ProConti shop. If you create a quasi-national team for them, it's just going to be a mess, because you'll have people with genuine GC aims, people who want to sprint, people who want to stage-hunt... and all of whom will be worthy talents that you want to take to the big races. And as we've learnt from Team Sky, if you try to do everything at once, you'll do everything, but only to a mediocre level.

The Aussie team would be much more interesting than the others, mind.

Thas was mainly the gist of my argument, in my mind truly national teams in the highest echelons of the sport are not the best manner to improve the sport, in youths and on the continental level, yes I can see the benefit of those as a good manner to improve the sport. An example of this latter is Topsport Vlaanderen. But really it should just remain a developmental squad and not meant as a squad gunning for winning the tour
 
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Libertine Seguros said:
*sigh*

another quasi-nationalistic team. From yet another Anglophone country with a track problem, that can produce sprinters and time triallists, but ultimately I don't see where on earth a proper GT contender is coming from.

With Australia wanting one, Canada setting one up, Britain having one, the US having at least two of these boredom teams, there really isn't a need.

Plus, as Team Sky have almost all of Britain's riders at the top tier, Britain are low down in the Continental and World rankings and may be down to 3 riders at the Worlds, from 9 last year. This should be a cautionary tale.

yeah I laugh hard at these attempts as well. There will probably never be tour winner that originated from track. Not even Moser was originally a track rider and he was very lucky to win the giro. but because of the wiggins one day fly act last year everybody now thinks they can.
 
As a serious comment, and while this is going to cause me immense pain to type, I sort of like the Trek-Livestrong/Radioshack set up. It shouldn't be a pro-tour team's job to brng through young talent. An ideal set-up is a lower category U23 "nationalistic" team that then feeds riders to the pro-tour team, freeing up the pro-tour team to concentrate on events and to a certain extent from nationalistic expectations.
 
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Roland Rat said:
As a serious comment, and while this is going to cause me immense pain to type, I sort of like the Trek-Livestrong/Radioshack set up. It shouldn't be a pro-tour team's job to brng through young talent. An ideal set-up is a lower category U23 "nationalistic" team that then feeds riders to the pro-tour team, freeing up the pro-tour team to concentrate on events and to a certain extent from nationalistic expectations.

the thing is trek livestrong only have identical riders. they are all itt riders and limited sprinters, nothing more. they have absolute zero gc talent. if you are 6 foot 4 and 185 pounds you are probably never going to win the tour and that is exactly where that team is made from, guys from that size, same with htc columbia nowadays, rogers with 185 and 75 will never be a force. unless you are of such rare talent liker indurain or botero
 

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Roland Rat said:
As a serious comment, and while this is going to cause me immense pain to type, I sort of like the Trek-Livestrong/Radioshack set up. It shouldn't be a pro-tour team's job to brng through young talent. An ideal set-up is a lower category U23 "nationalistic" team that then feeds riders to the pro-tour team, freeing up the pro-tour team to concentrate on events and to a certain extent from nationalistic expectations.

Kinda like topsport Vlaanderen? Or the Rabo u23 squad?
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
yeah I laugh hard at these attempts as well. There will probably never be tour winner that originated from track. Not even Moser was originally a track rider and he was very lucky to win the giro. but because of the wiggins one day fly act last year everybody now thinks they can.
You've watched Kopspijkers a bit too often ;)
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
the thing is trek livestrong only have identical riders. they are all itt riders and limited sprinters, nothing more. they have absolute zero gc talent. if you are 6 foot 4 and 185 pounds you are probably never going to win the tour and that is exactly where that team is made from, guys from that size, same with htc columbia nowadays, rogers with 185 and 75 will never be a force. unless you are of such rare talent liker indurain or botero

But there's more to cycling than the TdF*. What about the next Cancellara, Boonen, Cav, Thor etc etc. And then if you do happen to chance upon the next Lemond/Fignon etc, then the structure is in place to make the most of it.




* why does this have to be said so many times?
 
Barrus said:
Kinda like topsport Vlaanderen? Or the Rabo u23 squad?

Exactly. I think Australia adn New Zealand would be much better served having a euro-based u23 development team than a Sky-esque ambitious team. If that then develops, then great, but don't run before you can walk.

To a certain degree Sky are making that mistake. They should at least use one of those millions to create an u23 squad.

And, while we're at it, a women's squad.
 
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Roland Rat said:
Exactly. I think Australia adn New Zealand would be much better served having a euro-based u23 development team than a Sky-esque ambitious team. If that then develops, then great, but don't run before you can walk.

To a certain degree Sky are making that mistake. They should at least use one of those millions to create a u23 squad.

And, while we're at it, a women's squad.

why a woman squad?? seriously who cares about that?
 
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Roland Rat said:
But there's more to cycling than the TdF*. What about the next Cancellara, Boonen, Cav, Thor etc etc. And then if you do happen to chance upon the next Lemond/Fignon etc, then the structure is in place to make the most of it.




* why does this have to be said so many times?

I agree but it's all these anglosaksian teams that want to win the tour in x amount of years...
 
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Libertine Seguros said:
The problem is, there is simply no need for an Australian team. I can see why countries like Canada and the UK feel the need for one, but there are Australians with a wide range of skills and abilities all over the ProTour and ProConti shop. If you create a quasi-national team for them, it's just going to be a mess, because you'll have people with genuine GC aims, people who want to sprint, people who want to stage-hunt... and all of whom will be worthy talents that you want to take to the big races. And as we've learnt from Team Sky, if you try to do everything at once, you'll do everything, but only to a mediocre level.

The Aussie team would be much more interesting than the others, mind.

yes the tour team could be filled with all thegreat australian riders atm; evans,meyer,bobridge,porte,acf94, sutton,etc.
 
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While I like the forming of a team from New Zealand to build up some talent from the country to become Sprinter's and or Time Trialists for bigger teams that does not seem like what this is being designed to do...

The goal to be at the Tour de France by 2015 is a completely unacheiveable goal IMO. Get into the US or Europe race some high quality races, maybe even latch on underneath a Pro-Tour team and use the team as a development package for Kiwi's.

Don't try to create a GC rider from our Track team. However that seems to be the exact point of the team's creation.
 
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Libertine Seguros said:
*sigh*

another quasi-nationalistic team. From yet another Anglophone country with a track problem, that can produce sprinters and time triallists, but ultimately I don't see where on earth a proper GT contender is coming from.
It's not like quasi-nationalistic teams are something new, and something typical anglophone?
The majority of the pro-tour teams are already quasi nationalistic, or are planning to become more nationalistic.
Euskaltel for sure, but also the most French, Spanish and Italian teams. Both Rabobank and Lotto already said they want to focus more on Dutch/Belgian riders.
Teams from smaller countries in cycling terms (Saxo, Astana,...) are more international, because they don't really have a choice.
 

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Buffalo Soldier said:
It's not like quasi-nationalistic teams are something new, and something typical anglophone?
The majority of the pro-tour teams are already quasi nationalistic, or are planning to become more nationalistic.
Euskaltel for sure, but also the most French, Spanish and Italian teams. Both Rabobank and Lotto already said they want to focus more on Dutch/Belgian riders.
Teams from smaller countries in cycling terms (Saxo, Astana,...) are more international, because they don't really have a choice.

But there is a general difference between these teams and the new teams. These older teams come from countries that are already involved in the sport for a long time, have developmental squads, have smaller squads and the countries have a culture of cycling. Compare this to these anglophone countries who try to take a track squad and transmorph it into a road squad capable of competing and winning the tour.
These new teams are created without the proper foundation of a youth and u23 developmental squad and without a basis that ensures that riders already have experience on the road in a wide variety of disciplines
In my mind most of the people in this thread advocate the creation of a team for development, which can be along the nationalist lines, before trying to create a pro team along these lines
 
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Ryo Hazuki said:
the thing is trek livestrong only have identical riders. they are all itt riders and limited sprinters, nothing more. they have absolute zero gc talent. if you are 6 foot 4 and 185 pounds you are probably never going to win the tour and that is exactly where that team is made from, guys from that size, same with htc columbia nowadays, rogers with 185 and 75 will never be a force. unless you are of such rare talent liker indurain or botero

You are kidding right...? Ben King (USA) is a small climber who time trials really well! He is a good gc guy and is doing a hell of a job this season.
 

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