Nibali at the same level as Froome/Contador?

[Eshnar]

Armstrong vs. Ullrich, alp 'duez '01?

yeah, probably. Nice catch.

 

[icefire]

when is the last time anyone of them gained two minutes on their strongest opponent in a single climb?

edit> when is the last time anybody at all did it.

Sastre. Alpe d'Huez 2008.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Sastre. Alpe d'Huez 2008.

As an Aussie I've tried to forget about that

 

[Eshnar]

Sastre. Alpe d'Huez 2008.

well, they let him go... but you're right. Totally forgot about that.

 

[phanatic]

when is the last time anyone of them gained two minutes on their strongest opponent in a single climb?

edit> when is the last time anybody at all did it.

A lot of near misses: Quintana stage 16 Giro 2014. He was already ahead of them of course. Samu was closer but Bertie and Andy put three minutes into everyone else on the Madelaine in 2010. Andy again at Galibier but a two mountain attack.

 

[whittashau]

""My condition's been very good, but I've never looked to push right to the end, I think that you can see this from my face," Nibali said. "When I get to the finish, I've never given everything because there hasn't been the need. You need to think of the following day's stage, where you never know when you could have a crisis or something. So I've never had to push too much.""

Telling quote, and if indeed true it makes a lot of the arguments in this thread defunct

 

[alin.constantin89]

""My condition's been very good, but I've never looked to push right to the end, I think that you can see this from my face," Nibali said. "When I get to the finish, I've never given everything because there hasn't been the need. You need to think of the following day's stage, where you never know when you could have a crisis or something. So I've never had to push too much.""

Telling quote, and if indeed true it makes a lot of the arguments in this thread defunct

he's a very calculated man.

 

[pigoonse]

he's a very calculated man.

On the road he can also be unpredictable and spontaneous - like the Jenkins road attack (and the way he rode the cobbles!) those were nice surprises.

And there is still a few days left...not over yet. I think he won't risk it because there is a long TT left, but I sure would like to see him win the last mountain stage.

 

[Cookster15]

""My condition's been very good, but I've never looked to push right to the end, I think that you can see this from my face," Nibali said. "When I get to the finish, I've never given everything because there hasn't been the need. You need to think of the following day's stage, where you never know when you could have a crisis or something. So I've never had to push too much.""

Telling quote, and if indeed true it makes a lot of the arguments in this thread defunct

Spot on. Its about time the doubters acknowledged Nibali is the worthy champion with or without AC and Froome.

 

[Publicus]

Spot on. Its about time the doubters acknowledged Nibali is the worthy champion with or without AC and Froome.

The last part is just trying to stir the pot. He's a worthy champion, full stop. Just as we can't know whether Froome or AC could have recouped the time they lost before they both exited the race, we also can't know that they wouldn't have buried Nibali in the later stages.

 

[ggusta]

The last part is just trying to stir the pot. He's a worthy champion, full stop. Just as we can't know whether Froome or AC could have recouped the time they lost before they both exited the race, we also can't know that they wouldn't have buried Nibali in the later stages.

We'll never know about what never happened and some folks seem a tad defensive about what they perceive as a victory (assuming one) being less valid in their own eyes andn ot in anyone else's. I'll never know what would have happened in 2007 has Rasmussen not been removed and never gave it a 2nd thought, some of Nibali's defenders (or maybe they are just Froome's and Contador's haters) just can't seem to let it go.

It's like they have tourette's syndrome/ grand mal inferiority complex, anytime the subject even sort of heads that way there is a sort of freak out defensively with no real provocation. Getting kind of old.


Maybe AC and Froome can come back next year in the form of their lives with the teams of their dreams and he can scrub the floor with them, maybe then they will calm down. touchy touchy touchy

 

[SeriousSam]

""My condition's been very good, but I've never looked to push right to the end, I think that you can see this from my face," Nibali said. "When I get to the finish, I've never given everything because there hasn't been the need. You need to think of the following day's stage, where you never know when you could have a crisis or something. So I've never had to push too much.""

Telling quote, and if indeed true it makes a lot of the arguments in this thread defunct

With all the (deserved) questions about CONTADOR AND FROOME he's been getting, I think he now feels the need to pretend that he isn't even trying hard when, clearly, he's been on the limit a few times. He was close to cracking when Pinot put in that devastating acceleration and has repeatedly been unable to shake noted elite climber Peraud.

Very smart riding though, and certainly a worthy winner amongst those that still compete for the Tour.

 

[Ledigi]

I remember Peraud vs Froome in Crit. Int. 2013 ... Nibali should talk less and thank god that first 2 big favorites crashed out. edit : and the 3rd big one was winning the Giro.

 

[whittashau]

With all the (deserved) questions about CONTADOR AND FROOME he's been getting, I think he now feels the need to pretend that he isn't even trying hard when, clearly, he's been on the limit a few times. He was close to cracking when Pinot put in that devastating acceleration and has repeatedly been unable to shake noted elite climber Peraud.

Very smart riding though, and certainly a worthy winner amongst those that still compete for the Tour.

Clearly? he was clearly about to go on a 10km descent and therefore it is highly plausible that he chose not to follow and that he wasn't on the limit

Unable to shake, but it honestly doesn't seem like he's trying that hard. He rode with De Marchi for 2 kms on today's stage at the end. Seems far more likely to me that he was taking it easy rather than pretending like he wasn't trying hard.

I understand that you want the narrative to fit your opinions, but everything he has said is actually rather plausible.

If everything he has been saying are lies he's by far one of the most committed actors in cycling history. Because that means he deliberately in a split second decided to take a bottle to cover up his bonk, and he's deliberately gone to great lengths to make it look like he wasn't breathing hard on multiple uphill finishes.

 

[Climbing]

Clearly 2013 Giro and 2014 Tour Nibali are pretty much on similar level, and this Tour design clearly favored him in the first part.

 

[Tom T.]

If everything he has been saying are lies he's by far one of the most committed actors in cycling history.

See Armstrong, Lance.

 

[SeriousSam]

If everything he has been saying are lies he's by far one of the most committed actors in cycling history. Because that means he deliberately in a split second decided to take a bottle to cover up his bonk, and he's deliberately gone to great lengths to make it look like he wasn't breathing hard on multiple uphill finishes.

Did you see his amazing recovery from when the podium girl didn't want to kiss him? In a split second, he knew how to salvage the situation and save face. Implausibly good acting. Not normal. I'd be wary of this De Niro of cycling.

 

[rzombie1988]

I'd go:

Tier 1
AC
Froome

Tier 2
Quintana
Evans
Nibali
Wiggins

Tier 3
Valverde
JRod(Say what you will but he still hasn't won a big one no matter how much the odds were in his favor)


Tier 4
People like Uran, Henao, Pinot, TJ, Sam Sanchez, Porte, Schleck, etc

Say what you will about Nibali, but he has never beaten Froome or AC 1 on 1 in a GT and got completely owned by AC in past GT's.

 

[richwagmn]

It's so hard to know without Froome/Contador being there.

I'm inclined to say he's not. But right now, he doesn't look under any pressure at all.

 

[Afrank]

Tier 2
Quintana
Evans
Nibali
Wiggins

Evans and Wiggins don't deserve to be anywhere near Quintana and Nibali. Evans and Wiggins are in decline and Quintana and Nibali on the rise and head and shoulders above.

 

[rzombie1988]

Evans and Wiggins don't deserve to be anywhere near Quintana and Nibali. Evans and Wiggins are in decline and Quintana and Nibali on the rise and head and shoulders above.

These are mostly opinion, so who knows.

We don't know about Wiggins. It's impossible to say about him since he hasn't done any GT's. I don't really count the 2013 Giro because it was obvious he did not want to be there. If he had been in this race though, he would have been an instant favorite and may have been able to pull it off with Porte.

Evans is on his way down for sure and I'm not a big fan of his, but I do think he would have made the most out of the situation in this tour and certainly wouldn't have lost that much on the cobbles.

For sure Quintana is on his way up but I don't see him quite up to Froome/AC's level yet. The Giro he won didn't have a great field and he did get owned by Froome in last year's Tour.

As I said, I can't put Nibali up there with Froome and Contador. He got sandblasted and destroyed in the 2012 Giro by AC and last year he was still 3 minutes down on Froome. He was also 7 minutes down on Contador at the 09 Tour. He's never beaten either 1 on 1 in a GT.

 

[lenric]

These are mostly opinion, so who knows.

We don't know about Wiggins. It's impossible to say about him since he hasn't done any GT's. I don't really count the 2013 Giro because it was obvious he did not want to be there. If he had been in this race though, he would have been an instant favorite and may have been able to pull it off with Porte.

Evans is on his way down for sure and I'm not a big fan of his, but I do think he would have made the most out of the situation in this tour and certainly wouldn't have lost that much on the cobbles.

For sure Quintana is on his way up but I don't see him quite up to Froome/AC's level yet. The Giro he won didn't have a great field and he did get owned by Froome in last year's Tour.

As I said, I can't put Nibali up there with Froome and Contador. He got sandblasted and destroyed in the 2012 Giro by AC and last year he was still 3 minutes down on Froome. He was also 7 minutes down on Contador at the 09 Tour. He's never beaten either 1 on 1 in a GT.

Evans would be 15 minutes down at least so far. He wasn't capable of handling Rolland or even Majka 2 months ago. So no, it's not an opinion, it's a fact.

Wiggins may be or may not be declining, but he's nowhere near Quintana nor Nibali. And since this year's tour only has 1 TT, he wouldn't be able to gain the time lost to them in the mountain stages.

And I can't understand how Evans may be placed above Uran, when Uran was 2nd in this year's Giro...

From those you guys you named, Sanchez and maybe (big maybe, because of the TT) Schleck are the ones who may be at the same level of Evans, everybody else is just superior.

 

[rzombie1988]

Evans would be 15 minutes down at least so far. He wasn't capable of handling Rolland or even Majka 2 months ago. So no, it's not an opinion, it's a fact.

Wiggins may be or may not be declining, but he's nowhere near Quintana nor Nibali. And since this year's tour only has 1 TT, he wouldn't be able to gain the time lost to them in the mountain stages.

And I can't understand how Evans may be placed above Uran, when Uran was 2nd in this year's Giro...

From those you guys you named, Sanchez and maybe (big maybe, because of the TT) Schleck are the ones who may be at the same level of Evans, everybody else is just superior.

Uran still hasn't won a GT. There's no way he wins at the Vuelta if he competes, and I wouldn't favor him over Nibali at this point, who I assumed would be his main Giro 2015 competitor. I guess the Vuelta 2015 is a possibility, but that's a long way off.

I'm a bit outdated though, so I don't have the strongest argument.

 

[whittashau]

From his list it's clear he didn't watch the Giro

Mentioning Schleck and Sanchez, but not Aru or Kelderman. And how is Evans second tier? Even if you didn't watch cycling this year he got crushed by Nibali in the Giro last year as well.

 

[rzombie1988]

From his list it's clear he didn't watch the Giro

Mentioning Schleck and Sanchez, but not Aru or Kelderman. And how is Evans second tier? Even if you didn't watch cycling this year he got crushed by Nibali in the Giro last year as well.

I caught the end of the Giro, but remember, I'm in USA man. Cycling ends at 11:30AM most of the time here. Everyone is at work then and unless you have Comcast, you likely can't even watch the Giro anyway on TV. The only reason I can even follow the tour this time is because I happen to be working 3PM-Midnight this month, which somehow turned out to be a good thing.