Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

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So for tomorrow's relay:

Norway: TU.Weng, H.Weng, Johaug, Fossesholm
Sweden: Sundling, Kalla, Andersson, Karlsson

So Norway doesn't put Johaug to anchor any more after the embarrassment of Seefeld, and leaves out Haga, despite the latter being 2nd best Norwegian yesterday. Sweden gambles on each subsequent leg being stronger than the previous one.

If it is decided at the finish, which one of Karlsson or Fossesholm has better finishing ability?
Karlsson has a decent sprint, so I'd probably pick her.
On Friday we should have the kind of weather that the Norge waxing team loves, snowfall around 0 degrees, but it's gonna be cooler on the WE.
 
So for tomorrow's relay:

Norway: TU.Weng, H.Weng, Johaug, Fossesholm
Sweden: Sundling, Kalla, Andersson, Karlsson

So Norway doesn't put Johaug to anchor any more after the embarrassment of Seefeld, and leaves out Haga, despite the latter being 2nd best Norwegian yesterday. Sweden gambles on each subsequent leg being stronger than the previous one.

If it is decided at the finish, which one of Karlsson or Fossesholm has better finishing ability?
Not sure, but I would guess Karlsson. Karlsson will also be stronger on the climbs. I don't really see Norway winning this unless Johaug can put some distance between her and Andersson. In form Kalla would probably try to the same on the 2nd leg. Sweden most likely takes this, but it will be an exciting duel to watch.
 
Jan 7, 2019
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I think 5km is really too short of a leg, almost like a prolonged sprint. Even in biathlon the leg is 6km long, It needs a change to at least 7.5km, maybe even 10km.
The problem is the gaps. In Seefeld WCH 3rd place Russia lost by 2 minutes, let alone the teams behind them. If relays were as closely fought as in biathlon with a good number of countries being competitive, then yes, longer relays could make sense. But with the competition in XC you don't achieve anything with longer distances other than the gaps being measured with a calendar.
 
xc-ski.de WM-Stammtisch mit FIS Marketing-Direktor Jürg Capol und Tobias Angerer / Langlauf - xc-ski.de
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGsU3hjr_SI
. Well if you speak German and want to ruin your night. Watch this video. Angerer and Capol are calling for a drastic reduction of individual starts in favor of "new short mass start formats" that are appealing to non regular XC TV watchers. Capol says that there should be a maximum of 20% traditional formats and that FIS should stop listening to those countries and organisiers who advocate for traditional Formats. He says FIS should not care about their option but " do what is best for XC skiing". I HAVE always hated the guy but now In am legt speechless.
 
LMFAO. So the abortion they've performed on the sport in pursuit of viewers that may or may not exist is because they didn't perform enough of an abortion. Like, "sorry, the scalpel isn't good enough when it comes to carving out the heart of the sport, let me try the chainsaw"...

This sounds like they plan a World Cup consisting entirely of sprints, right? Well, only if it's something separate to and in addition to the traditional events. You know, like the ski cross World Cup as opposed to the alpine skiing World Cup, where the fast, fresh format has niche popularity but isn't a threat to the more established Alpine.

The problem they have is that we've seen this from a few sports lately, running off its existing fanbase in pursuit of a new fanbase that may or may not actually exist. And if that new fanbase hasn't been won over by the absurdly sprint-biased calendars of recent years (as it demonstrably hasn't, with audiences dwindling and more races moving to satellite channels even in heartlands), what makes them think going further down that rabbit hole will suddenly awaken that hypothetical fanbase?
 
Reactions: Mayomaniac
Jan 24, 2021
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So, to preserve the sport (ending german dominance) bobslead should just do 10 seconds sprints?

I am sure many more countries would be competitive if they did and building courses would be a lot cheaper.
You could even race in Dubai!
 
I was not expecting Bolshunov to be out of the podium today but I guess that he paid the price of having raced 3 times in 4 days. Holund looks in superb shape and he will be Norway's strongest bet in the 50km. Surprised by Amundsen, I thought that he could do easily top10 but third is quite a step up. Things look much better for Norway in the men than in the women as they only look seem to have Fossesholm among good young prospects but judging by Holund's career maybe they will find another great athlete in late 20s. Good race by the Swedes again but Johaug did one of her most impressive performances ever in an individual.

I also agree that the 4×5km relay is too short, its almost a team sprint with two more women but gaps are quite nig already so I don't think FIS will change that. This will probably help Sweden win once again but we'll see.
 
Jan 24, 2021
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Johaug did one of her most impressive performances ever in an individual.
That's probably an understatement. According to herself it was her best race ever, some what backed up by the fact that even if you
include both women and men you'd have to go back to the 1960s to find a bigger margin of victory in a 10k. (I assume this is World Championships and not including world cup, but still)

To me, what's even more striking is the following I read in SVT tonight:
Apparently the 10k course was 10457 meters long and the men had a check point at the same precise distance.
Obviously the events were held on different days and the men had a lap to go at that point BUT of the 102 men that finished the 15K, Johaug had a better "10K" time than all but 30 of them.
In other words: 2 of the 4 men from the XC-skiing Juggernaught of Sweden in today's race would have been beaten by Johaug... Well, in theory, sort of.. :)

Link to SVT article here.
 
xc-ski.de WM-Stammtisch mit FIS Marketing-Direktor Jürg Capol und Tobias Angerer / Langlauf - xc-ski.de
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGsU3hjr_SI
. Well if you speak German and want to ruin your night. Watch this video. Angerer and Capol are calling for a drastic reduction of individual starts in favor of "new short mass start formats" that are appealing to non regular XC TV watchers. Capol says that there should be a maximum of 20% traditional formats and that FIS should stop listening to those countries and organisiers who advocate for traditional Formats. He says FIS should not care about their option but " do what is best for XC skiing". I HAVE always hated the guy but now In am legt speechless.
Yikes, but FIS seems to be overall clueless when it comes to growing sports. In alpine skiing you have those (often dangerous) paralell events and a few years ago the race director Markus Waldner proposed to change the downhill. Instead of a proper downhill there should be 2 short runs like in the Slalom or GS.:rolleyes:
Maybe it's just my impression, but the Germans seem to be set on changing XC skiing. I remember the whole campaign against classic skiing and individual starts a few years ago.
The main problem is the fact that you have very few nations at the top and having more mass start races won't change that. We can talk about reducing the maximum number of athletes like they do in Biathlon (they only have one mass start event, the mass start!) and in the long run neutral waxing teams run by the ski companies could be an interesting option to give the smaller nations who don't have a monster budget like Norway a better chance. Let them make a few options and each athlete (or their coaches) are then allowed to pick the ski that they deem to be the best for the specific conditions.
I wouldn't mind seeing more pursuit races the day after an individual start, that could be an option.
 
Yikes, but FIS seems to be overall clueless when it comes to growing sports. In alpine skiing you have those (often dangerous) paralell events and a few years ago the race director Markus Waldner proposed to change the downhill. Instead of a proper downhill there should be 2 short runs like in the Slalom or GS.:rolleyes:
Maybe it's just my impression, but the Germans seem to be set on changing XC skiing. I remember the whole campaign against classic skiing and individual starts a few years ago.
The main problem is the fact that you have very few nations at the top and having more mass start races won't change that. We can talk about reducing the maximum number of athletes like they do in Biathlon (they only have one mass start event, the mass start!) and in the long run neutral waxing teams run by the ski companies could be an interesting option to give the smaller nations who don't have a monster budget like Norway a better chance. Let them make a few options and each athlete (or their coaches) are then allowed to pick the ski that they deem to be the best for the specific conditions.
I wouldn't mind seeing more pursuit races the day after an individual start, that could be an option.
30km individual start followed by a 30km pursuit. That would be a great format. Of course you can`t have that every week, but why not splitup sprint and long distance weekends entirely. Than you would always have two weeks of rest between distances races and you could actually do proper distance racing.
 
Reactions: kingjr
30km individual start followed by a 30km pursuit. That would be a great format. Of course you can`t have that every week, but why not splitup sprint and long distance weekends entirely. Than you would always have two weeks of rest between distances races and you could actually do proper distance racing.
Even 15km individual + 30km pursuit could be interesting, or vice-versa on some weekends. Also you can have mini-Tours once a month too that would include sprints and mass starts (skiathlons) as well. There are so many options, yet they stick to this sprint/15km plan...
 
I didn' t know that Fossesholm was such a good MTBer, she finished 3rd at the 2019 junior WC.
I would already be ok with a 15km individual and 15km pursuit and I hope that Norway is pushing for making the 30/50km Holmenkollen race an individual start once again.
 
Reactions: kingjr
Nah, Finns are conservatives who think individual starts and endurance capacity should decide everything because Lasse Viren was good once.

Mass starts with actually hard tracks and long race formats would be the way to go, but of course this will never pass. The trouble with TT races is that pure speed and anaerobic capacity should be rewarded just as much as stamina. After all, it is easy to build specialists in one of the skills, but the combination of the is something else.

Back to the race: Kalla is having a really bad day.
 

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