Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[dobrien]

Fiasco is a big word, but for her personally it's probably a failure.

Unquestionably she will be disappointed, which is 100% understandable.

 

[DonAragona]

What a performance from Frida! Her excellent technique really paid off in these difficult conditions.

Ebbas maneuver was really stupid, he would never forgive her if something had happened to Frida.

She's fighting for the Gold, she had to try something and certainly showed a little more speed than the others at the point of the crash.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I am inclined to believe that this is what he has been told by the coach and staff.

I am not inclined to believe that this is the truth.

Agree.

 

[DonAragona]

Fiasco is a big word, but for her personally it's probably a failure.

It's a sporting disaster for Johaug.

She came out of retirement purely for the 50km, she's leaves a World Championships without a Gold medal...this is Therese Johaug we are talking about. The greatest ever distance ski racer ever leaves without Gold is a sporting disaster.

 

[OJRvE]

She's fighting for the Gold, she had to try something and certainly showed a little more speed than the others at the point of the crash.

There is absolutely no space where she tried to overtake and not the first time she has tried questionable moves. For sure I understand she wanted to win for herself as she should and nothing wrong with that. Just wish she could be better evaluating situations like this going forward.

 

[Discgear]

I saw the race in a gold lounge at Oslo Airport today. Kind of depressing to see that nobody seemed to pay any interest to the big screening TV during the race, until the last minute when finally a big number of mostly men rose. However, all of them disolved to their chairs, toalett, bar... when it was obvious that Frida was the winner.

 

[kingjr]

This race is a joke, sums up the Championships.

The women's 50 k? That was a great race imo

 

[kingjr]

Karlsson struggled a bit earlier in the race but she has a bit of a history in these longer races of getting stronger as the race goes on and she looks in a good position here.

Of course, she's still Frida "Johnny Knoxville" Karlsson so she'll probably crash out like Nyenget yesterday on the last lap and take Andersson out with her.

Almost...

 

[DonAragona]

Karlsson struggled a bit earlier in the race but she has a bit of a history in these longer races of getting stronger as the race goes on and she looks in a good position here.

Of course, she's still Frida "Johnny Knoxville" Karlsson so she'll probably crash out like Nyenget yesterday on the last lap and take Andersson out with her.

She looked in real trouble on the second lap(she confirmed as much after the race) but had an incredible pair of skis to get her back into the race at which point the controlled the race until the end.

The one thing that Frida did really well today, was the way she skied the downhills certainly compared to the other 3 who were like bambi and Kowalczyk combined

 

[Silhouette]

Not just downhill either, Karlsson managed to look elegant even in the worst climbs where you had 30 cm of snow/slush.

Johaug looked very awkward in the same uphills, and on the flats and over the crests she is definitely affected by not having the same core strength as before her break as well as having skis that were a bit worse . Weng is afraid of the downhills after her concussion, this was probably made worse by the difficult conditions.

Andersson looked strong, but she should have upped the pace sooner if she wanted to win. Karlsson just kept the pace so high that the others didn't even manage to pass her, not to mention put in a real attack.

 

[BigCoward]

Both Laegreid and Preuss must be pleased there's an individual this week to keep it close going into he final weekend.
but I can see heartbreak for both of them, Laegreid in particular is losing points at Hollmenkollen, JTB has an insane record at the end of the season.

Can I also point out that the IBU website is about 1000 times more easy to navigate than the FIS one, if they want to grow their sport that needs sorted out ASAP.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Both Laegreid and Preuss must be pleased there's an individual this week to keep it close going into he final weekend.
but I can see heartbreak for both of them, Laegreid in particular is losing points at Hollmenkollen, JTB has an insane record at the end of the season.

Can I also point out that the IBU website is about 1000 times more easy to navigate than the FIS one, if they want to grow their sport that needs sorted out ASAP.

The biggest advantage biathlon has in the grand scheme of things is that it isn't run by FIS.

The IBU's website is easier to navigate, the IBU's communications are far clearer, the IBU's data tracker and live timing is infinitely superior, offers more options, and IBU while far from perfect (in fact in many ways pretty incompetent) are also far better at NOT shooting themselves in the foot unnecessarily like FIS seem to.

I know FIS have other sports they have to cater to and value uniform presentation across these sports as well, however, whereas IBU can dedicate themselves 100% to optimising their format for the one sport they are administering. However there MUST be a better way than FIS offer. For example, to follow live timing during the relays, you need to have either bookmarked the startlist or memorized it, because the startlist is no longer available, and the timing only shows the country; in all relays IBU will put the country down at the handover between legs and the finish, but at all intermediate time checks and shoots, the active athlete will be listed so that those viewing from the timing screen can get a greater picture of what is going on in the race at the time.

 

[Pozzovivo]

It's a sporting disaster for Johaug.

She came out of retirement purely for the 50km, she's leaves a World Championships without a Gold medal...this is Therese Johaug we are talking about. The greatest ever distance ski racer ever leaves without Gold is a sporting disaster.

??

Bjørgen has a total of 41 major championship medals, while Johaug has 27. Also, Bjørgen did not test positive for steroids (clostebol) while Johaug certainly did and got suspended. Both on sporting merit and integrity Bjørgen is way more deserving of that description.

Marit Bjørgen:

• World Championships: 26 medals (18 gold, 5 silver, 3 bronze)
• Olympic Games: 15 medals (8 gold, 4 silver, 3 bronze)

Therese Johaug:

• World Championships: 21 medals (14 gold, 4 silver, 3 bronze)
• Olympic Games: 6 medals (4 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze)

 

[BigCoward]

??

Bjørgen has a total of 41 major championship medals, while Johaug has 27. Also, Bjørgen did not test positive for steroids (clostebol) while Johaug certainly did and got suspended. Both on sporting merit and integrity Bjørgen is way more deserving of that description.

Marit Bjørgen:

• World Championships: 26 medals (18 gold, 5 silver, 3 bronze)
• Olympic Games: 15 medals (8 gold, 4 silver, 3 bronze)

Therese Johaug:

• World Championships: 21 medals (14 gold, 4 silver, 3 bronze)
• Olympic Games: 6 medals (4 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze)

9 of Bjoergens major championship medals were in sprint events.
Quote was 'greatest ever distance ski racer'.

 

[Mayomaniac]

So at least Andi Goldberger doesn't believe a word the Norwegians are saying about the "isolated incidents" regarding the Ski Jumping suits...

 

[DonAragona]

So at least Andi Goldberger doesn't believe a word the Norwegians are saying about the "isolated incidents" regarding the Ski Jumping suits...

I don't follow ski jumping, what has happened?

 

[Silhouette]

So at least Andi Goldberger doesn't believe a word the Norwegians are saying about the "isolated incidents" regarding the Ski Jumping suits...

There is 0% chance this happened once. That would be like immaculate conception. Someone filmed this, and according to the journalist who published the video they told him they would have something for him before they filmed it... So how did that happen if this was something they suddenly thought of and did only once?

Taking the word of the cheaters that this happened once is beyond naive. The only way forward is a thorough investigation, going back and talking to Stöckl and everybody who has been involved in Norwegian ski jumping the last 2-3 years at least. The coach that was caught on tape has had various roles in the team 15+ years.

They also need to ask all of the jumpers, separately, all the details about what they did or did not know.

 

[Pozzovivo]

9 of Bjoergens major championship medals were in sprint events.
Quote was 'greatest ever distance ski racer'.

The sprint is also a distance while not a very long one and also ahould be counted. Even if we take those away, Bjoergen still got more medals, so?

 

[BigCoward]

The sprint is also a distance while not a very long one and also ahould be counted. Even if we take those away, Bjoergen still got more medals, so?

The sprint is distance? That's just the weirdest take ever. I don't even know how to argue it.
Bjoergen does have more medals, but she also had a longer career and didn't lose championships to a ban. Distance palmares I'd say it's close to a wash.
At their absolute best I'd expect Johaug to beat Bjoergen 4 out of 5 at 30k, and even more at 50k.

 

[Pozzovivo]

The sprint is distance? That's just the weirdest take ever. I don't even know how to argue it.
Bjoergen does have more medals, but she also had a longer career and didn't lose championships to a ban. Distance palmares I'd say it's close to a wash.
At their absolute best I'd expect Johaug to beat Bjoergen 4 out of 5 at 30k, and even more at 50k.

No, it is not, no need to argue like that. The sprint event took 3+ minutes and had to be done 4 times for the finalist. 3+ minutes is the same as the "middle-distance" event 1500 meters running in terms of time. And if you get to the final, that's 12-13 min of competition which is about the same as 5000 meter or "long distance running". The sprint is what 2km long - it may vary a bit as far as I know. Clearly a distance event.

But, it's not a "long distance cross country skiing event" but that is not what was being said in the quote so irrelevant.

 

[BigCoward]

The sprint is what 2km long - it may vary a bit as far as I know. Clearly a distance event.

But, it's not a "long distance cross country skiing event" but that is not what was being said in the quote so irrelevant.

So by that rationale a 4k cycling pursuit is a 'distance' event because it's twice as long again?

 

[Pozzovivo]

So by that rationale a 4k cycling pursuit is a 'distance' event because it's twice as long again?

Of course it is. By definition 4 km long. Not sure how long it takes to complete but maybe 4 minutes? More than what is considered middle-distance running in duration.

It is however not among the events that we would label "long distance cycling" or anything like that. I don't understand why we are arguing over what we interpret the word "distance" to mean. That Johaug was better than Bjoergen at the longest events in cross country skiing may very well be true, I have no expertise in that, but that was not what the statement claimed.

And even so, Bjoergen have achieved more medals in both long (i.e excluding sprints) and short (i.e including sprints) distance skiing events. Also, she is not a convicted doper which I do think matters for the construct of "the greatest"

 

[OJRvE]

Forfang and Lindvik are suspended by FIS during the investigation following the suit scandal.

In addition NRK has removed expert Evensen form air since he confessed to cheating during his career.

Seems to be a culture where it’s accepted to cheat unless being caught because “everyone else is doing it”

Just read that the Nordic Conbined coach is also suspended. I am curious what indications they have of cheating in NC aswell

 

[Silhouette]

Just read that the Nordic Conbined coach is also suspended. I am curious what indications they have of cheating in NC aswell

Graabak was disqualified for using a binding that was asymmetrical. The norwegian team put in a protest (I'm not sure just exactly what they protested against, possibly procedures or some other nonsense).

The jury asks to see the ski.

In the meantime somebody in the Norwegian team has replaced the binding. The suspended coach takes the ski and shows it to the jury with a different and legal binding. He says he didn't know someone had replaced the binding. If he knew then they tried to manipulate evidence.

 

[BigCoward]

Frey is in the team for this week, wonder how he'll fare.