Mr. Brooks said:
In generally non Norwegians need to get their **** together. Especially in the women's field. I am really disapointed that no russian girls seem to show up for Sochi in a shape that allows them to challenge Björgen and Johaug.
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In generally non Norwegians need to get their **** together. Especially in the women's field. I am really disapointed that no russian girls seem to show up for Sochi in a shape that allows them to challenge Björgen and Johaug.
J Boe missing 5 of 5 first shots in mens relay :O Norway got 3 penalty loops after the first shooting...
^he did it to take the pressure off the 3 teammates going after him 
germany looks very good at the moment...birnbacher's skiing was fantastic.
germany looks very good at the moment...birnbacher's skiing was fantastic.
I think the other guys did the old exchange of barrels after zeroing trick. New rifling and all the bullets go slightly to the right.
One of the best relays I've seen for a long time despite Norway out of the mix for the win. Must be Austria's first relay victory ever also, anyone knows?
python said:
I have now had time to analyze the interesting issues you raised. Yes I'm slow.
If you are thinking of her maneuver at the time split, I saw nothing wrong. It was a standard lane change to my eyes(though they might of course be biased). If there was something fishy about it, the officials could (probably would since it was on TV) have penalized her. The penalties available are from verbal warning up to yellow card and disqualification. Since it was the tour there could have been some time penalties as well.
I checked the official reprimand list today, and there was no Johaug in there. It could be it has not reached the document yet, but I think your judgment is too strict, and you are likely to be screaming cheater until your voice disappears if you are so strict in your judgment as to what is a legal lane change.
http://www.fis-ski.com/inside-fis/document-library/cross-country/
python said:
Here I just disagree. I don't think there were any team orders on that stage. Jespersen looked to have a little energy in the end, but so did Sundby. He did not drop dead after the stage, so IMHO he had more to give if there was any risk.
As for Jespersen, according to this:
http://worldofxc.com/blog/2014/01/05/analysis-final-climb-2014-men/
He was 4 seconds behind Duerr on the stage, but 56 seconds behind Duerr on the climb.
I did not see any sign of Jespersen slowing down to pace Northug. IMHO, Jespersen made a big effort to catch up to Northug. When that was done he needed a little recovery time so he didn't flame out on the climb. After a little while he ups the tempo a little, while Northug figures he has had enough of the tempo and drops his speed.
I don't see any reason for the team giving orders for Sundby to win and not Chris. Chris had a great day and gave it his all. It could also be he slowed down a little in the end when he realized his 2nd place was safe and he had no chance of catching Sundby.
As for stage 5. Here there might have been team orders not to tow the others up to Martin, but they also wanted to secure their places in the standings.
Northug would not be bothered with protecting his standing, he would just follow along. For Chris it's different, for him the standings were important. So he had to have a balanced approach: Don't pull so hard that you catch up with Martin, but also make sure the group stays ahead of the chase group.
My guess is this is what Chris was doing at the front a few times. Likely he went up when the pace was slowing down and the others were looking at each other too much. But he did not give it everything, which I imagine was an unusual situation for him to be in during a race. It could also be some sabotage involved, but the others really didn't look up to skiing much harder.
If the same situation happens next year, I hope all bets are off and it's every man to himself(within reason of course). Since both the men and women have broken the Tour de Ski "barrier", I don't see any need for team tactics.
Cance > TheRest said:
2009 the last time Austria won a relay. Alarmingly, same quartet.
Very good race. The women's race yesterday was pretty good too, to be fair. After a 2nd and a 1st it seemed that the Preuss-Henkel-Hildebrand-Dahlmeier lineup was going to settle, but with Evi's performance yesterday and Preuss underperforming (admittedly they are working the socks off a 19-year-old this season, phenom or no phenom) there's going to be some pressure on the team.
Also very good to see that the Germans are coming into form at the right time (and being competitive on a difficult skiing trail, which bodes well for Sochi considering they've been a bit off the pace on the skis much of the season, Christoph Stephan's unexpected best ski time at Le Grand Bornand notwithstanding), on the other hand what was up with France? Martin Fourcade wasn't there, I know, but Bœuf, Beatrix, Simon Fourcade and Desthieux are far too good to have been as utterly anonymous as they were today considering they only used 5 spare rounds. The Norwegians had multiple penalty loops to point to as reasons for their disappearance, but France had no such excuse.
In other news, Andrejs Rastorgujevs for an Olympic medal?
personally, i found the women' s relay yesterday more exciting than the men's. a slight surprise was to see shipulin outskied in the anchor leg as i thought on paper he was the fastest on a hard surface.
anyway, despite seldom analyzing biathlons, it was impossible not to notice some obvious ‘standouts’ in the lady's race:
- the ski speed of evi sachenbacher ! a convincing demonstration of what a top notch pure xc skier is capable of vs. 'just' the shooting skiers.
- the russian girls visibly improved speeds. they have been among the fastest on all legs. Iirc, when they podiumed in the recent past, it was more due to their immaculate shooting rather than the ski speed. it seems pichler is having an effect. if so, the russians owe him a major apology for the abuse he took.
-had gössner or henkel skied for germany, it would be a sure gold.
anyway, despite seldom analyzing biathlons, it was impossible not to notice some obvious ‘standouts’ in the lady's race:
- the ski speed of evi sachenbacher ! a convincing demonstration of what a top notch pure xc skier is capable of vs. 'just' the shooting skiers.
- the russian girls visibly improved speeds. they have been among the fastest on all legs. Iirc, when they podiumed in the recent past, it was more due to their immaculate shooting rather than the ski speed. it seems pichler is having an effect. if so, the russians owe him a major apology for the abuse he took.
-had gössner or henkel skied for germany, it would be a sure gold.
Evi's ski speed was excellent, especially considering that her leg featured some pretty quick skiers on it among the biathletes - only Mäkäräinen would be somebody you would consider to be a match for her though. Ruhpolding has fairly tough trails that allow for the skiers to make serious strides and she took every advantage. Sochi will be similar in terms of difficulty but easy run-in which bodes well for her as she traditionally gets stronger in the second half of the season. Although I'm not sure what you mean by 'just' the shooting skiers - do you mean the more shooting-tilted competitors, like, say, Nadezhda Skardino or Marie-Laure Brunet? Or do you mean biathletes in general as opposed to XC skiers? Only if the latter I think you do a disservice to the best skiing biathletes, the ones capable of being at least competitive in XC, at least over the short distances.python said:
The Russian girls are definitely quicker than they were, but this was a vastly superior Russian lineup to the ones we saw earlier in the season too - Vilukhina was ill early in the season so didn't always race, Zaitseva rejoining the side has an immediate effect and Glazyrina missed Oberhof too; last year Glazyrina was of a reasonable speed whereas Yurlova and Shumilova were the really slow ones. Starykh is obviously the breakout this year. It is interesting though considering Pichler said a year ago that his girls couldn't match the likes of Gössner and Domracheva on the skis without taking this thread to the Clinic, however Pichler has been fairly consistent in his antidoping talk (and his methods have met with some resistance from traditionalist coaches in some parts of Russia too). Then again, a lot of the athletes who outskied the Russian girls last year were absent yesterday - no Gössner, no Domracheva, no Henkel, no Pidhrushna, no Dorin-Habert, and the relay iterations meaning that people like Soukalová and Kuzmina were irrelevances, so the Russians were outskiing the likes of Franzi Hildebrand which is less of a shock.
On the final point, maybe in peak form. Yes, Henkel could probably have stayed with Vilukhina and made a bid for victory. Gössner right now would obviously be a total and utter gamble and there's no way of telling what she would or would not have done. But yes, on last year's form she could have won that comfortably even with three reloads. The course layout at Ruhpolding allows us to directly compare all but the first leg times, so we can say that Vilukhina was over 40 seconds slower than Evi Sachenbacher-Stehle on the trails; on the form of last year I think it's not unreasonable to say Miri would have been even quicker than Evi.
Christoph Stephan is back in the relay and justifying it, fastest course time for his leg. It looks like he's enjoying his biathlon again, and there's nothing better for the confidence than that.
Yes, germans were really quick in skiing time today.
1. Germany 1:07:53
2. Austria +25.6
3. Sweden + 48.3
4. Italy +1:04.4 (Big surprise really ski wise)
5. Norway +1:27.4 (Bad skis today???? )
http://realbiathlon.blogspot.dk/
Interesting statistics, in case you didn't already know this site.
1. Germany 1:07:53
2. Austria +25.6
3. Sweden + 48.3
4. Italy +1:04.4 (Big surprise really ski wise)
5. Norway +1:27.4 (Bad skis today????
)http://realbiathlon.blogspot.dk/
Interesting statistics, in case you didn't already know this site.
Cance > TheRest said:Yes, germans were really quick in skiing time today.
1. Germany 1:07:53
2. Austria +25.6
3. Sweden + 48.3
4. Italy +1:04.4 (Big surprise really ski wise)
5. Norway +1:27.4 (Bad skis today????
http://realbiathlon.blogspot.dk/
Interesting statistics, in case you didn't already know this site.
Thanks for the link! As for skis, it could be a case of nothing to ski for. At least Svendsen slowed down when there was nothing to gain.
You would need to check their individual leg times to get a better idea.
i generally stay away from the articles that dig into athletes personal life. so, when I first heard that selina gasparin was spotted in davos training with chernousov i thought to myself hah, she must have switched to reto as a ski coach and will be fast come winter.a bit later, some article reported it was more prosaic - she was dating chernousov….then, after reading this article this morning,. i now feel like making an exception .
http://www.tv2.no/2014/01/08/sport/sotsji/nyheter/sotsji-ol/5208868#.Us_WnvtjHwe
partly because I like selina’s personality. and partly due to her points falling on fertile ground.. she is one of those swiss girls that combine swiss german seriousness and directness with swiss romansch impulsiveness no, i don’t believe she could settle in norway for life despite loving the country and trying hard.
some passages that jumped at me:
-’i think the norwegians are much better in the ski trails than beyond them, though they’re decent enough people‘.
-'i did not find my prince…the norwegian men are not the type of gentlemen we are used to in switzerland and italy. the Russians are the opposite.'
- 'all of Switzerland cheers to my successes without often knowing what the biathlon actually is. sometimes even during interviews i have to explain - it is xc ski racing and shooting.
the post article reader commentary is hilarious. some feel insulted, most play on her statements about norges seemingly lacking gentelmenship.
another commentary from a non-norwegian publication provides piquant details… chernousov, needless to remind the world’s top 10 xc skier, once patiently stood in line with selina’s fans to get her autograph. she was very impressed. the rumour is it was love at the first sight. now the couple's seriously planning their future. some say she’d fit fine in the Russian biathlon relay, other’s doubt cherno - a Siberian - would fit in europe. i think, they are wrong on both accounts.
http://www.tv2.no/2014/01/08/sport/sotsji/nyheter/sotsji-ol/5208868#.Us_WnvtjHwe
partly because I like selina’s personality. and partly due to her points falling on fertile ground
.. she is one of those swiss girls that combine swiss german seriousness and directness with swiss romansch impulsiveness no, i don’t believe she could settle in norway for life despite loving the country and trying hard.some passages that jumped at me:
-’i think the norwegians are much better in the ski trails than beyond them, though they’re decent enough people‘.
-'i did not find my prince…the norwegian men are not the type of gentlemen we are used to in switzerland and italy. the Russians are the opposite.'
- 'all of Switzerland cheers to my successes without often knowing what the biathlon actually is. sometimes even during interviews i have to explain - it is xc ski racing and shooting.
the post article reader commentary is hilarious. some feel insulted, most play on her statements about norges seemingly lacking gentelmenship.
another commentary from a non-norwegian publication provides piquant details… chernousov, needless to remind the world’s top 10 xc skier, once patiently stood in line with selina’s fans to get her autograph. she was very impressed. the rumour is it was love at the first sight. now the couple's seriously planning their future. some say she’d fit fine in the Russian biathlon relay, other’s doubt cherno - a Siberian - would fit in europe. i think, they are wrong on both accounts.
ToreBear said:
In fact the website provides information about the individual ski times per leg. The norwegians are generally top 10/5 each leg, but loses time. Only Svendsens time makes sense, as he had nothing to fight for after the last shooting
python said:i generally stay away from the articles that dig into athletes personal life. so, when I first heard that selina gasparin was spotted in davos training with chernousov i thought to myself hah, she must have switched to reto as a ski coach and will be fast come winter.a bit later, some article reported it was more prosaic - she was dating chernousov….then, after reading this article this morning,. i now feel like making an exception .
http://www.tv2.no/2014/01/08/sport/sotsji/nyheter/sotsji-ol/5208868#.Us_WnvtjHwe
partly because I like selina’s personality. and partly due to her points falling on fertile ground
some passages that jumped at me:
-’i think the norwegians are much better in the ski trails than beyond them, though they’re decent enough people‘.
-'i did not find my prince…the norwegian men are not the type of gentlemen we are used to in switzerland and italy. the Russians are the opposite.'
- 'all of Switzerland cheers to my successes without often knowing what the biathlon actually is. sometimes even during interviews i have to explain - it is xc ski racing and shooting.
the post article reader commentary is hilarious. some feel insulted, most play on her statements about norges seemingly lacking gentelmenship.
another commentary from a non-norwegian publication provides piquant details… chernousov, needless to remind the world’s top 10 xc skier, once patiently stood in line with selina’s fans to get her autograph. she was very impressed. the rumour is it was love at the first sight. now the couple's seriously planning their future. some say she’d fit fine in the Russian biathlon relay, other’s doubt cherno - a Siberian - would fit in europe. i think, they are wrong on both accounts.
I thought the part about mentality differences between Norway and Switzerland was interesting. Positive reinforcements tends to create joy, experiencing joy increases the chance you will do more of what you are doing.
Cance > TheRest said:
We saw with the women today that the ski times are totally off, so there might have been problems the other days too. Hopefully the waxers will figure it out. So it seems you were right.
ToreBear said:I thought the part about mentality differences between Norway and Switzerland was interesting. Positive reinforcements tends to create joy, experiencing joy increases the chance you will do more of what you are doing.
We saw with the women today that the ski times are totally off, so there might have been problems the other days too. Hopefully the waxers will figure it out. So it seems you were right.
Yes. Berger's time was totally off today... Hope she gets her skiing speed back on track. Good race though. It's always a joy to watch when ones favourite biathlete wins. However, what I don't understand, is that the next race after the indivuals is a pursuit? Does this mean, they are going to be starting like if this individual was a sprint or do they compress the time gaps somehow to make it a more fair competition?
http://www4.biathlonworld.com/en/events.html?EventId=BT1314SWRLCP05
Cance > TheRest said:
Edit: Now got the answer to my question, as it seems like they've just cut off half the time gaps today. Domracheva will start out 17sec after Soukalová, Vitkova +19 etc.
Gonna make up for a great race on sunday. Also mens individual tomorrow looks interesting with no MFourcade in the mix. Should favour Svendsen, if he keeps shooting as good as he did in Oberhof and the relay yesterday.
Interesting to see Simon Fourcade has suddenly remembered how to ski and shoot, he hasn't looked anything even remotely like producing this kind of form all season. Russians starting to build the speed up with Malyshko and Ustyugov, but Shipulin still a way off where he'd want to be. Poor ski time for Simon Schempp, though he did have a fall, but surprisingly good one for Daniel Böhm, sadly unable to capitalise with his usual top shooting.
18th fastest ski time just ahead of Petrovic (!) though. Seems Ruhpolding has become one of the easiest courses. Top 20 ski times within 80 seconds over 20km
Yes, very bizarre. It's traditionally been very difficult, but with an easy range in recent years since the reprofiling due to the long downhill lead-in that gives max recovery time. The easy range has also meant that time gaps are smaller than we might normally expect in an Individual.
Petrovic has actually been pretty good this season, some good results, though he missed a bunch of races to do the Universiade in Val di Fiemme, where he won a bunch of medals both in biathlon and XC.
Petrovic has actually been pretty good this season, some good results, though he missed a bunch of races to do the Universiade in Val di Fiemme, where he won a bunch of medals both in biathlon and XC.
roundabout said:
I think what we are really seing is not the product of an easy course, but rather the fact that this is an individual, where missed shots are punished harder, which eventually makes most biathletes ski slower and tactical to avoid the 1min penalty.
Also the womens race yesterday proved that there can be time gaps in skiing, which suggests that the mens WC is just more tight ski-wise this year.
http://realbiathlon.blogspot.dk/2013/12/fastest-skiers-men-201314-season.html
I guess conditions must have been pretty fast. 44:30 for 20km. That's pretty damn fast i'd say. The faster the track, the smaller the gaps.
many winters ago when studying english i thoght that words 'superiority' and 'domination' were synonymous. only much later i learned the qualitative difference...
after the today's sprints i will never confuse the 2.
the 21 yo wunderkind who swept all distance world junior titles for a couple years now, was literally dominating in sprints today. dominated over his own monster teammates including kriukov and the rest.
jeez, a rare almost 4 seconds win in the qualifiers, then dominating q-finals, semifinals and, finally, the finals.
last year i dedicated several post to this jem. has he flowered too soon to only disappear later as happened to so many of his talented compatriots ?
this time there is evidence the russians are holding ustiugov back against his own wishes. for instances, he wished to parttake in the russian olympic qualifiers for all distance races including the 50k. he was told to train with the sprinters instead.
is he next northug ?
after the today's sprints i will never confuse the 2.
the 21 yo wunderkind who swept all distance world junior titles for a couple years now, was literally dominating in sprints today. dominated over his own monster teammates including kriukov and the rest.
jeez, a rare almost 4 seconds win in the qualifiers, then dominating q-finals, semifinals and, finally, the finals.
last year i dedicated several post to this jem. has he flowered too soon to only disappear later as happened to so many of his talented compatriots ?
this time there is evidence the russians are holding ustiugov back against his own wishes. for instances, he wished to parttake in the russian olympic qualifiers for all distance races including the 50k. he was told to train with the sprinters instead.
is he next northug ?
python said:
Please don't insult the kid. He has all the tools to become a real cross country king, not just a short distance-mass start sprinter.
python said:
Could be, but I don't think he has Northugs charming personality.
It's scary to think of Norway loosing the relay, but when Northug one day retires, our hegemony could be broken.
Then again we have Krogh stepping up, so it should still remain interesting.
I think the Russians are handling Ustiugov the right way. Question is when Vyleg will be replaced by him. Perhaps next year?
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