Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[Eddy Evenepoel]

The Tour GC shouldn't be a matter of balance between sprinters and distance racers. It's literally on the calendar for the purpose of being the equivalent to a cycling GT, that was what it was created to be. It should be a matter of balance between the different types of distance racers, with the sprints as a sideshow where the GC guys and girls have to decide whether it's worth expending the effort for the time bonuses, rather than be handed a big time bonus for just making the quarter finals.

If I’m not mistaken by my memory the FIS with Capol and Ulvang publicly said before the first Tour de Ski that the target was for the best all round skier to win, so I think you perhaps have a wrong perception of what the Tour are supposed to be. It was 2 sprints with massive bonus seconds already from the start, so I don’t think it’s correct at all to say that the sprint races were just meant to be a side show.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If I’m not mistaken by my memory the FIS with Capol and Ulvang publicly said before the first Tour de Ski that the target was for the best all round skier to win, so I think you perhaps have a wrong perception of what the Tour are supposed to be. It was 2 sprints with massive bonus seconds already from the start, so I don’t think it’s correct at all to say that the sprint races were just meant to be a side show.

The best "all round" skier was based on the calendar at the time, it was not supposed to reflect a calendar that is 50% sprints, that's a development that postdates the Tour de Ski.

Again, giving bonuses for the sprints is not the problem to me, it's giving as much as they do, plus giving a huge amount of bonus time for people that don't even do particularly well in the sprint that irks me. 30+ seconds of bonus even if you don't make the final is just ridiculous.

Yes, there is the issue that not having those bonuses might impact the other stages, but it's very much a case of FIS seeing a problem of their own making (no gaps in boring mass start events on cruddy courses) and deciding to solve it by making the racing more artificial (inventing fake gaps in the sprints to make up for the lack of real ones). We've had a few boring GTs in recent years where riders race conservatively or one rider is stronger than everybody else, and nobody is suggesting we start giving 20 minutes down to 1 bonus time for sprint winners to help Jasper Philipsen provide some opposition to Tadej Pogačar.

As you mentioned yesterday, Klæbo is going to be tough to beat anyway with his skillset, he doesn't need a big time advantage gifting to him on a silver platter. It doesn't make the race, it destroys it.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

The best "all round" skier was based on the calendar at the time, it was not supposed to reflect a calendar that is 50% sprints, that's a development that postdates the Tour de Ski.

No, you are wrong on this point.
In the 2006/07 season 12 of the 29 World Cup races (planned) were sprint races. In 2024/25 11 of the 30 World Cup races are sprint races.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

No, you are wrong on this point.
In the 2006/07 season 12 of the 29 World Cup races (planned) were sprint races. In 2024/25 11 of the 30 World Cup races are sprint races.

Jesus, the mutilation of the calendar was earlier than I thought. Although this year's 11/30 is lower than it has been several seasons in the interim, and the move toward fewer relays and more Team Sprints for inclusivity also is a factor in the perception.

Even so, however, the Grand Tours are in theory to sort out the best all rounder in cycling, and sprinting is a tangential skill because it doesn't in and of itself give the ability to gain time, which is what the race is scored on, so that comparison still applies I feel.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That long descent is really going to keep neutralising things unfortunately. In the women's race there is at least enough difference in the level at the front that there will be selectivity, but I fear for the men's race just ending up in a bunch gallop as a result. Diggins' descending skills are top notch, and that completely killed the momentum up front from Slind and Johaug that time around, they need a lot more time than that by the summit to get away. Especially here in what is just about her best venue on the calendar historically.

Edit: yep, Mass Start with a long descent down to the line, absolutely nothing of value or interest here. Who cares about creating gaps with actual racing when you can create arbitrary ones?

Here goes Diggins with a sprint finish, she should have this comfortably, and she earns... nothing for it. She wins a 15k classic, which is both an indictment of the crappiness of the race and an impressive feat for her in her weaker technique, but the fact she gets no gain from that but a minute handed to her for yesterday's sprint means that she pulls off one of the most outlying wins of her life and it means NOTHING, and one of the most irrelevant, interchangeable wins of her career and she gains a minute for free. This race is a joke.

 

[KZD]

You know a course is badly designed when Diggins can win a classic mass-start.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Diggins will win the TDS. Noch doubt about that.
Will be a total snoozefest in the mens race with a 20 man bunch sprint in the end. Simply to Flat a Loop.

 

[Mayomaniac]

They'd only have to to the lap the other way around to make it more selective...
Slind was the strongest, the highlight at the race was Gina del Rio's crazy family and friends.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

They'd only have to to the lap the other way around to make it more selective...
Slind was the strongest, the highlight at the race was Gina del Rio's crazy family and friends.

They'd have to want it to be selective to do that. There's a reason the classic is mass start and on this course, and it's that they wanted to keep it close today and minimise the impact of the stage before the first rest day. This is mission accomplished as far as FIS is concerned.

 

[Mayomaniac]

They'd have to want it to be selective to do that. There's a reason the classic is mass start and on this course, and it's that they wanted to keep it close today and minimise the impact of the stage before the first rest day. This is mission accomplished as far as FIS is concerned.

Use the 5km lap or the even longer, harder one that they never use in the worldcup to make it a bit harder, but by going clockwise you'd turn the long, flattish descent in a long uphill drag before the actual climbs + less flat to the stadium.

 

[Mayomaniac]

20km skating individual won't be on the laps, but towards Landro and back (part of Toblach-Cortina). With it being not a climbing heavy course double poling monsters like Slind and Nyenget are my pick for the win, their skillset translates well to easy terrain v2 for a long amount of time.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

20km skating individual won't be on the laps, but towards Landro and back (part of Toblach-Cortina). With it being not a climbing heavy course double poling monsters like Slind and Nyenget are my pick for the win, their skillset translates well to easy terrain v2 for a long amount of time.

This actually makes a lot of sense, make it an individual start power test on easy terrain which is then diametrically opposed to the Alpe Cermis pure climb.

I wish the techniques were swapped with today, so today's mass start designed around not creating any gaps was freestyle and the power test individual start was classic, but I guess they didn't want to make it a pure Loppet calendar style double pole fest. As it is this year it really feels like the only classic stage which will have any relevance whatsoever is... the sprint, because they'll be handing out bonus seconds like candy.

 

[search]

yeah, it's more or less a steady 2% false flat tomorrow, first up, then down.

 

[Mayomaniac]

This actually makes a lot of sense, make it an individual start power test on easy terrain which is then diametrically opposed to the Alpe Cermis pure climb.

I wish the techniques were swapped with today, so today's mass start designed around not creating any gaps was freestyle and the power test individual start was classic, but I guess they didn't want to make it a pure Loppet calendar style double pole fest. As it is this year it really feels like the only classic stage which will have any relevance whatsoever is... the sprint, because they'll be handing out bonus seconds like candy.

At least the stupid val di fiemme mass start race with the Zorzi hill is a skiathlon this time...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

At least the stupid val di fiemme mass start race with the Zorzi hill is a skiathlon this time...

TBF last year it might have had some chance of something due to tired limbs coming late in the Tour, but the weather completely nullified everything and turned it into a bunch sprint.

Hopes weren't super high but that sorry spectacle wasn't solely FIS' fault for once.

Edit:
Today, however... this is... I can't even really say "something". It's nothing.

 

[Bavarianrider]

What a beautiful race, Not.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Pellegrino blew his chance to do better by staying at the back on top of the 2nd longer climb, then he was at the back of the group until the sprint hill started.

Yeah, crap race, I hope they at least use a harder lap for the pursuit.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

At least FIS got the outcome they were planning for: no gaps and the big names winning.

 

[Bavarianrider]

yeah, it's more or less a steady 2% false flat tomorrow, first up, then down.

It is an unusal test, for sure. It is pretty much 40 Minutes all out with no rest. That being said, I expect gaps to be small in the mens race. It would nee 30km to open gaps on a course like that.

 

[Mayomaniac]

What a beautiful race, Not.

Not using harder laps that are longer is peak Fis...

 

[Mayomaniac]

It is an unusal test, for sure. It is pretty much 40 Minutes all out with no rest. That being said, I expect gaps to be small in the mens race. It would nee 30km to open gaps on a course like that.

Amundsen and Nyenget will probably fight for the win, I don't rate Klaebo that high when it comes to such a long, constant effort in skating.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I blame mainly Vermeulen, Lapalus, Moseby, Amundsen and Schumacher. On the 2nd loop they got given a significant gap on the big climb and still had a clear gap in the bottom of the next uphill up to 6,1, but instead of powering on Amundsen and Moseby just cruised side by side and the gap vaporized immediately. It is possible to make a super hard race also in easy courses, but it takes balls. Those 5 were given the chance, but lacked the balls.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Amundsen and Nyenget will probably fight for the win, I don't rate Klaebo that high when it comes to such a long, constant effort in skating.

I expect Krueger to be the man to beat. Fjorden Ree should also be extremely strong. I’m expecting a pretty standard 7 or 8 Norwegians in the top 10.

From the non-Norwegians I think it might suit Schumacher and Musgrave really well and Poromaa should probably also be good. Vermeulen, Lapalus and Moch are probably much better when it’s more V1 and not a long V2 grind, but should still be competitive. Maybe not Moch, he doesn’t look good.

 

[KZD]

yeah, it's more or less a steady 2% false flat tomorrow, first up, then down.

This reminds me of that 'Scandinavian Tour' race where Bolshunov destroyed everyone in 2020.

Nyenget is my pick for the win.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I expect Krueger to be the man to beat. Fjorden Ree should also be extremely strong. I’m expecting a pretty standard 7 or 8 Norwegians in the top 10.

From the non-Norwegians I think it might suit Schumacher and Musgrave really well and Poromaa should probably also be good. Vermeulen, Lapalus and Moch are probably much better when it’s more V1 and not a long V2 grind, but should still be competitive. Maybe not Moch, he doesn’t look good.

I think the uphill is not steep/hard for Ree and to a lesser extent also Krüger, even if Krüger loves the altitude.
Yeah, Musgrave and Schumacher are on my list and you're right about the central european lightweights. I also think that Klaebo's v1 is better than his v2, at least in distance races.