Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[titan31]

That heat 5 of the women's there was the funniest race I've ever seen in my life.

Like Bambi on ice

 

[Mayomaniac]

Skistad apologizing and telling Sundling that the contact wasn't intended right away is classy.
Sundling played it a lot better this time when it came to her cornering and not giving up the faster lane.

 

[KZD]

Chanavat should improve his tactics. Starting always in front will only get him to the podium on a good day like today but its not enough to beat Klæbo.

 

[dobrien]

Ogden is the most talented of the young Americans(both male and female), he's fun to watch but his tactics are entirely suicidal but no doubt in the 'let's have fun' spirit that is a prerequisite for being on the national team.

Up until this year I would have agreed with that but I'd keep an eye on Samantha Smith... Still only 17, doesn't turn 18 until September. Made the quarterfinals today ahead of Hailey Swirbul, top 10 in world juniors and a multitalented athlete who was also invited last year by the US Women's National soccer team to their U17 development camp, ran 4:50 in the mile to win the Idaho state track meet. Currently on the US development team but wouldn't be surprised if she's named to the B team next year. Very mentally strong kid who seems like a potential star. Time will tell of course but she is very promising.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Sophia Laukli mafia representing here.

 

[dobrien]

Sophia Laukli mafia representing here.

Don't get me wrong, I like Sophia a lot and am a fan, I just think Samantha is a much more multidimensional skier. Sophia would be hard pressed to ever make a sprint quarterfinal, but Samantha has already done it at 17 AND has shown excellent distance potential as well.

Frankly I'd love to see a lot more variety of racing on the WC with more climbing oriented stuff, and if we were to get that Sophia would be a killer (obviously), but the WC as currently structured imho just plays way more to the strengths of skiers like Samantha and Novi McCabe.

I'm just glad to see the US has some promising women coming up to replace the huge hole that will be left when Rosie and she-who-will-not-be-named eventually retire (and I have my suspicions that Swirbul isn't going to have a lot of longevity in the sport either..)

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Frankly I'd love to see a lot more variety of racing on the WC with more climbing oriented stuff, and if we were to get that Sophia would be a killer (obviously), but the WC as currently structured imho just plays way more to the strengths of skiers like Samantha and Novi McCabe.

Isn't McCabe much more a distance skier like Laukli than a more allround type like Smith?

McCabe have races 7 World Cup sprints and never made it to the top 40 even. Back in the World Juniors days she got knocked out in the quarter final and in U23 WC this winter the same. I know she's been doing okay in some sprints in North America, but against very weak competitions. She might become a better sprinter, but so far it seems like her natural pathway is focusing on distance racing.

Laukli needs to put on more muscles. And like basically every single American she need to work on her technique, especially in classic.

 

[dobrien]

Isn't McCabe much more a distance skier like Laukli than a more allround type like Smith?

McCabe have races 7 World Cup sprints and never made it to the top 40 even. Back in the World Juniors days she got knocked out in the quarter final and in U23 WC this winter the same. I know she's been doing okay in some sprints in North America, but against very weak competitions. She might become a better sprinter, but so far it seems like her natural pathway is focusing on distance racing.

Laukli needs to put on more muscles. And like basically every single American she need to work on her technique, especially in classic.

I definitely did not mean to suggest I think she will become the next Jonna Sundling but I do think she has the potential to morph into a much better sprinter over time; sprinting is about tactics and experience as well and that's one thing she's definitely short of at the WC level.

I think one thing about Sophia is that she's also really into trail/mountain running and is quite good at it. May be that she's simply not interested in putting on more muscle or maybe with that body type might not be capable of it.

The other thing about Samantha Smith is she is still not 100% focused on skiing yet at this point and continues to spread herself (too) thin. Unlike a lot of her Scandinavian peers who have been focused fully on skiing for a long time, when and if (hopefully) she does so it seems like there is a lot of potentially untapped upside.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Don't get me wrong, I like Sophia a lot and am a fan, I just think Samantha is a much more multidimensional skier. Sophia would be hard pressed to ever make a sprint quarterfinal, but Samantha has already done it at 17 AND has shown excellent distance potential as well.

Frankly I'd love to see a lot more variety of racing on the WC with more climbing oriented stuff, and if we were to get that Sophia would be a killer (obviously), but the WC as currently structured imho just plays way more to the strengths of skiers like Samantha and Novi McCabe.

I'm just glad to see the US has some promising women coming up to replace the huge hole that will be left when Rosie and she-who-will-not-be-named eventually retire (and I have my suspicions that Swirbul isn't going to have a lot of longevity in the sport either..)

That's kind of why she's my American skier of choice lol, Liz Stephen was always my favourite American skier of the last generation and Sophia kind of fills that void in the team.

I would say that Heidi Weng spent much of her youth as very much a distance - and climbing-oriented - skier who spent much of her offseason trail- and fell-running and was pretty irrelevant to sprints early in her career, quarter-finals the best she could hope to manage for a while, but she eventually got pretty decent at them, so perhaps that's a skillset forebear she could point to.

Edit: kind of mixed the conversations on McCabe and Laukli up when referencing that second paragraph. Obviously it would seem McCabe has a bit more transferability to sprinting than Laukli but neither are likely to ever become a threat in them. Which for me is a good thing, but isn't really suitable for FIS' stupid calendar that tries to balance sprints 50-50 against the nebulous concept of "distance" where anything over a kilometre is considered "distance".

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I would say that Heidi Weng spent much of her youth as very much a distance - and climbing-oriented - skier who spent much of her offseason trail- and fell-running and was pretty irrelevant to sprints early in her career, quarter-finals the best she could hope to manage for a while, but she eventually got pretty decent at them, so perhaps that's a skillset forebear she could point to.

Young Weng was pretty quick early on. In her first year in the elites she made the final in Davos and the second year she was on the podium in Val Mustair. Then she was relevant in the sprints for some seasons before she got older and slower and started struggling.

—————

When it comes to Laukli I don’t think “becoming better in sprints” is a motivation to put on some muscles. She needs more muscles to become better at the distance races. Skiers like Weng and Johaug are quite comparable. They were all very skinny at young age, but Weng and Johaug were really strong and were able to produce high speed also in easier terrain, where Laukli is really struggling.

Both Weng and Johaug were brilliant runners despite putting on some muscles, so it shouldn’t be a factor. Also Laukli is an Olympic skier, she will never reach this level in running so it doesn’t make sense to not do what’s best for your main sport because it might hurt you in a secondary sport.

 

[BullsFan22]

The fact that Samantha Smith made the top 30 tells you all you need to know about the women’s field.

 

[BullsFan22]

Young Weng was pretty quick early on. In her first year in the elites she made the final in Davos and the second year she was on the podium in Val Mustair. Then she was relevant in the sprints for some seasons before she got older and slower and started struggling.

—————

When it comes to Laukli I don’t think “becoming better in sprints” is a motivation to put on some muscles. She needs more muscles to become better at the distance races. Skiers like Weng and Johaug are quite comparable. They were all very skinny at young age, but Weng and Johaug were really strong and were able to produce high speed also in easier terrain, where Laukli is really struggling.

Both Weng and Johaug were brilliant runners despite putting on some muscles, so it shouldn’t be a factor. Also Laukli is an Olympic skier, she will never reach this level in running so it doesn’t make sense to not do what’s best for your main sport because it might hurt you in a secondary sport.

McCabe and Laukli will never become sprinters. Physique and technique will not allow that. High tempo doesn’t mean a good sprinter.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Young Weng was pretty quick early on. In her first year in the elites she made the final in Davos and the second year she was on the podium in Val Mustair. Then she was relevant in the sprints for some seasons before she got older and slower and started struggling.

—————

When it comes to Laukli I don’t think “becoming better in sprints” is a motivation to put on some muscles. She needs more muscles to become better at the distance races. Skiers like Weng and Johaug are quite comparable. They were all very skinny at young age, but Weng and Johaug were really strong and were able to produce high speed also in easier terrain, where Laukli is really struggling.

Both Weng and Johaug were brilliant runners despite putting on some muscles, so it shouldn’t be a factor. Also Laukli is an Olympic skier, she will never reach this level in running so it doesn’t make sense to not do what’s best for your main sport because it might hurt you in a secondary sport.

Oh, I was never suggesting that she should take her interest in fell-running at any priority, I was just meaning that Weng was somebody who had similar interests and skillset who makes a good figure to take inspiration from. I mean, the more obvious and immediate comparison on the skis alone is Delphine Claudel.

As for Weng and Johaug producing high speed also in the easier terrain where Laukli struggles, this could be a legacy of the difference in the technical side; often the US skiers are starting with a deficit in terms of taking up the sport later, but nevertheless you'd think that a good technical coach that could iron out some of the flaws in their techniques would be really beneficial in at least reducing the losses that are made in that area. I mean, thankfully there aren't any Susan Dunklees on the current team, making Tora Berger look like Lars Berger, but the deficit in technique - especially in Classic which has hampered many a relay - has been a major obstacle for the Americans for some time now.

 

[dobrien]

The fact that Samantha Smith made the top 30 tells you all you need to know about the women’s field.

I think we would agree that the women's fields have been of very low quality in general this year. Love them or hate them the sport is really missing the Russians, as well as suffering from the disparities which occur when only 1 or 2 nations really give a sh*t about it. Going down the start list of 55 women yesterday arguably the last 20 or so were bona fide pack filler.

That said, Samantha beat Lotta Weng, was just 4 seconds behind Tiril in 16th, and very close to established WC skiers like Fink, Brennan, Eiduka, Hagstroem. In Falun she qualified 19th ahead of Tiril Weng, the world cup leader, as well as a number of other established world cup veterans. She skis with a lot of poise and promise for someone so young and so new to full-time skiing, and it's not like she's qualifying 20 seconds back.

 

[dobrien]

Oh, I was never suggesting that she should take her interest in fell-running at any priority, I was just meaning that Weng was somebody who had similar interests and skillset who makes a good figure to take inspiration from. I mean, the more obvious and immediate comparison on the skis alone is Delphine Claudel.

As for Weng and Johaug producing high speed also in the easier terrain where Laukli struggles, this could be a legacy of the difference in the technical side; often the US skiers are starting with a deficit in terms of taking up the sport later, but nevertheless you'd think that a good technical coach that could iron out some of the flaws in their techniques would be really beneficial in at least reducing the losses that are made in that area. I mean, thankfully there aren't any Susan Dunklees on the current team, making Tora Berger look like Lars Berger, but the deficit in technique - especially in Classic which has hampered many a relay - has been a major obstacle for the Americans for some time now.

I think the comparison of Sophia with Claudel seems apt at this point.

I think one thing that hurts American skiers, even those who take up the sport earlier in life (if they have parents who are racers for example) is the lack of coaches at lower levels of the sport who really 'get' good ski technique. A talent like Jessie Diggins growing up in Norway would almost certainly have received vastly better technique coaching than she did growing up in Minnesota where she was dominant simply due to being so much stronger than the other kids.

Not saying it's impossible to iron out technique flaws once a skier is older but, much like learning a musical instrument, the process of myelination with respect to creating muscle memory is vastly more efficient in younger kids than adults, and the problem is that process is equally efficient whether the muscle memory being created is for perfect, or appalling, technique.

Actually, the people who dislike Jessie should be grateful her technique is so bad; can you imagine how much better she'd be if she skied like Krista for example? Just sayin'.

 

[BigCoward]

A team sprint, a sprint and 20k classic mass start is a rather underwhelming way to end the season.
I'm guessing Klaebo finishes the season with 3 more wins.
It's a bit *** on the women in the NC that they don't finish the season together With the men. Hardly the best way to grow the sport.

 

[Mayomaniac]

A team sprint, a sprint and 20k classic mass start is a rather underwhelming way to end the season.
I'm guessing Klaebo finishes the season with 3 more wins.
It's a bit *** on the women in the NC that they don't finish the season together With the men. Hardly the best way to grow the sport.

I mean, you also have a Fis president who bashes NC because his ski companymainly produces alpine skis. He didn't step back as the chairman of the board of Head after becoming the Fis president and the company got a few nice deals supplying fis officials with gear...

Not to mention that the guy wants to turn Alpine Skiing in F1 and have summer races in Ski halls in Arabia and other countries.
Already having a 2nd block of US races after the wc was a big fail, Fis is pretty much the anti-Midas, ruining every sport they touch and want to "improve"

 

[Libertine Seguros]

A team sprint, a sprint and 20k classic mass start is a rather underwhelming way to end the season.
I'm guessing Klaebo finishes the season with 3 more wins.
It's a bit *** on the women in the NC that they don't finish the season together With the men. Hardly the best way to grow the sport.

Yea, but apparently short and explosive is the way they think the sport will grow. Again, it's old men sport executives in suits telling everybody what young people like, and old men advertising executives in suits nodding sagely in agreement.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Yea, but apparently short and explosive is the way they think the sport will grow. Again, it's old men sport executives in suits telling everybody what young people like, and old men advertising executives in suits nodding sagely in agreement.

I hope the ski classics series becomes as big as the world cup, just to see their faces

 

[BigCoward]

Who on earth is Niilo Moilanen? And why do they have so many vowels in their name?

 

[OJRvE]

Slightly worrried Karlsson will damage her reputation further by doing something stupid against Fähndrich to help her buddy Dahlqvist winning the sprint trophy.

 

[search]

Swiss TV isn't happy at all about the Swedish team orders today

 

[OJRvE]

Swiss TV isn't happy at all about the Swedish team orders today

I am reading on a swedish forum and generally people are cheering on Fahndrich right now.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Who on earth is Niilo Moilanen? And why do they have so many vowels in their name?

He's very good in sprint qualifications especially in Classic (well, duh, he's Finnish) - 14th in Ruka, 2nd in Beitostølen, 4th in Davos, 12th in Les Rousses, 10th in Toblach, 9th in Planica, 18th in Drammen - but has yet to convert it into a meaningful result in the H2H sprints, with a best of 8th. He's only 21 though, give him time.

Edit: unfortunately for him, that was a Keystone Kops level recovery after the fall, going down three times. Mocellini outsprints Ogden for the second spot in the heat and Winterton confidently announces that Ogden was obstructed by the crash of the Finns (obviously making up for the loss of mythical Mattias Strandvall) and ignoring that Mocellini clearly sprinted past him on the finishing straight, it wasn't that Ogden was behind and catching (though to be fair, with Ben Ogden's book of tactics largely reading "full attack mode from the gun at all times", the idea of him starting slowly and then catching up is a bit of a nonsense anyway).

 

[BigCoward]

I can't be bothered working out the maths but I assume no matter what happens now Diggins can't catch Weng anymore?

Nvm, commentators just confirmed it in very downbeat voices.
Has anyone ever been world cup winner with only one victory to their name? A lesson in consistency.