Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[dobrien]

Kinda surprised that we didn't get more ski classics girls to show up. The top athletes would have a chance against such a watered down field even in skating.

Well, we totally agree this was a watered down field but wow, that was a really exciting finale. They were totally hammering on each other. Diggins skied a very smart last 5k; probably paying for all those points she collected but that made the finale more exciting too, 3rd on podium is just the right place for her today. I was concerned about this devolving into a procession at the end but that was fun ski racing to watch regardless of who was not here. Deserved win for Haga; love it!!

 

[KZD]

Glad that Diggins didn't won given that she probably had the best skis.

Haga has been nowhere her best during the last seasons but she shows that she has something to give. Sanness and Bergane doing great races and so did Tiril Weng although she is clearly better at sea level than at altitude. The French were a bit disappointing.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Glad that Diggins didn't won given that she probably had the best skis.

Haga has been nowhere her best during the last seasons but she shows that she has something to give. Sanness and Bergane doing great races and so did Tiril Weng although she is clearly better at sea level than at altitude. The French were a bit disappointing.

Countdown to Eurosport blaming the skis in 3... 2...

Either way, think when it came to the finale, the repeated sprints for the bonus trophy came back to bite Jess, you'd usually expect her to win a three-up shootout between those three, she's far more accomplished as a sprinter, but sprinting at the end of 50k is of course very different to sprinting in the shorter and mid-distance races where she holds the cards and having had those repeated short bursts to the bonus sprints likely told in the long run.

 

[Norbea]

Kinda surprised that we didn't get more ski classics girls to show up. The top athletes would have a chance against such a watered down field even in skating.

Agree, but the Holmenkollen 50k is still a really hard race. Even the ski classic racers would respect the profile of the track. It isn´t like anything they are used to in ski classic.

 

[DonAragona]

Diggins 2nd pair of skis were not great but her race structure cost her. Wasted far too much energy on bonus points and not enough on winning the race...the irony is she's lost more points not winning than winning and being calmer over the bonus points.

Better race than the men.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Agree, but the Holmenkollen 50k is still a really hard race. Even the ski classic racers would respect the profile of the track. It isn´t like anything they are used to in ski classic.

It is really hard, but something like Reistaloppet is also super hard. Really long, steep climbs in the cold north. That one is often won by world cup athletes (Nyengent and Andersson in recent years) because you actually have do diagonal stride on the climbs.

Prato Piazza challenge is a short race, but a climb that is 6.5km at over 8% at the end of the race is brutal. This year they put 16min into Northug and last year even Sundby lost 1min to the best.

Still, a different kind of effort compared to the Holmenkollen, you have a point.

Speaking of xc skiing, yesterday I competed in a ski mountaineering race that was won by Christian Hoffmann...

 

[Mayomaniac]

Diggins 2nd pair of skis were not great but her race structure cost her. Wasted far too much energy on bonus points and not enough on winning the race...the irony is she's lost more points not winning than winning and being calmer over the bonus points.

Better race than the men.

Well, pretty much every single womens distance race has been better this season, if I have to be honest.
Yeah, Diggins and the American coaches aren't the best when it comes to racing tactics...

 

[dobrien]

Diggins 2nd pair of skis were not great but her race structure cost her. Wasted far too much energy on bonus points and not enough on winning the race...the irony is she's lost more points not winning than winning and being calmer over the bonus points.

Better race than the men.

Good point on the err.. points! She may have been wasting energy on points but outside of that got to spend a lot of time hanging back while Bergane drove; not a 100% even tradeoff but at least she wasn't on the front all day.

When I heard Andersson, Karlsson, Oestberg weren't racing I was pretty unhappy as I've been looking forward to this all year. Was mostly worried about it devolving into some desultory procession with 30 seconds between skiers. But... for me, those last 10k were amazing, just some really great ski racing regardless of who was here or not. A very good look compared to the disaster it might have been. Obviously, a very different race if Andersson is here, but we'll never know that.

Career day for Haga; after all she's been through I'm just delighted for her.
Big success and story for Slind; crazy run of form, but also of just huge mental toughness.
I'd call this a positive result for Diggins; so many had her as a slam dunk but 50k is a beast
and a podium is solid day.
Good day for Stadlober after a rough season.
Good race for Tiril, especially hanging tough after being dropped.
Very nice outing from Eiduka.
Brennan below where I thought she'd be.
Definitely thought the French would be better.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Wierer's skiing speed in the last few races has been impressive, she's in peak shape since after the wc.

 

[Norbea]

It is really hard, but something like Reistaloppet is also super hard. Really long, steep climbs in the cold north. That one is often won by world cup athletes (Nyengent and Andersson in recent years) because you actually have do diagonal stride on the climbs.

Prato Piazza challenge is a short race, but a climb that is 6.5km at over 8% at the end of the race is brutal. This year they put 16min into Northug and last year even Sundby lost 1min to the best.

Still, a different kind of effort compared to the Holmenkollen, you have a point.

Speaking of xc skiing, yesterday I competed in a ski mountaineering race that was won by Christian Hoffmann...

I can personally confirm that Reistaløpet is bloody hard. It is also not the typical classic race. Reistaløpet has a couple of really looooooong climbs up the mountains. The hardest climb is so long that even the top athletes just settle down to gear one. I don't know too much about Holmenkollen, but everyone says it is all those "shorter" intensive climbs that slowly drains you.

 

[Norbea]

Heidi Weng not looking good at all. Wonder if she’ll call it quits at the end of this season. She’s clearly not into it mentally.

She has been struggling with a head injury after an accident last summer. She hasn't said to much on how it is affecting her, but there has been periods where she hasn't been able to train or compete. And I understand she still have headaches. Hopefully she can fully recover. She is still expressing great joy over being able to compete at all. If she can overcome her issues I think she will keep on going.

 

[dobrien]

She has been struggling with a head injury after an accident last summer. She hasn't said to much on how it is affecting her, but there has been periods where she hasn't been able to train or compete. And I understand she still have headaches. Hopefully she can fully recover. She is still expressing great joy over being able to compete at all. If she can overcome her issues I think she will keep on going.

I really hope she does; I kind of enjoy her quirkiness and it's been sad to see someone so talented struggling as she has. She's also going to turn 32 this year though; doesn't get any easier as one gets older. Perhaps she can take heart from seeing some of her peers and teammates reaping huge success after long periods in the wilderness. Good luck to her.

 

[Mayomaniac]

So Graz won both the 10km classic individual start and the 10km skating pursuit in Italy. Nöckler is totally off after Planica, only 15th and over 1min behind Graz in a 10km classic race (a domestic FIS race), Mocellini did better than him.

 

[BigCoward]

Surprised Largreid is risking it, would have thought the extra week rest would have been a good idea.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

A good week for Eric Perrot, who took his first individual WC podium to top it off. He's not yet established himself in the top 25, but he's also a year younger than guys like Hartweg and Giacomel, so he'll be interesting to follow over the next seasons.

 

[BullsFan22]

Glad Diggins didn’t win. She has little to no racing acumen, just races without strategy, it fits with her all over the place personality. I very much doubt that the American coaches give their skiers much pre race tactics. I know for a fact they never did in the past.

 

[dobrien]

Glad Diggins didn’t win. She has little to no racing acumen, just races without strategy, it fits with her all over the place personality. I very much doubt that the American coaches give their skiers much pre race tactics. I know for a fact they never did in the past.

And yet there she is, Olympic gold, silver (individual), bronze (individual), World Championships 2 gold (1 individual), 2 silver (both individual), 2 bronze. Many skiers would love to race with such 'acumen'.

 

[Mayomaniac]

And yet there she is, Olympic gold, silver (individual), bronze (individual), World Championships 2 gold (1 individual), 2 silver (both individual), 2 bronze. Many skiers would love to race with such 'acumen'.

I think he was mainly pointing out the fact that she isn't the most tactical racer out there. Bury yourself on the climbs and try to gain time on the descents seems to be all she does and the American coaches usually don't do more that scream "keep pushing, keep going!".

Nobody denies her ability in skating individual starts.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I can personally confirm that Reistaløpet is bloody hard. It is also not the typical classic race. Reistaløpet has a couple of really looooooong climbs up the mountains. The hardest climb is so long that even the top athletes just settle down to gear one. I don't know too much about Holmenkollen, but everyone says it is all those "shorter" intensive climbs that slowly drains you.

Yeah, from what I've seen it looks almost more like a Ski Mountaineering race.

 

[dobrien]

I think he was mainly pointing out the fact that she isn't the most tactical racer out there. Bury yourself on the climbs and try to gain time on the descents seems to be all she does and the American coaches usually don't do more that scream "keep pushing, keep going!".

Which in the general case I'd agree with, but with certain posters the level of anti-Jessie vitriol is so over the top it makes it more difficult to see their posts as rational, rather than just more hating. Some might not see her as the most tactical racer, but others could also point to her as someone who absolutely knows her strengths, and skis to those strengths very effectively. You don't win all the medals she has without having at least SOME idea of what you're doing out there.

For the record, she's not my favorite skier and her personality is not my cup of tea either, it's just that in my opinion criticisms of her would carry a lot more weight if not issued by people clearly blinded by what seems like irrational hatred. Someone doesn't like her, that's fine, but a little perspective and few deep, calming breaths, would go a long way I think. ;-)

 

[Discgear]

For the record, she's not my favorite skier and her personality is not my cup of tea either, it's just that in my opinion criticisms of her would carry a lot more weight if not issued by people clearly blinded by what seems like irrational hatred. Someone doesn't like her, that's fine, but a little perspective and few deep, calming breaths, would go a long way I think. ;-)

Very much agree. If the birds in the forest only sang in line with my expectations it wouldn't be:
Firstly: a forest
Secondly: birds

 

[DonAragona]

Tactics in women's cross country is completely underdeveloped.

There are only really Svahn and Ostberg that have any race acumen although Haga skied really intelligently yesterday, nice and slow on the climbs and let the skis on close on the downhills...it's amazing how many don't get it. Karlsson, Andersson etc all ski like headless chickens.

Diggins strength has always been saving energy, downhill finish...sprint to the line but she persists in playing up to the character 'hero' role. Coaches screaming 'Lets go Diggs'. She's by far the strongest in a sprint at the end of the distance race all she had to do yesterday was keep cool and calm then she would have won the historic 50k.

ps Anybody else notice the Americans are all really pushing the equality, it feels like the latest criteria to remain on the national team.

 

[DonAragona]

And yet there she is, Olympic gold, silver (individual), bronze (individual), World Championships 2 gold (1 individual), 2 silver (both individual), 2 bronze. Many skiers would love to race with such 'acumen'.

She would have won a lot more had she skied smarter but then again that can be said for a lot of the girls.

 

[BullsFan22]

And yet there she is, Olympic gold, silver (individual), bronze (individual), World Championships 2 gold (1 individual), 2 silver (both individual), 2 bronze. Many skiers would love to race with such 'acumen'.

What acumen did she race with to win those medals?

 

[OJRvE]

Tactics in women's cross country is completely underdeveloped.

There are only really Svahn and Ostberg that have any race acumen although Haga skied really intelligently yesterday, nice and slow on the climbs and let the skis on close on the downhills...it's amazing how many don't get it. Karlsson, Andersson etc all ski like headless chickens.

I think it’s because competition is less intense so you can get away with tactical mistake and still win (especially as a junior, I think it’s often the case young woman have bad tactics and then improves over the years, Östberg is a good example of that). I don’t think Andersson is to bad tactically, sure she is not so technical and does mistake and before she was a little to eager. But the pushing the pace in the uphills is definitely her strength and it’s paying off. The only thing I think of is maybe in Ruka puirsuit she was outplayed by Karlsson because she did her work on the flatter parts and Karlsson pulled uphill (which see probably would have done anyways since cannot ski in Anderssona rhythm).

Speaking of Svahn she has a younger sister, Alva who is even more tactical. She lack the raw power and is often 10-15 seconds behind in Sprint Qualifying but often wins the heat comfortably by just skiing tactical and exerts the effort only when needed. If she is able to progress physically she could be interesting to follow. Born 2005 so still very young.