Nibali's sticky bottle

[Queens Boulevard]

Re:

Hahahahah wasn't it Nibali who made the comment about Froome being thrown out of the Giro, because of the same thing? In a pre vuelta interview.

Yeah it's like 10,000 spoons when all you need is knife.

 

[Wattie]

Re: Re:

I heard that it was Fabio Aru who alerted the commissaires.

Link?

Joke about Aru having full leadership now

Now all Aru has to do is get rid of that pesky Landa chappie and he's in charge.

 

[No_Balls]

Re:

Hahahahah wasn't it Nibali who made the comment about Froome being thrown out of the Giro, because of the same thing? In a pre vuelta interview.

It was.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nibali-and-aru-show-united-front-ahead-of-vuelta-a-espaa/

 

[Afrank]

Re: Re:

What the f*ck was Nibali thinking! That was an incredibly stupid thing to do.

I'm as big a Nibali fan as anyone on this forum, but I can't find any viable reason that would justify something like that.

I blame Shefer for it.
And when it started happening, Nibali couldn't let.

Both are to blame, Nibali shouldn't have grabbed on to begin with.

The grab per se is something I accept is normal (not as in normal by the rules, but generally accepted and unworthy of much attention). The rest was mental.

It might be normal and accepted in the peloton. But that doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

If a rider crashes and uses the car for a draft, that's fine. They are still using their own energy.
If a rider has to hold onto a car for their bike or wounds to be attended to that's find too. They have to get the problem fixed somehow without stopping.
Sticky bottles is pushing it, but at least in those cases it's only for a few seconds at most.

But intentionally grabbing onto the car and letting it do the work for you when there doesn't exist a reason to do the work yourself? That is cheating by it's very definition and should be met with a DQ regardless of circumstances.

 

[Flamin]

10 minutes penalty meant he was out of GC so that would have been enough for me. Like I said in the race thread, it's not like this 10 seconds hanging onto the car would have given him any sort of benefit for the upcoming stages whatsoever when he goes hunting for stages. Get him out of the GC and go on. If he'd won a stage later in the race, it would be fair and square.

On the other hand, I understand the decision to make a statement. It was just too obvious. I'm sure nothing would have happened if Nibali was on his own, but there were other riders in his wheel and he rode away just like that

 

[Wattie]

Re: Re:

I heard that it was Fabio Aru who alerted the commissaires.

I doubt that. It wouldnt only be stupid, there is also no reason why he should even have known what Nibali did, before the commissaires.

Indeed. It was a joke, perhaps not a very funny one, but a joke nonetheless.

 

[Carols]

“The film is very clear, it shows that Nibali has put his hand on the car for 100 metres,” Valcic said. “So the penalty for this is very clear. The decision of the commissaires is very clear, Vincenzo Nibali has been disqualified from the race.”

So he wasn't hanging onto a bottle, but the car. There is only one penalty for that and it was applied and rightfully so. Stupid actions by Nibs and Astana.

Martinelli saying 'others do it' is No excuse. People need to grow up and accept responsibility for their own behavior. You break the rules, you pay the price.

I'm one of the biggest Nibs fans on this forum, but he did wrong. I sure will miss him in this race though......

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

I heard that it was Fabio Aru who alerted the commissaires.

Link?

Joke about Aru having full leadership now

Oh sorry. Ya, makes sense.

 

[Rollthedice]

I'm taking a few days off to watch my hero "tranquilo" at home and instead his brain and all the Astana staff's brain took a day off. This is the first GT he will not finish. So dumb.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

What the f*ck was Nibali thinking! That was an incredibly stupid thing to do.

I'm as big a Nibali fan as anyone on this forum, but I can't find any viable reason that would justify something like that.

I blame Shefer for it.
And when it started happening, Nibali couldn't let.

Both are to blame, Nibali shouldn't have grabbed on to begin with.

The grab per se is something I accept is normal (not as in normal by the rules, but generally accepted and unworthy of much attention). The rest was mental.

It might be normal and accepted in the peloton. But that doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

If a rider crashes and uses the car for a draft, that's fine. They are still using their own energy.
If a rider has to hold onto a car for their bike or wounds to be attended to that's find too. They have to get the problem fixed somehow without stopping.
Sticky bottles is pushing it, but at least in those cases it's only for a few seconds at most.

But intentionally grabbing onto the car and letting it do the work for you when there doesn't exist a reason to do the work yourself? That is cheating by it's very definition and should be met with a DQ regardless of circumstances.

Are you serious here? I see absolutely no difference at all when riders get behind the team car which then deliberately accelerates and who you then see flying past other riders who're not drafting. It's the exact same thing and gets rarely punished other than a lame fine or seconds time penalty.

 

[rm7]

Re:

10 minutes penalty meant he was out of GC so that would have been enough for me. Like I said in the race thread, it's not like this 10 seconds hanging onto the car would have given him any sort of benefit for the upcoming stages whatsoever when he goes hunting for stages. Get him out of the GC and go on. If he'd won a stage later in the race, it would be fair and square.

On the other hand, I understand the decision to make a statement. It was just too obvious. I'm sure nothing would have happened if Nibali was on his own, but there were other riders in his wheel and he rode away just like that

Yeah sure, nobody would've noticed the big speed difference. It was really just plain stupid.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

10 minutes penalty meant he was out of GC so that would have been enough for me. Like I said in the race thread, it's not like this 10 seconds hanging onto the car would have given him any sort of benefit for the upcoming stages whatsoever when he goes hunting for stages. Get him out of the GC and go on. If he'd won a stage later in the race, it would be fair and square.

On the other hand, I understand the decision to make a statement. It was just too obvious. I'm sure nothing would have happened if Nibali was on his own, but there were other riders in his wheel and he rode away just like that

Yeah sure, nobody would've noticed the big speed difference. It was really just plain stupid.

Of course everyone would have noticed, but it wouldn't have looked so ridiculous as it did now. Not even close. People would probably have complained, but no way would Nibali be DQ'd.

 

[StannisBaratheon]

The Lord of Sicily was too powerful, and now the Spaniards have found an excuse to remove him from the race.

 

[Afrank]

Re: Re:

It might be normal and accepted in the peloton. But that doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

If a rider crashes and uses the car for a draft, that's fine. They are still using their own energy.
If a rider has to hold onto a car for their bike or wounds to be attended to that's find too. They have to get the problem fixed somehow without stopping.
Sticky bottles is pushing it, but at least in those cases it's only for a few seconds at most.

But intentionally grabbing onto the car and letting it do the work for you when there doesn't exist a reason to do the work yourself? That is cheating by it's very definition and should be met with a DQ regardless of circumstances.

Are you serious here? I see absolutely no difference at all when riders get behind the team car which then deliberately accelerates and who you then see flying past other riders who're not drafting. It's the exact same thing and gets rarely punished other than a lame fine or seconds time penalty.

In some cases of serious drafting behind a team car it should be met with the same or similar punishments. The situation I'm thinking of is if the rider is in the peloton and crashes. Then a little bit of drafting so they can just get back to the peloton I think is acceptable.

 

[Wattie]

A someone said "sometimes you're the hammer, sometimes you're the nail". Today Nibali was just a complete tool.

 

[sir fly]

I'm thinking about the whole situation and the best description of what I feel is - dulled.

 

[StannisBaratheon]

Disqualification is way too much, should have given him 10 minutes penalty as someone said, and that should solve the whole GC dilemma. Let him go for stages or at least help his teammates. Stupid Vuelta organisers screwed up in two consecutive days.

 

[Tank Engine]

Re:

http://www.npo.nl/nos-studio-sport-wielrennen-tour-de-france/17-07-2015/POW_01110533

Watch at 2 hours 13. Peraud and Lavenu close a 2 minute gap. Nobody had any problems with that. 10 secs penalty and 50 swiss francs fine.

The Ag2R car clearly accelerates and so yes, I agree that a 10secs penalty is pathetic in the circumstances.

a) I was walking in the mountains during the middle of the tour, so I didn't have any problems with that
b) Two inconsistencies don't make a right

c) It's hypothetical, since there are two possible infringements and one specified penalty in each case.
In Nibali's case, if a 10 minute penalty were possible according to the rules, that would seem reasonable. In Peraud's case, he wasn't a GC contender, so at that point 10secs or 10mins would be academic. Maybe hit the team with a penalty (like loss of a car for a couple of days). But that would have to be an option under the rules.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Disqualification is way too much, should have given him 10 minutes penalty as someone said, and that should solve the whole GC dilemma. Let him go for stages or at least help his teammates. Stupid Vuelta organisers screwed up in two consecutive days.

It's not in the rules for them to do that. As was said in the other thread; if you give time penalties for holding on to a car; half the peloton - those out of GC contention - would do it on mountain stages.

 

[Wattie]

Surely the point is that a second or two of sticky bottle is something the commissaires can turn a blind eye to, the same for a little bit of drafting, but to use the team car to completely accelerate away from a bunch of riders like that (and in full view of the cameras) is so blatant that the judges are left with no choice but to DQ him.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re:

won't be many riders or ds's left by the end of la vuelta if they're consistent

1.000 + ...

 

[StannisBaratheon]

Re: Re:

Disqualification is way too much, should have given him 10 minutes penalty as someone said, and that should solve the whole GC dilemma. Let him go for stages or at least help his teammates. Stupid Vuelta organisers screwed up in two consecutive days.

It's not in the rules for them to do that. As was said in the other thread; if you give time penalties for holding on to a car; half the peloton - those out of GC contention - would do it on mountain stages.

They already do it, but it is not seen on the cameras.
The rules are as dumb as the Vuelta organisers, and frankly they already didn't give a damn about rules when they screwed up the TTT in day one.
It is a disgrace these guys are part of a Grand Tour staff. Even the whole saga of Stelvio in last year's Giro looks absolutely normal comparing to what it is happening in Vuelta.

I should send an army to take care of them, but I am out of sellswords after Winterfell.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

Surely the point is that a second or two of sticky bottle is something the commissaires can turn a blind eye to, the same for a little bit of drafting, but to use the team car to completely accelerate away from a bunch of riders like that (and in full view of the cameras) is so blatant that the judges are left with no choice but to DQ him.

Exactly!

 

[roundabout]

Re:

10 minutes penalty meant he was out of GC so that would have been enough for me. Like I said in the race thread, it's not like this 10 seconds hanging onto the car would have given him any sort of benefit for the upcoming stages whatsoever when he goes hunting for stages. Get him out of the GC and go on. If he'd won a stage later in the race, it would be fair and square.

On the other hand, I understand the decision to make a statement. It was just too obvious. I'm sure nothing would have happened if Nibali was on his own, but there were other riders in his wheel and he rode away just like that

Allegedly, it was more than 10 seconds. A lot more.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Disqualification is way too much, should have given him 10 minutes penalty as someone said, and that should solve the whole GC dilemma. Let him go for stages or at least help his teammates. Stupid Vuelta organisers screwed up in two consecutive days.

It's not in the rules for them to do that. As was said in the other thread; if you give time penalties for holding on to a car; half the peloton - those out of GC contention - would do it on mountain stages.

They already do it, but it is not seen on the cameras.
The rules are as dumb as the Vuelta organisers, and frankly they already didn't give a damn about rules when they screwed up the TTT in day one.
It is a disgrace these guys are part of a Grand Tour staff. Even the whole saga of Stelvio in last year's Giro looks absolutely normal comparing to what it is happening in Vuelta.

I agree that organisation of GT's has been poor in recent years. But I don't see what that has to do with the organisers applying the rules correctly in the case of pretty blatant cheating, as they did today.

It would have been more ludicrous to make up an arbitary 5 minute penalty outside the rules.