New NZ Cycling Team formed

[TRDean]

I agree but it's all these anglosaksian teams that want to win the tour in x amount of years...

This is pretty tiresome really...the predictions of tour wins in year xx are for media and public relations only. It helps bring money and support for the team. There is no difference in Sky, an Aussie or NZ team and any of the nationalistic French, Spanish (Basque), Dutch, Belgian, Italian, or Russian teams. What the heck is so bad about wanting to develop cycling in your country?

 

[Barrus]

This is pretty tiresome really...the predictions of tour wins in year xx are for media and public relations only. It helps bring money and support for the team. There is no difference in Sky, an Aussie or NZ team and any of the nationalistic French, Spanish (Basque), Dutch, Belgian, Italian, or Russian teams. What the heck is so bad about wanting to develop cycling in your country?

The problem is that you don't develop cycling in your country in this way, you need to develop it at the youth and the grassroots level and not by creating a team intent on winning the tour

 

[craig1985]

Will they be performing haka at the start of each stage?

Somehow I don't think so. Although seeing 9 blokes do a war dance in spandex before 210km mountain stage in the Giro (and those stages are brutal ), would be quite a sight.

Best leave it to these guys:

 

[rxgqgxnyfz]

Somehow I don't think so. Although seeing 9 blokes do a war dance in spandex before 210km mountain stage in the Giro (and those stages are brutal ), would be quite a sight.

Best leave it to these guys:

I so frakkin want to see this NZ team on team classification podium in Paris doing haka!

UCI, give this team PT license right away with a condition they will do haka all the time!
________
Justin Bieber

 

[TRDean]

The problem is that you don't develop cycling in your country in this way, you need to develop it at the youth and the grassroots level and not by creating a team intent on winning the tour

The problem is this thread and people in it are acting like this is an anglophone thing...it is not...why not criticize Colombia as they have just said the same thing....

 

[theyoungest]

The problem is this thread and people in it are acting like this is an anglophone thing...it is not...why not criticize Colombia as they have just said the same thing....

Because Colombia is a country with a strong (road) cycling culture, rather than a track culture that wants to translate their ideas straight to the road, and find out they can TT, sprint, and not much more.

 

[TRDean]

Because Colombia is a country with a strong (road) cycling culture, rather than a track culture that wants to translate their ideas straight to the road, and find out they can TT, sprint, and not much more.

Granted...but to criticize NZ is crazy. Top down maybe, build a strong pro team...get younger people involved...and build that way.

And lets be honest here...the outcry here initially was "another anglo" country trying to have a quasi nationalistic team...I call bunk on that!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It's not like quasi-nationalistic teams are something new, and something typical anglophone?
The majority of the pro-tour teams are already quasi nationalistic, or are planning to become more nationalistic.
Euskaltel for sure, but also the most French, Spanish and Italian teams. Both Rabobank and Lotto already said they want to focus more on Dutch/Belgian riders.
Teams from smaller countries in cycling terms (Saxo, Astana,...) are more international, because they don't really have a choice.

But quite a lot of these come from places with competition. Liquigas are not a pseudo-Italian national squad because there's also Lampre, Androni, Acqua e Sapone, CarmioOro, Flaminia, CSF etc. etc. FDJ are not a pseudo-French national squad because there's also Ag2r, Cofidis, Bouygues, Saur etc. etc.

Wanting to focus on home riders is one thing - it pleases the sponsors and builds up the fanbase - but teams like Sky are being set up as a vehicle for British cycling. There is almost no other choice. There are no other British teams that offer any viable option, and the presence of a British ProTour team that wants - nay, needs - to have the cream of the British crop limits the options for British riders to get into other teams and develop in any other way.

And it appears to be a fad in the last couple of years for the Anglophone countries to want to set up these quasi-national teams, and they tend to be countries with strong track programs and no real history of road, yet they think they can saunter in with their PR gumf and win the Tour de France within x number of years as if the French, Dutch and Belgians have just not thought it through enough. "if only we'd thought to put riders in wind tunnels like Dave Brailsford, then Christophe Moreau would be a seven-time Tour winner!".

My main problem with these teams is then the way that they race. They come in with such over-the-top promises that they must get results fast. And all they have are converted trackies, who can sprint, TT or sprint and TT. So they contribute the following to races:
1) pull back breaks and go to sprints, creating boring racing;
2) attempt to compete for GC but have no ability to attack in the hills, so do it solely by doing a good TT then wheelsucking through the mountains, creating boring racing.

They all have promise and opportunity and money. And the riders have talent, that there can be no denying. But the obsession with the Tour de France costs riders, who either are mutilated from where their strengths would have been in a vain attempt to make them GC riders (see the hopes being pinned on the likes of Geraint Thomas), or they don't accomplish anything like the results their talent deserves because of their focusing on a goal that is not as eminently achievable (see Evans, Cadel). The riders have great heart. But the teams have no soul.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Granted...but to criticize NZ is crazy. Top down maybe, build a strong pro team...get younger people involved...and build that way.

Top down is a hard way to do it though. I'll use Sky and Britain as an example because it's an obvious one.

Britain has a cycling talent academy. The likes of Cavendish and Thomas have come through it.

But when you finish it, where do you go? The chances are, you're not yet ready to race for Team Sky. Even Cavendish spent a couple of years in Germany at Team Nutrixxion-Sparkasse before moving to T-Mobile. So what do you do? You either go abroad, or you enter the British domestic season. What does the British domestic season consist of? Increasingly, nothing but TTs on open roads and city centre crits. That's not going to create a GT contender anytime soon. What's more, if you go abroad, Team Sky's imperative need to have all of the top level British talent means that they'll snap you up as soon as you start to develop, meaning that you may never finish the apprenticeship at a Belgian or Italian team that will enable you to get stage racing experience.

Difficult to see where a GT contender is going to come with that. There needs to be some kind of feeder team, like Trek-Livestrong, Orbea, Rabobank Continental, Itera-Katyusha, or some kind of British development team like TopSport Vlaanderen, to bridge that gap; to give riders stage racing experience before placing the unreasonable expectations on their shoulders that they will no doubt receive at Team Sky.

 

[Roland Rat]

Top down is a hard way to do it though. I'll use Sky and Britain as an example because it's an obvious one.

Britain has a cycling talent academy. The likes of Cavendish and Thomas have come through it.

But when you finish it, where do you go? The chances are, you're not yet ready to race for Team Sky. Even Cavendish spent a couple of years in Germany at Team Nutrixxion-Sparkasse before moving to T-Mobile. So what do you do? You either go abroad, or you enter the British domestic season. What does the British domestic season consist of? Increasingly, nothing but TTs on open roads and city centre crits. That's not going to create a GT contender anytime soon. What's more, if you go abroad, Team Sky's imperative need to have all of the top level British talent means that they'll snap you up as soon as you start to develop, meaning that you may never finish the apprenticeship at a Belgian or Italian team that will enable you to get stage racing experience.

Difficult to see where a GT contender is going to come with that. There needs to be some kind of feeder team, like Trek-Livestrong, Orbea, Rabobank Continental, Itera-Katyusha, or some kind of British development team like TopSport Vlaanderen, to bridge that gap; to give riders stage racing experience before placing the unreasonable expectations on their shoulders that they will no doubt receive at Team Sky.

100% agree. And while the likes of Peter Kennaugh, who have been groomed through the BC system, will always make it to the top, what about the likes of Alex Dowsett? He wasn't part of the BC system and so his options were join Rapha Condor (who, whilst a good domestic team, won't give you enough opportunities to break into the Euro scene) or go over to the States and join Trek-Livestrong.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

there are world championships and other important u23 races to prove yourself to the world and to bigger teams(that's what bellis did). guess where british riders don't shine?? in internatinal strong level u23 races. have you seen the british team get demolished in the giro bio?? the colombians killed the whole field and therefore I can complely understand why many european teams wait in line to get betancourt but not gary shand or someone else...

 

[simo1733]

I can't critisise Sky for trying to win the tour. Why wouldn't you. But I don't understand why u publicise your tour targets in advance, and then go and build a classics squad without any decent climbers

 

[hrotha]

For what it's worth, I created a fairly successful Aussie team with PCM09. Problem is, almost all my top class riders are foreigners, but it's 2024 now and I have some real Aussie talent... for the classics.

(I also have two decent Aussie GC riders)

I think that's a good representation of how this would go.

 

[labratty]

I wish it would help NZ cycling but it is far far too ambitious and will probably not go anywhere useful. An U23 squad trying to get consistent results in either the Euro or US continental tours is a worthwhile start. Once you have produced a few riders that have gone on to be even outside GC contenders or super-doms for established teams then you might be able to consider your own Pro tour team.
A NZ run Continental team might be enough of a novelty to get a wildcard to one of the bigger 1 week tours but a GT wildcard in the next 5 years is not setting realistic goals.

Also note the money is not there yet, they are looking for an NZ company to bankroll it but don't have it yet, so it may not even get off the ground. That said, Fonterra could pay for this with just the money they lose down the back of the sofa given they control 30% of the world's dairy exports.

 

[jobiwan]

But there's more to cycling than the TdF*. What about the next Cancellara, Boonen, Cav, Thor etc etc. And then if you do happen to chance upon the next Lemond/Fignon etc, then the structure is in place to make the most of it.

Your right, and Phinney won the U23 ParisRoubaix. If they're smart, they'll first let him become a classics guy, and not rush him into a GC guy.

 

[liamclarke4]

i knew the aussies were trying to do team like that but i didnt know canada were as well. also would the likes mtn energade & the team rwanda fall under this. i do think a continental team sky wouldnt be the worse thing in the world. they could have mix of young riders along with maybe chris newton & the downings

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

For what it's worth, I created a fairly successful Aussie team with PCM09. Problem is, almost all my top class riders are foreigners, but it's 2024 now and I have some real Aussie talent... for the classics.

(I also have two decent Aussie GC riders)

I think that's a good representation of how this would go.

pcm is a laughable game

 

[this_is_edie]

why a woman squad?? seriously who cares about that?

A lot of us do. Why are you saying that only men should race professionally? and that only men deserve a development path to the pros?

 

[this_is_edie]

the thing is trek livestrong only have identical riders. they are all itt riders and limited sprinters, nothing more. they have absolute zero gc talent. if you are 6 foot 4 and 185 pounds you are probably never going to win the tour and that is exactly where that team is made from, guys from that size, same with htc columbia nowadays, rogers with 185 and 75 will never be a force. unless you are of such rare talent liker indurain or botero

Agreed. THe concept of trek/livestrong is a good idea. Garmin also has a u23 development arm, which for some reason barely receives an publicity/PR from their own organization. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the garmin u23 is not registered with the UCI and therefore for all intent is a club team.

 

[this_is_edie]

As a serious comment, and while this is going to cause me immense pain to type, I sort of like the Trek-Livestrong/Radioshack set up. It shouldn't be a pro-tour team's job to brng through young talent. An ideal set-up is a lower category U23 "nationalistic" team that then feeds riders to the pro-tour team, freeing up the pro-tour team to concentrate on events and to a certain extent from nationalistic expectations.

Agreed. THe concept of trek/livestrong is a good idea. Garmin also has a u23 development arm, which for some reason barely receives an publicity/PR from their own organization. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the garmin u23 is not registered with the UCI and therefore for all intent is a club team.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

In fact, quite a few Britons were rather annoyed by the lack of a women's squad. If not at first, then definitely when Team Sky were launched, and the whole "minor details that we look at" thing was put up on the website, gushing about how Brailsford and his technological marvels had won Nicole Cooke's Olympic gold medal by putting her in a skinsuit rather than a normal jersey and bib shorts, and taking the credit for her achievement, even as she begged, cap in hand, for some money to keep the team she'd signed for (Equipe Nürnberger Versicherung) afloat after the replacement sponsors pulled out and after her own venture (Vision 1) went under inside of a year. British cycling was keen to sponsor women's cycling when they happened to have some of the best riders in the world with the Olympics coming up, but as soon as the Olympics were gone they dropped the women like a hot potato, yet still took credit for their achievements.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Agreed. THe concept of trek/livestrong is a good idea. Garmin also has a u23 development arm, which for some reason barely receives an publicity/PR from their own organization. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the garmin u23 is not registered with the UCI and therefore for all intent is a club team.

Felt-Holowesko Partners is at the amateur/u23 level, whereas Trek-Livestrong is Continental Pro. Other teams with feeder squads include Rabobank (Rabobank Continental, at Continental Pro), Euskaltel (Orbea, at Continental Pro), Katyusha (Itera-Katyusha at Continental Pro, and Katyusha Continental also at Continental Pro but not racing in Western Europe), Omega Pharma-Lotto (Lotto-Bodysol), TopSport Vlaanderen (Jong Vlaanderen-Bauknecht), ISD (ISD Continental)...

 

[BroDeal]

A new Cycling Team has been formed in New Zealand, Pure black racing, with the goal of racing in the Tour de France by 2015 and ultimately winning the Tour de France with a New Zealand rider. More here- http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/3966778/NZ-team-launch-Tour-de-France-goal

Sounds like they will have to get in line behind Sky for that TdF win.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

A lot of us do. Why are you saying that only men should race professionally? and that only men deserve a development path to the pros?

because I like sport at the highest possible level. until woman can join in on men and be competetive there's no reason for me to wach it. I also don't watch 3rd league football

 

[TRDean]

because I like sport at the highest possible level. until woman can join in on men and be competetive there's no reason for me to wach it. I also don't watch 3rd league football

You are real modernized eh? You like to watch sport at the highest level...probably never been there yourself!! Most if not all of those women could kick your ***!! Your post is ignorant at best.