Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[ToreBear]

perhaps it's few hours too early to tell...marit bjørgen certainly did not look at her best. as for northug, i thought he placed as expected in a short time trial and is still very much a contender. finnish girls were impressive as were russian men. emil looked good too.

a slight surprise was randall's lack of speed but she's not a classic lover...

My gut feeling is that the USA had vaxing problems. IIRC Randall is great in double polling. Her weakness is in diagonal.

The Norwegian commentators were nervous about Emils nerves. He was not as relaxed as he is in regular races.

Most of the Norwegian girls said they handled the start of the hill badly. All except Falla. So I'm not too bothered about Marit not placing higher in the prologue.

I think this still looks open for both genders. The course seems to be well suited to the specialist sprinters as well as the others.

 

[ToreBear]

The set up of the heats could prove interesting especially on the mens side. Those who start late in the quarter final get less recovery time.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Okay seems like Norway stone grided their skies after the prologe

 

[python]

The set up of the heats could prove interesting especially on the mens side. Those who start late in the quarter final get less recovery time.

true and in that regard norwegians (overall) were not unlucky...also luck seemed to smile at them when 2 main competitors and man and women took themselves out (poltoranin and justyna)...still i think marit would win anyway b/c she had produced the fastest final heat with or w/o justyna...

 

[Bavarianrider]

Wow what happened to Jönson on the last 200m Totally cracked
At least Northug got beaten. No single gold for Peter at this years Worlds. Today was his best chance, no doubt

 

[python]

Wow what happened to Jönson on the last 200m Totally cracked

i sensed that emil will not win nor podium - that's why i predicted top 5 at best yesterday - and this is almost exactly what happened...the reason being IMO that the course is not for a pure sprinter he is, the 2 nd hill was too much for him imo.

kriukov though was magnificent in his style and a superb glide. i think their waxers made corrections to his grip after the quarter-final.

 

[ToreBear]

Wow! 3 medals on the first day, and one of each type! Yiehaa!!!!

Yes it was sad about Poltaranin and Justyna. Poltaranin I think might have pulled something special had he not broke his pole.

Justyna I think would have had problems against Marit. She did not look as I have seen when she has won previous classic sprints.

As for glide. Harveys skis and ability to use them were impressive! A well deserved medal for Canada!

Most impressive today was Stina Nilsson. Incredible to beat all that competition and make it to the final when shes still a juniour!

I think Emil did'nt have enough energy in the final. He did his best, and should be proud of that.

Kiriukov was unbeatable!

 

[jsem94]

Emil tried to build up a gap in that last hill, he went 100% there to try get a gap. But the gap wasn't large enough, so the others could come from behind and sprint ahead of Jönsson. I didn't like this course TBH, but it was a thrilling event today. Kriukov was brilliant.

Marit was the obvious winner as soon as Justyna had some problems early on. I hope Marit doesn't take all golds, it'd take the thrill out of everything (even though I enjoyed Holmenkollen very much, but that was with a HUGE home crowd).

Emil deserves a gold at some point in his career, Sochi seems a difficult place for him to fulfill that though... we'll see.

 

[ToreBear]

Emil tried to build up a gap in that last hill, he went 100% there to try get a gap. But the gap wasn't large enough, so the others could come from behind and sprint ahead of Jönsson. I didn't like this course TBH, but it was a thrilling event today. Kriukov was brilliant.

Marit was the obvious winner as soon as Justyna had some problems early on. I hope Marit doesn't take all golds, it'd take the thrill out of everything (even though I enjoyed Holmenkollen very much, but that was with a HUGE home crowd).

Emil deserves a gold at some point in his career, Sochi seems a difficult place for him to fulfill that though... we'll see.

Yep, Emil deserves gold. Still, had this course had the same ending but a bit lighter, I don't see anyone beeting Kiriukov. He is in a league of his own in double polling. In classic I think Emil would win if it had an ending with diagonal, In that style he is number one.

One problem with classic sprinting the last few years is that the double polling technique has evolved so much. So if the course is too easy, the men will use skate skiis and double poll the whole way. That kinda ruins the fun IMHO.


Did anyone notice the tricks Emil and Petter played?

Emil in the quarter final false started. He does this on purpose in order to stress the others. I haven't seen him do that since it backfired on him in Drammen last year.

In Drammen he false started, but the starter did'nt restart, and Emil wasn't prepared for the start, so he came out behind. He got tricked by his own trick.

This is the first time I've seen him do this, this year. The funny thing today was that Northug was on to him, and in the final he was very quick to false start, ruining Emils oppurtunity to do it when it counts. You could see Emil smiling when Northug ruined it for him.

It was a great race, with added mind games. Still, would have preffered an individual medal for Emil, he is the overall best sprinter IMO.

As for Marit, having missed Tour de Ski, she is now very hungry for success, so she will be tough to beat. But it's not impossible.

 

[python]

i dont agree that kriukov was unbeatable solely due to his superiority in a double polling technique. in fact, in he said post-race that if he did not use the right tactics, it would be next to impossible to get back to petter and emil since he expected their slight superiority in a jump up the last hill. iow, he is also an intelligent tactician and that helped too. he said his tactic was to use petter's slipstream for as long as possible because there was some fresh snow in tracks and it was advantageous to let the front-runners to collapse it. for example, on the last uphill, right after emil open a gap on petter and him, he heard a norwegian coach yelling to northug that kriukov is 'sitting on you'. at that moment, he said northug deliberately did not go chasing after emil right away and let the gap stay waiting for kriukov's next move. kriukov said he just calmly waited behind petter because he was saving energy this way.

yes it was very tactical.

can't wait to read emil's version in his blog a bit later because has not failed to update his fans so far.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Bjorgen = totally super duper mega awesome lol

Poltaranin would have won the mens sprint if he had not screwed up at the start.
Nordthug will win enough this wc so nice to see him get beaten for once

 

[Bavarianrider]

Bjorgen = totally super duper mega awesome lol

Poltaranin would have won the mens sprint if he had not screwed up at the start.
Nordthug will win enough this wc so nice to see him get beaten for once

Poltoraninen will win the 50km if he can keep this shape.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Poltoraninen will win the 50km if he can keep this shape.

I think Nordthug will be hard to beat on the mass start races

 

[Bavarianrider]

I think Nordthug will be hard to beat on the mass start races

Not if the other nations aren't smart and set a high pace.
The tracks are difficult. If they set a high pace on the last 15km Northug will crack like he did in Sotchi or in the Tour de ski.

 

[jens_attacks]

sad moment indeed with poltoranin but at least my other favourite, nikita won, beast of a man

marit was just untouchable

 

[maltiv]

I think Nordthug will be hard to beat on the mass start races

Northug would be very easy to beat if anyone in skiing had a tactical brain.

They could just attack one by one and look to Northug to bring back said attack. After a couple of attacks he'd be exhausted. Instead when there's attacks someone else pulls the attacker back (mostly Russians, Cologna or Hellner), all so that Northug will be fully rested for the sprint, where they have zero chance of beating him. Happens every race...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yup.

"In order to win you must be prepared to lose sometime. And leave one or two cards showing." - Van Morrison

Too many skiers aren't willing to risk losing, so they pull back all the attacks that they aren't part of, only to inevitably lose to Northug in the sprint. It's like watching a péloton consisting entirely of Pippo Pozzato.

 

[python]

Yup.

"In order to win you must be prepared to lose sometime. And leave one or two cards showing." - Van Morrison

Too many skiers aren't willing to risk losing, so they pull back all the attacks that they aren't part of, only to inevitably lose to Northug in the sprint. It's like watching a péloton consisting entirely of Pippo Pozzato.

What are you talking about

northug LOST TODAY exactly due his own tactic used against him. AS I DESCRIBED IN A POST ABOVE.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

What are you talking about

northug LOST TODAY exactly due his own tactic used against him. AS I DESCRIBED IN A POST ABOVE.

I'm responding to maltiv, talking about the distance races.

And I didn't watch today's races, because a) I was at work, and b) I don't value sprint events as anything other than a once-a-year carnival gimmick race, and don't feel they are real races as such, or merit the prestige and attention given to them.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

What are you talking about

northug LOST TODAY exactly due his own tactic used against him. AS I DESCRIBED IN A POST ABOVE.

He lost today because the russian guy is the best when it comes to classic sprints. Nordthug was in a perfect positin (as he almost allways is) but was not fast enough, nothing really to do with tactics

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Any of you guys taking part in the Worldloppet?

My pops is currently in Wisconsin getting ready for the American Birkie (his fifth, I believe), he's 71, so please take care of him if he should get into some kind of trouble. Please. Your kindness will be returned if I can help it.

 

[zapata]

I'm responding to maltiv, talking about the distance races.

And I didn't watch today's races, because a) I was at work, and b) I don't value sprint events as anything other than a once-a-year carnival gimmick race, and don't feel they are real races as such, or merit the prestige and attention given to them.

I don't really understand what you have against the sprints. Yes, it's not "proper" skiing in the sense that we're used to (Which is to say a 50 km interval start), but hardly any race today is. To win a sprint today, you have to be fast, but also smart, and have a great deal of endurance. I find it more watchable, and certainly less gimmicky, than for instance that weird thing that they call "skiathlon"..

 

[zapata]

And on that note, the whole sport of biathlon has always seemed gimmicky to me. I've watched it closely since the early eighties, and the races have often been exciting, but spmehow I have never taken it quite seriously. Probably because of it's arbitrary nature, as opposed to real skiing.

Spoken by someone who had a poster of Eirik Kvalfoss on his bedroom wall..

 

[ToreBear]

i dont agree that kriukov was unbeatable solely due to his superiority in a double polling technique. in fact, in he said post-race that if he did not use the right tactics, it would be next to impossible to get back to petter and emil since he expected their slight superiority in a jump up the last hill. iow, he is also an intelligent tactician and that helped too. he said his tactic was to use petter's slipstream for as long as possible because there was some fresh snow in tracks and it was advantageous to let the front-runners to collapse it. for example, on the last uphill, right after emil open a gap on petter and him, he heard a norwegian coach yelling to northug that kriukov is 'sitting on you'. at that moment, he said northug deliberately did not go chasing after emil right away and let the gap stay waiting for kriukov's next move. kriukov said he just calmly waited behind petter because he was saving energy this way.

yes it was very tactical.

can't wait to read emil's version in his blog a bit later because has not failed to update his fans so far.

Of course, he is tactically very adept. My thinking is that once you get on that long final stretch. Kiriukov is the man to beat. Both Petter and Emil knew this very well, so they had to plan this race according to him.

On the last hill I was very impressed with Petter being able to stick so close to Emil. Emil took a chance on getting a gap, but Petter was able to keep the gap managable. Too bad for Petter that Kiriukov followed behind him.

As far as I could see Petter did not wait for Kiriukov to chase Emil, he went for it the moment he could? Perhaps he could have waited for Kiriukov, but then he would likely only get a bronze.

 

[ToreBear]

I'm looking forward to the Nordic Combined at 15.00. It's very open.

I could see Austria, Germany, Norway and France taking the Gold. France with Lamy Chapuis is furthest back starting 1:13 behind, but Moan for Norway is 1:07 behind. They could work together and catch a lot of time.

Stecher for Austria starts 0:16 behind and Frenzel for Germany Starts 0:41 behind.

Stecher is ranked 7 in skiing this season
Frenzel 9
Moan 9
Chapui 8

I rank Moan highest, then Chapui, then Frenzel and weakest Stecher.

It would also be cool if Klemetsen at 0:00 could manage a medal. If he can hold onto the pack he has a very good sprint. He has not had a good skiing form this season, but has been working with the XC team to improve. Perhaps it has worked?


For the Start list with ski and jump rankings go to:
http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/604/610.html?sector=NK&raceid=1646
and download the start list Cross contry in the drop down menu.