Nibali's sticky bottle

[NairoQ]

Re: Re:

Of course it does, a yellow card in soccer bothers a player who already has one more than it bothers another player.

Penalties are never the same for everyone, and 10 minutes would've prevented any gc contenders from doing something like this in the near future (which is what we all want...). Who cares that nr 147 hangs on a team car and is a little less tired, taking Nibali out of the race just partially ruins it. Own mistake, but crappy punishment. Does anyone even believe this would've happened to a Spaniard?

Of course not, if Valverde was in the same situation, the Vuelta organisers would have brought him back in the peloton using a special TGV

Thanks for the contribution. What I'm saying is that right now, rules are sometimes applied (correctly), but only sometimes and selectively. In other sports there's a control system for such decision makers (referees have reputation, and 'permanent' penalties can sometimes be undone), which just isn't there in cycling.

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

won't be many riders or ds's left by the end of la vuelta if they're consistent

If the get caught on a video doing the same thing they will probably do the same! Not sure why you are surprised.

it happens all the time. During tour de france every day there are atleast 5 guys that get fined for this. 50 swiss francs plus 10 secs penalty. ANd now suddenly they throw a guy out of the race. Just can't believe it.

The fact that you can't seem to recognize this wasn't the same type of thing we typically see is amazing. There's a reason that despite the fact that most on this forum are Nibali fans, almost no one agrees with your opinion that it only warranted a 10 second penalty.

Why is it any different from the Peraud thing I linked to a couple pages back?

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

What a shame for the race.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re: Re:

[quote="
No they wouldn't. They would have given him a bike immediately and got the whole team back to support him and get him back on.

And you can prove that with anything else but your words?

It happens all the time in Grand Tours. Leader crashes, the whole team waits, he gets a bike as a priority if needed, then the whole team paces him back to the peloton.

They don't abandon him, leave him searching for a bike for over a minute, then leave him alone towing a large group, then finally allow him to hold on to a speeding car for a couple of hundred metres.

No, but they would speed up behind a car drafting. Happens all the time... with cams on it or not... The rule book is a felt 1.000 pages, and yet they dont have a 10 min penalty in there? But had it back in 1979? Sorry, dont buy that BS... Especially not when x sprinters finish OOT in a GT and yet are left in the race. Inconsistent nitpickers at its "finest". Level of incompetence reached far and beyond... Poltics meet sports.

Lets just think this through for a minute. If they were to apply a 10min GC time penalty to any rider who gets towed by a car then every non GC rider in the peleton would be doing it constantly lol!!!

LOL.. LOLZ... Lets assume a rider like Porte gets attached 2 mins for a bike change, would a rider placed 128 th care? You see? You see? ... Can always find something to excuse...[/quote]

Er... This makes little sense.[/quote]

As yours.... What punishes CG riders leaves nothing on sprinters, same the other way around... But that doesnt excuse not to have rules in a big book that actually make sense (like a 10 min pen for CG riders instead of expulsion).

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re:

Of course it does, a yellow card in soccer bothers a player who already has one more than it bothers another player.

Penalties are never the same for everyone, and 10 minutes would've prevented any gc contenders from doing something like this in the near future (which is what we all want...). Who cares that nr 147 hangs on a team car and is a little less tired, taking Nibali out of the race just partially ruins it. Own mistake, but crappy punishment. Does anyone even believe this would've happened to a Spaniard?

1+... At least one who actually got it.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

won't be many riders or ds's left by the end of la vuelta if they're consistent

If the get caught on a video doing the same thing they will probably do the same! Not sure why you are surprised.

it happens all the time. During tour de france every day there are atleast 5 guys that get fined for this. 50 swiss francs plus 10 secs penalty. ANd now suddenly they throw a guy out of the race. Just can't believe it.

The fact that you can't seem to recognize this wasn't the same type of thing we typically see is amazing. There's a reason that despite the fact that most on this forum are Nibali fans, almost no one agrees with your opinion that it only warranted a 10 second penalty.

Why is it any different from the Peraud thing I linked to a couple pages back?

If you can't see why, I don't think I can help you. And yes, Peraud deserved more than a 10" second penalty as well.

 

[Poursuivant]

Re:

Hahahahah wasn't it Nibali who made the comment about Froome being thrown out of the Giro, because of the same thing? In a pre vuelta interview.

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

Why is it any different from the Peraud thing I linked to a couple pages back?

If you can't see why, I don't think I can help you. And yes, Peraud deserved more than a 10" second penalty as well.

Explain to me why cause I don't see it. They both were caught behind because of a crash. They both hold onto a bottle to get back to a group in front of them. One gets 10 secs the other gets thrown out of the race.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Per quello che é successo oggi chiedo veramente a tutti le scuse pubbliche, per chiunque sia indignato o vergognato per me!! Molti di voi non hanno mai corso in bici , altri sono grandi tifosi altri pura passione, ed altri ancora si sono avvicinati negli ultimi anni!! La bici il ciclismo è passione, amore , giornate lontano dalla famiglia con allenamenti estenuanti, sacrifici troppi che iniziano già all'età di 16 anni circa!! Quello che è successo oggi alla Vuelta succede in ogni gara ciò non deve dimostrare che non è sbagliato e devo restare impunito!!! La giusta punizione da scontare la dettano i giudici. Un anno andato male per mille motivi arrivo alla Vuelta con la voglia di riscatto da una stagione infame , mi ritrovo alla prima tappa scusando l'espressione con il culo per terra , ti rialzi aiutato da un compagno sperando di non esserti fatto male,ti guardi le ferite lasciate addosso dall'asfalto rovente e cerchi la tua bici che andata distrutta , panico e caos nel gruppo, tardo a partire ...tanto... Troppo al punto che quando risalgo sulla mia bici ho un ritardo di 1:20 , mi fiondo all'inseguimento senza paura, senza acqua da solo, piano piano guadagno terreno e trovo i miei compagni che mi aspettano lunga la strada , a testa che pensa che devo andare e devo rimanere davanti in corsa per quelle persone che mi guardano, per quelle che mi amano, per mia moglie, mia figlia e per quelli che si staranno domandando come sto , vado avanti per far vedere che non mi sono fatto niente , fino a quello sbaglio che mi costa caro una trainata di 150 metri di cui molti sono pronti a gettare del fango , (è rientrato per che si è attaccato)nessuno sottolinea che è caduto è stato attaccato, è da solo all'inseguimento contro 18 corridori che spingono a tutta davanti!! no signori nel ciclismo la corsa è corsa nessuno ti aspetta!! Nel ciclismo episodi come questi ce ne sono molti a maggior ragione dopo una caduta!! Alla fine tutto avrei pensato una multa salata da pagare ed una penalizzazione come si usa fare per restare fuori classifica!!! Avrei accettato anche una penalità di dieci minuti!! Dopo tutto IO non sarò il primo ne l'ultimo di questa vicenda. Mi scuso ancora per avervi rubato del tempo e grazie del sostegno o meno che mi date !! Buona serata a presto ! Vince

Can anyone translate?

 

[cadence]

Re: Re:

Why is it any different from the Peraud thing I linked to a couple pages back?

If you can't see why, I don't think I can help you. And yes, Peraud deserved more than a 10" second penalty as well.

Explain to me why cause I don't see it. They both were caught behind because of a crash. They both hold onto a bottle to get back to a group in front of them. One gets 10 secs the other gets thrown out of the race.

Technicalities of the rule book. The reason why it's called a sticky bottle is the fact that it involves holding onto a bottle for a bit too long. Nibali just went full *** and held onto the actual car... which accelerated... in full view from a chasing group... televised on live TV. Nothing they could do but DQ him

 

[uspostal]

What the hell was that, is he now the Tom Brady of cycling good riddance to him.

I would have loved to see the faces of the guys he was riding with, and hear their response as he seemed to motor away from them, as if being pulled by a car.

 

[Poursuivant]

The fact that he brought attention to Froome's indiscretion after his antics in the Alps makes it all the more hilarious. Zero class

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

meh. Sticky bottles happens all the time, he was just unfortunate enoug to get caught to such an extent by the cameras (and of course, it was a pretty bad one). Should just keep his head low, try to sound sincere when apologizing and get ready for next year

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

when you see the footage

it's very convincing and easy (for me ) to agree with the decision the officials have made

d!ck move from nibs and the team car

a real shame for the race

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Why is it any different from the Peraud thing I linked to a couple pages back?

If you can't see why, I don't think I can help you. And yes, Peraud deserved more than a 10" second penalty as well.

Explain to me why cause I don't see it. They both were caught behind because of a crash. They both hold onto a bottle to get back to a group in front of them. One gets 10 secs the other gets thrown out of the race.

People have already told you because it was really blatant as compared to the other one. However, I would have given more than 10" to Peraud .

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Of course it does, a yellow card in soccer bothers a player who already has one more than it bothers another player.

Penalties are never the same for everyone, and 10 minutes would've prevented any gc contenders from doing something like this in the near future (which is what we all want...). Who cares that nr 147 hangs on a team car and is a little less tired, taking Nibali out of the race just partially ruins it. Own mistake, but crappy punishment. Does anyone even believe this would've happened to a Spaniard?

Of course not, if Valverde was in the same situation, the Vuelta organisers would have brought him back in the peloton using a special TGV

That would explain them giving Froome a time gap at the line when there clearly wasn't one.

 

[hrotha]

The whole notion of complaining about how the jury might be unfair in a completely imaginary scenario is rather funny.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Why is it any different from the Peraud thing I linked to a couple pages back?

If you can't see why, I don't think I can help you. And yes, Peraud deserved more than a 10" second penalty as well.

Explain to me why cause I don't see it. They both were caught behind because of a crash. They both hold onto a bottle to get back to a group in front of them. One gets 10 secs the other gets thrown out of the race.

Nibali held on to the car (technicality, but still)
Nibali held on longer
Nibali was leading a large group and used the car to drop them all (It doesn't matter that it wasn't the front group)

And even if it was exactly the same, Peraud would deserve a bigger penalty, not a 10" penalty for Nibali.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

The whole notion of complaining about how the jury might be unfair in a completely imaginary scenario is rather funny.

Nice one.

 

[Stelvio]

Drafting for a bit after a wheel change, ok (it's up to the commisaire to decide how the caravan acts).
A quick brake-fix after a bike change, don't overdo it...
A too sticky bottle, time penalty.
Setting a new flat road speed record while holding on to a car for dear life, bu-bye.

This was just too blatant. And like Portes Giro wheel change, I feel the penalty is just. That kind of action is never justifiable; it's pretty much mechanical doping.

As in real life, not all those that break rules are punished, that does not mean that no one should be punished.

And if the quote DenisMenchov posted is somewhat correctly translated by Google, he lost an opportunity to apologize.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re:

As in real life, not all those that break rules are punished, that does not mean that no one should be punished.

Actually this is real life (guys doing a job for money; no different than a nitpicker sitting on a stool putting numbers in a computer for some "important" things)...

Further: Rules should be applied the same way to everybody. If not its arbitrariness... So one believing in fairness must completely disagree with your statement.

 

[Jancouver]

Re:

Per quello che é successo oggi chiedo veramente a tutti le scuse pubbliche, per chiunque sia indignato o vergognato per me!! Molti di voi non hanno mai corso in bici , altri sono grandi tifosi altri pura passione, ed altri ancora si sono avvicinati negli ultimi anni!! La bici il ciclismo è passione, amore , giornate lontano dalla famiglia con allenamenti estenuanti, sacrifici troppi che iniziano già all'età di 16 anni circa!! Quello che è successo oggi alla Vuelta succede in ogni gara ciò non deve dimostrare che non è sbagliato e devo restare impunito!!! La giusta punizione da scontare la dettano i giudici. Un anno andato male per mille motivi arrivo alla Vuelta con la voglia di riscatto da una stagione infame , mi ritrovo alla prima tappa scusando l'espressione con il culo per terra , ti rialzi aiutato da un compagno sperando di non esserti fatto male,ti guardi le ferite lasciate addosso dall'asfalto rovente e cerchi la tua bici che andata distrutta , panico e caos nel gruppo, tardo a partire ...tanto... Troppo al punto che quando risalgo sulla mia bici ho un ritardo di 1:20 , mi fiondo all'inseguimento senza paura, senza acqua da solo, piano piano guadagno terreno e trovo i miei compagni che mi aspettano lunga la strada , a testa che pensa che devo andare e devo rimanere davanti in corsa per quelle persone che mi guardano, per quelle che mi amano, per mia moglie, mia figlia e per quelli che si staranno domandando come sto , vado avanti per far vedere che non mi sono fatto niente , fino a quello sbaglio che mi costa caro una trainata di 150 metri di cui molti sono pronti a gettare del fango , (è rientrato per che si è attaccato)nessuno sottolinea che è caduto è stato attaccato, è da solo all'inseguimento contro 18 corridori che spingono a tutta davanti!! no signori nel ciclismo la corsa è corsa nessuno ti aspetta!! Nel ciclismo episodi come questi ce ne sono molti a maggior ragione dopo una caduta!! Alla fine tutto avrei pensato una multa salata da pagare ed una penalizzazione come si usa fare per restare fuori classifica!!! Avrei accettato anche una penalità di dieci minuti!! Dopo tutto IO non sarò il primo ne l'ultimo di questa vicenda. Mi scuso ancora per avervi rubato del tempo e grazie del sostegno o meno che mi date !! Buona serata a presto ! Vince

Can anyone translate?

I googled it for you ...

For what has happened today I really wonder at all the public apology, for anyone who is angry or ashamed for me !! Many of you have ever run a bike, others are big fans blackberries pure passion, and others have come close in recent years !! The bike cycling is passion, love, days away from family with grueling workouts, too many sacrifices That start at the age of about 16 years !! What happened today in the Vuelta happens in every race this Should not evidence That it is wrong and I have to go unpunished !!! Just punishment to be served dictate the judges. A year gone wrong for many Reasons arrival at the Vuelta with the desire for redemption from a season infamous, I find myself at the first stop apologizing expression with the butt on the ground, you get up again helped by a companion hoping not signing hurt, you look the wounds left on the hot asphalt and circles your bike was destroyed, panic and chaos in the group, starting late ... Too much ... to the point That When I go back on my bike I have a delay of 1 : 20, The sling pursuit without fear, without water only slowly gain ground and find my companions waiting for me a long way, to head That thinks That I have to go and I have to stay ahead in the race for Those People who look at Me, For Those Who love me, for my wife, my daughter and for Those Who Will Be wondering how I am, I go on to show That I have not done anything, up to the mistake That cost me dear driven 150 meters of Which many are ready to throw mud, (returned to you is attached) emphasizes That no one fell was attacked, it is alone in pursuit against 18 racers That push the whole front !! no gentlemen in cycling race is run no waiting !! In cycling episodes like these there are many more so after a fall !! In the end all I would have thought to pay a hefty fine and a penalty as they do to stay off the charts !!! I also accepted a penalty of ten minutes !! After all I will not be the first nor the last of this story. I apologize again for having stolen some time and with the support or not you give me !! Good evening to you soon! Vince

 

[yespatterns]

The jackass got what he deserved. I for one won't cheer him on in his future endeavors, not that they care. Astana needs to go in so many ways now.

 

[joe_papp]

Re:

The jackass got what he deserved. I for one won't cheer him on in his future endeavors, not that they care. Astana needs to go in so many ways now.

I agree that no one should really cry for Nibali, since straight-up holding onto the team car is an infraction that everyone on the bike in the race knows is so verboten that it would be better to concede the time unless absolutely sure that you weren't being filmed or otherwise observed by a commissaire - or friend of a commissaire.

But people who rage against Astana and suggest cycling would be better off w/o their sponsorship and the employment opportunities for riders and staff they bring to the sport are reasoning emotionally, at best, and difficult to take seriously.

Arguing that Astana team needs a management change and fundamental evolution of the organization's culture ... ok, that's reasonable. But just saying the team and sponsor should disappear...please.

 

[King Boonen]

The people suggesting he only get a time penalty need to have a think about what that would mean. Here's a little scenario:

Sky bury every domestique pacing Froome up Ventoux so he can launch a massive attack, after a few seconds the camera pans back and Contador leads the chase, followed by Quintana, Pinot and... A Sky Jag with all the rest of the Sky riders hanging on to it drinking macchiatos and laughing as they could care less about the time penalty they are about to recieve. Racing would become an absolute farce.

Sticky bottles, brake adjustments, drafting etc. get tolerated when they are to short and to bring someone back to a group they dropped from because of a crash, mechanical or getting bottles when the race isn't really on. They shouldn't be tolerated, but they are. Doing it to drop a load of riders is ridiculous, he got what he deserved.