Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

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Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

Feb 20, 2010
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I don't like 15km replacing 30km, but I will take 15km over 0km any day.

Continues to work well for Sundby though. Good time from Tønseth as you predicted, just pushing Cologna down to 3rd. A bit disappointed Poltoranin still down outside the top 20, felt that this would suit him, especially in Classic. Niskanen also trying to rebuild, a long way from the form he had a couple of weeks ago that's for sure. I missed much of the start, what happened to Golberg? I know this kind of event isn't his forte, did he just drop out to focus on the sprint tomorrow or did he have a fall or something?

But what's this, do my eyes deceive me? Only three Norwegian women in the top 10? Indeed that's right - although they did the 1-2 with ease. A few surprise top 10s from early start numbers, which would suggest they got the best of conditions, but Sofia Henriksson's 9th place is nonetheless very impressive, since she's just 20. That Kalla is only the fourth best Swede in a distance race can't happen very often.
 
python

python

Sep 25, 2009
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...a lot of surprises. some things i could not believe my eyes !

1sr off, i made a mistake reading the start list yesterday - justyna did start, but the effect was the same, as she was NOT anywhere close. in the last 2 km she literally died. likely a recovery problem or she forgot how to pace...kalla was unrecognizable. will wait to read her comments later. the gaps among the girls are too big. johaug is unreal in the classic.

now to the things i NEVER saw in a distance world cup event. at least 3 skiers - cologna, northug and halfvarsson - raced this classic 15K on the 100% skating skis. and this was NOT a flat event ! from what i saw at the check points, they either double poled all the way or herring boned on the steepest portions. And it paid. all 3 are in top 10. It appears a grip vs glide was too close a call to be decisive. yes poltoranin was a disappointment. likely missed on waxing...can't understand what happened to the niskanen bro..his sis did much better. northug vs cologna double poling for 15k was very interesting! dario out poled the petter by 45 seconds. that's a lot. likely an indication of their V-1 and V-2 relative strength.

cologna vs sundby at the tds. for sure.
 
python

python

Sep 25, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
I really hope she didn't!!!
Click to expand...
well, if justyna
said she did die, then it must be so ;)

'i simply died'
(polish)
https://www.facebook.com/kibicujjustynie/posts/1190315924346095
----
decided to add more of the stuff i read post-race...
-kalla told the expressen she did not understand what happened to her...
-the swedish media is incinerating northug for giving 3 different answers to 3 different sources about the same question - the start of serving his conviction for drunk driving
-sundby was undecided about whether to use the skates until the last moment.
---
predictions for the tomorrow's sprint....i looked up the course and the profile...it is a relatively non-technical 1.5 km. favoures a relatively fresh and powerful sprinter like ustiugov, brandsdal, petuchov....
 
python

python

Sep 25, 2009
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fourcade animal even with one blank managed a 4th.

still, i got an impression that his total 'leg time' after both shootings was slightly slower than the shipulin's...i'm approximating - if the penalty loop would take him about 20 seconds, then he ran about 9 seconds slower ? though he was quite deliberately slow shooting prone..

the guys starting in in the 3d and 4th groups had NO chance rowing though purée... no matter - the clinic will ignore the purée when the results come for 'expert' analysis months later :p
-----
edit: nope. just saw the official stats - the fourcade 'ship' out-shipped shipulin by 3.4 sec
 
Christian

Christian

Mar 13, 2009
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Women's race in Pokljuka going on right now... first time in a long time that I am able to watch. I always watch on German TV but I don't know anyone from their team anymore. Domracheva in the lead right now before Semerenko.

Around 13:00 will be the men's race
 
D

dirkprovin

Jul 13, 2009
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Domracheva shot clean until final shoot where she missed her final shot but had built up sufficient enough lead to win. Soukalova missed 3 on her first prone which essentially wrote her out of the equation. Makarainen missed one on her 2nd prone but worked her way through the field to finish 2nd 10sec behind Domracheva. Semerenko had one miss on her 1st standing but her only hopes of victory were reliant on D & K spraying their shots. She was challenged by Wierer on the final leg but was able to kick away at the finish to secure 3rd 35sec back. The highest placed "clear shooter" was Skardino in 6th 1min15sec back.
 
python

python

Sep 25, 2009
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the lady's sprint qual's in davos ended 5 mins ago...some results are interesting. bjoergen of course muscled her way in, but i count 'only' 4 norges total. van der graaff a surprising 1/100 sec behind ! 4 germans are in...

3 american girls made it, including the finally showing form randall.

hopefully, we'll see the similar equalizing among the men in 40 minuts.

the difference btwn the 1st and last is an ASTOUNDING 20% in a 1.3 km itt:confused:

truly a Kindergarten stuff is taking place in the lady's competition :eek:
 
python

python

Sep 25, 2009
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the tds WILL take place, but it is later this season than its usual - Jan 11, 2015

http://www.fis-ski.com/cross-countr...h=1/index.html#view=dcm-calendar-grid&gender=

the problem is that they may EXCLUDE the queen even - climb up cermis. there were complains they aren't having enough snow. the last i heard it is not yet firmly decided.

as of yesterday, the past favs like northug, cologna, legkov, sundby were going to compete in it. for me though, if they dont climb up cermis, it's like removing all mt finishes it the tdf - bland, devoid of excitement.
 
Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

Feb 20, 2010
30,692
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At least we know there's plenty of snow in Oberstdorf, as anybody who's tried to watch the constantly delayed Vierschanzen there can tell you!

Mind you, it looks like they have snow in Oberhof as well, probably more than the last two years put together, so maybe they didn't need to do the move:

cam3.jpg


That said, Oberhof was never a great place to start the Tour de Ski, and was a complete afterthought at the venue in relation to the biathlon World Cup that followed it.
 
python

python

Sep 25, 2009
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Ferminal said:
Says the Toblach pursuit is just 25km but I think that's a typo and it will be the traditional Cortina start... That stage is far more critical than Cermis.
Click to expand...
unfortunately, there will be no cortina start :eek:
...The lack of natural snow forced the famous Cortina-Toblach point-to-point competition to be replaced with competitions in Toblach. The 5.0 km competition course was finished on 30th December.
Click to expand...

http://www.fis-ski.com/cross-country/news-multimedia/news/article=fis-tour-ski-snow-update.html

but, you have a point about a typo in the usually accurate fis references...not about the race start/destination but about its LENGTH. specifically, my ipod(which is directly integrated with fis calendar via a fis app) says the pursuit is 35 km...
http://www.fis-ski.com/cross-country/events-and-places/calendar/#view=dcm-calendar-grid&gender=

it is inconsistent with your link to fis...i'd prefer a 35k to 25krace even if on a boring lap :eek:
 
F

Ferminal

Jul 3, 2009
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python said:
unfortunately, there will be no cortina start :eek:


http://www.fis-ski.com/cross-country/news-multimedia/news/article=fis-tour-ski-snow-update.html

but, you have a point about a typo in the usually accurate fis references...not about the race start/destination but about its LENGTH. specifically, my ipod(which is directly integrated with fis calendar via a fis app) says the pursuit is 35 km...
http://www.fis-ski.com/cross-country/events-and-places/calendar/#view=dcm-calendar-grid&gender=

it is inconsistent with your link to fis...i'd prefer a 35k to 25krace even if on a boring lap :eek:
Click to expand...

Yeh makes sense, I assumed it was Cortina because the calendar said 35km (traditional distance). Hopefully it is 35km as it's a pretty grueling lap iirc.
 
Bavarianrider

Bavarianrider

Apr 7, 2011
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Oh the joke that calls itself Tour de Ski is starting.
And yet again organizers have made a brutally and epic parcours. Almost 60km for the girls and almost 90km for the men in 8 days. Oh it's so great isn't it:rolleyes:
And what about that legendary final climb, it's almost 400m altitude gain, what a monster!:eek:
Theres something like a mini Tour de Ski in my home area currently for hobby runners, and guess what, their finalclimb is 700m in altitude gain. But hey, you surely can't ask that from world cup runners.:rolleyes:
 
python

python

Sep 25, 2009
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Ferminal said:
Hopefully it is 35km as it's a pretty grueling lap iirc.
Click to expand...
it IS a very tough loop

Page_1_toblach.jpg


vs a continuous point-to-point travel


pro_cortina-toblach_rz_22.121-700x385.jpg


indeed, racing a pursuit on the 2015 toblach 5k x7 would be a world of difference vs. a traditional 35 k cortina-toblach, imo.
...the chaser(s) would have a definite advantage on a jagged loop with 12 hills vs. a 2-3%, 17 k long uphill followed by an 18 k long downhill...better chances to tire the chased, more direct view points, better race chrono feedback from coaches, better opportunity for a superior single skater (like hellner or legkov) to chase down w/o a pack.
in that sense, the loop format could be more exciting if the gaps are manageable (1-2 minutes).
i hope.

re. legkov, it seems strange...a few days ago he was in germany fixing his back, then celebrating new year with family, then traveling to the race locale AHEAD of his team.

isn't it too much for the usually consistent and discipline legkov ? plus breaking with reto and having virtually no results this season.
 
Bavarianrider

Bavarianrider

Apr 7, 2011
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python said:
it IS a very tough loop

Page_1_toblach.jpg


vs a continuous point-to-point travel


pro_cortina-toblach_rz_22.121-700x385.jpg


indeed, racing a pursuit on the 2015 toblach 5k x7 would be a world of difference vs. a traditional 35 k cortina-toblach, imo.
...the chaser(s) would have a definite advantage on a jagged loop with 12 hills vs. a 2-3%, 17 k long uphill followed by an 18 k long downhill...better chances to tire the chased, more direct view points, better race chrono feedback from coaches, better opportunity for a superior single skater (like hellner or legkov) to chase down w/o a pack.
in that sense, the loop format could be more exciting if the gaps are manageable (1-2 minutes).
i hope.

re. legkov, it seems strange...a few days ago he was in germany fixing his back, then celebrating new year with family, then traveling to the race locale AHEAD of his team.

isn't it too much for the usually consistent and discipline legkov ? plus breaking with reto and having virtually no results this season.
Click to expand...

Honestly i think it's the other way round.
Traditional loops are better for the guys in front. It's much harder for the chasers to organize and work together compared to the motorway to Toblach.
Anyway, I think the 35km race to Toblach should be an individual start in the first place.
 
python

python

Sep 25, 2009
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Bavarianrider said:
Honestly i think it's the other way round.
Traditional loops are better for the guys in front. It's much harder for the chasers to organize and work together compared to the motorway to Toblach.
Anyway, I think the 35km race to Toblach should be an individual start in the first place.
Click to expand...
of course, chasing down a leader in a pursuit xc race is not a black/white issue.

as i mentioned above, imo - which is based on the real cortina-toblach race results and the brilliant analysis by jan kocbach in the worldofxc.com - a strong and intelligent leader has a better chance to stay away from his chasers in classic cortina-toblach profile vs. a jagged loop.

while respecting your opinion, i am not here to convert anyone into my view. i stated my reasons. the rest will be known in 6 days...

but i will give you this...theoretically, whilst clearly this isn't cycling, indeed there is a higher premium - that is, a skier stands to benefit more - from a steady pace skiing in the COOPERATIVE pack at high velocities. traditionally, cortina-toblach average pace was btwn 27-29 kph. the last 18 km downhill they race at almost cycling speeds - 30 -34 kph ! for instance, in 2013 the well cooperating 3d pack almost caught up to the hellner/bauer group in the last 8km.

that was more an exception to the rule than THE rule... the cooperation, both up and down, while at places it worked, had typically broken down.

in the last 4 years, the field had typically coagulated into 3 main packs to stay that way all the way into the finish...the reasons could be several. one obvious was that there is a high price to closing the gap too fast up a deceptively shallow hill (ex, harvey in 2013 and northug in 2011). after paying that price the chasers, if they survived, were reluctant to work again in the just adjoined groups (the doped up duerr in 2014 was an exception).

i will post more of my observation closer to the race itself.
 
search

search

Aug 29, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
At least we know there's plenty of snow in Oberstdorf, as anybody who's tried to watch the constantly delayed Vierschanzen there can tell you!

Mind you, it looks like they have snow in Oberhof as well, probably more than the last two years put together, so maybe they didn't need to do the move

That said, Oberhof was never a great place to start the Tour de Ski, and was a complete afterthought at the venue in relation to the biathlon World Cup that followed it.
Click to expand...

...and it looks like they decided to use a fairly tough course, including the Burgstall climb again

http://tramino.s3.amazonaws.com/s/tour-de-ski/632659/prolog-pursuit-damen-33-km-01.jpg

http://tramino.s3.amazonaws.com/s/tour-de-ski/632660/prolog-pursuit-herren-375-km-01.jpg
 
Bavarianrider

Bavarianrider

Apr 7, 2011
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