Nordic World Ski Championship

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Sep 2, 2009
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Nastyy said:
Because XC Skiing, Ski jumping and Nordic Combined come from the Nordic Countries thus they are included in the same program. Though biathlon also comes from Norway it's more mid-European. Also XC skiing, ski jumping and NC are under FIS and biathlon is under IBU.

And because it has always been this way I don't think it will ever change.
Thanks for clearing that up. I was only asking because i like cross country and biathlon the most.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with me wanting to post this hilarious video whatsoever. ski shooting
 
Mar 10, 2009
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python said:
let's not forget another critical component for a classic style (in addition to pure waxing issues) - a choice of more or less stiff skis depending on the runner's weight style and the course profile.

for example today, with the last 3 kms mostly down and flat a stiffer ski for a heavier runner would make a lot of sense sacrificing some gripping comfort on steeper portions of the course.

it's really an art that more often than not depends on the size of the team's budget.
Well the choice of the ski is much easier than the waxing. There's not as many options and the staff that takes care of it should know what to pick. Also the skiers themselves should know that.

Of course budget plays a part. Finland has a very poor XC Skiing Union and their finance is very poor. The Union is very old fashioned and old master skier Juha Mieto just recently criticized them and Heikkinen criticized them too after his win today. I think some of the waxing staff are doing their job for free this year.

Then there's Norway who have a Sky-like bus for their team and everything is tip top.

Does anybody know Sweden's and Norway's teams for tomorrow's team sprint? Finland's team is Lähteenmäki - Saarine, which will be a tough to beat especially now when Björgen isn't doing the race tomorrow.
 
Feb 12, 2010
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Nastyy said:
Well the choice of the ski is much easier than the waxing. There's not as many options and the staff that takes care of it should know what to pick. Also the skiers themselves should know that.

Of course budget plays a part. Finland has a very poor XC Skiing Union and their finance is very poor. The Union is very old fashioned and old master skier Juha Mieto just recently criticized them and Heikkinen criticized them too after his win today. I think some of the waxing staff are doing their job for free this year.

Then there's Norway who have a Sky-like bus for their team and everything is tip top.

Does anybody know Sweden's and Norway's teams for tomorrow's team sprint? Finland's team is Lähteenmäki - Saarine, which will be a tough to beat especially now when Björgen isn't doing the race tomorrow.
Waxing is indeed more difficult than picking the right ski's, but the waxing conditions in Oslo haven't been that difficult I would think, so it's strange that they've missed so much. That might indicate that they've missed with the ski's. Granted it isn't unheard of to miss with the prep, but three days in a row is quite strange. I'm confused and I'm sure the Swedish waxing team are as well.

In an interview with NRK the Finnish coach said they had one full time employed waxing man and I think something like four or five working for them five months of the year.

I would think Norway's going with Jacobsen and Falla, Northug and Hattestad and Sweden's with Kalla and Ingemarsdotter, Modin and Jönsson, but I haven't read the starting lineups for Sweden.
 
Bike Boy said:
Why does the program not include Biathlon? Cross country and Biathlon has more in common than cross country and ski jumping in my opinion, maybe this incident got it banned?
Because no one venue is capable of handling that much awesomeness. It's stretching most venues' awesomeness-holding capability to hold the Nordic Worlds or the Biathlon Worlds by themselves, so holding both together would simply have catastrophic consequences.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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cartman said:
I would think Norway's going with Jacobsen and Falla, Northug and Hattestad and Sweden's with Kalla and Ingemarsdotter, Modin and Jönsson, but I haven't read the starting lineups for Sweden.
Yes, you were correct on all teams. Start lists here, women and men.

Can't see anyone beating Norway in men's race. Sweden looks good for second if they get their skis in shape and the bronze will be a battle of Finland, Russia and Canada. Of course in sprints surprises happen often and between those 5 it could go anyway. Can't see others coming close.

In women it's much harder to predict a winner. Finland looking extremely good on paper now. Norway of course dangerous even without Björgen, I'm just not convinced with Jacobsen. I don't believe in Italy's chances 'cause I don't think Follis can hang with the best in classic. Hard to say about Sweden, most likely they can't get anywhere with their skis but if they do, they'll fight for medals, but I don't believe in gold. Watch Japan for a surprise.

Also on the menu is nordic combined's large hill competition. More suitable for better jumpers. Hopefully Lamy Chappuis gets his act together and takes his medal. Germans looking very good for this one, hopefully they won't dominate like they did in the normal hill competition.
 
I don't know, I was kinda rooting for Rydzek to make it an all-German podium once the top 5 was more or less sorted, but Gottwald was just far too strong. I wouldn't have wanted Gottwald to miss out on a medal cos of his crash in the final corner either.

Rydzek is what, 19? Looks like Germany have a bright future in NC. Certainly brighter than in XC though they were very good at the Junior Worlds if I recall.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
Rydzek is what, 19? Looks like Germany have a bright future in NC. Certainly brighter than in XC though they were very good at the Junior Worlds if I recall.
Yes he's 19. It's not unusual though to be good at NC at a very young age. I've been waiting for the Germand youngsters to rise to the very top a few years now. First Edelmann and then Frenzel. Neither of them have made it in the World Cup so far. Of course it's better to win the Worlds than World Cup races but still I don't consider to be at the very top.

And yeah Germany had good Junior Worlds. Weeger took a gold and a silver. Wick and Dobler also had good showings.
 
cartman said:
Waxing is indeed more difficult than picking the right ski's, but the waxing conditions in Oslo haven't been that difficult I would think, so it's strange that they've missed so much. That might indicate that they've missed with the ski's. Granted it isn't unheard of to miss with the prep, but three days in a row is quite strange. I'm confused and I'm sure the Swedish waxing team are as well.
Ya, it might be more of a ski issue. It seems like the problem is getting the balance just right. For the Swedish riders it seems that some have had good glide while others have had good grip but none has had both good glide and grip. Some of the riders have admitted afterwards that they made the mistake of choosing too soft skis.
 
Nastyy said:
Yes he's 19. It's not unusual though to be good at NC at a very young age. I've been waiting for the Germand youngsters to rise to the very top a few years now. First Edelmann and then Frenzel. Neither of them have made it in the World Cup so far. Of course it's better to win the Worlds than World Cup races but still I don't consider to be at the very top.

And yeah Germany had good Junior Worlds. Weeger took a gold and a silver. Wick and Dobler also had good showings.
I remember Weeger's gold. That was a good race. I thought he'd gone too early, and Wick spent a while sitting in second or third place in the chase group while the two Russians worked themselves to the ground trying to chase him, then Wick went solo into the gap when they had to drop back for a bit of respite. It really felt almost like cycling tactics.
 
Jul 5, 2010
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Nastyy said:
Though biathlon also comes from Norway it's more mid-European.
Not really sure if that is all true, altough there seems to be little information available before 1924. What some soldiers did 1767 seems to have been shooting at a target while skiing downhill..

I don't think biathlon predated pentathlon.
 
After intensive work during the evening and night the swedish waxing team thinks they have solved the problems they have been having. The problems have been finding the right mixture of wax for the tricky snow conditions in Holmenkollen. The snow there is what is called "dead snow" which means that it's so tightly packed that there is no crystallization in the snow and that makes it tricky to find the right wax. They know claim to have had a major breakthrough but won't go into details but we'll see how it goes in the sprint relays today.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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ingsve said:
After intensive work during the evening and night the swedish waxing team thinks they have solved the problems they have been having. The problems have been finding the right mixture of wax for the tricky snow conditions in Holmenkollen. The snow there is what is called "dead snow" which means that it's so tightly packed that there is no crystallization in the snow and that makes it tricky to find the right wax. They know claim to have had a major breakthrough but won't go into details but we'll see how it goes in the sprint relays today.
i would be a little surprized if an experienced waxing team ran into a 'dead snow' first time. not prejudging, but as usual, waxing matters are an internal team secret and never advertised.

we have only one hour to wait and see how they solved the problem.
 
The latest is that it was the structure that was the problem for the swedish waxers and when they did the testing to try and get it right they screwed up the waxing as well.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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ok, after the lady's and man's semifinals we can firmly acknowledge that the swedes fixed their waxing:) my prediction, they podium in both finals.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Well Lamy Chappuis got his win today. While I'm delighted to see him win, it also shows the poor level of Nordic combined. If Lamy Chappuis can take the Worlds when he's way off his best form is pretty sad. He has already won the World Cup overall too. Though Stecher's hopes of winning the overall were smashed by his injury, would've been a close call otherwise.

If the Germans, Frenzel and Rydzek don't up their game next season it's going to be a boring one. With Gottwald calling it quits and maybe Stecher too there's really no competition. Kokslien maybe, if he can get his ski jumping more constant, can challange Lamy Chappuis. But other than him I can't see anyone else. Of course I'm assuming here that Lamy Chappuis gets back to his normal in skiing. And when he does he maybe unbeatable next season.

And exciting XC races again! Too bad we (Finland) lost the gold in the change. Lähteenmäki was too far and when Saarinen didn't come as fast as she should've, Lähteenmäki had to slow and while she was almost standing Kalla was already in full speed. But nonetheless great result for Finland, especially Lähteenmäki. Her first medal in elites. She's going to be the biggest skiing star of the decade.

In men's race we could've had better result with different skiing order. Jauhojärvi had such a kick that it may have been enough for even gold. Nousiainen didn't quite have what it takes in the end. Bit of a surprise there by Canada, didn't expect them to go all the way. But just better to have new winners. Norway would've done better with Northug doing the last leg, Hattestad isn't the sprint monster he was two years ago.
 
Nastyy said:
Norway would've done better with Northug doing the last leg, Hattestad isn't the sprint monster he was two years ago.
Not necessarily. Hattestad is plenty good still but he suffered in the sprint because he had to do all the work of bringing Nousiainen back while Harvey could save energy by not doing as much work as Hattestad. The main problem was that Northug was a little too far back when Jauhojärvi started his attack and had Northug been closer the gap might not have been as big as it got.
 
Nastyy said:
Well Lamy Chappuis got his win today. While I'm delighted to see him win, it also shows the poor level of Nordic combined. If Lamy Chappuis can take the Worlds when he's way off his best form is pretty sad. He has already won the World Cup overall too. Though Stecher's hopes of winning the overall were smashed by his injury, would've been a close call otherwise.

If the Germans, Frenzel and Rydzek don't up their game next season it's going to be a boring one. With Gottwald calling it quits and maybe Stecher too there's really no competition. Kokslien maybe, if he can get his ski jumping more constant, can challange Lamy Chappuis. But other than him I can't see anyone else. Of course I'm assuming here that Lamy Chappuis gets back to his normal in skiing. And when he does he maybe unbeatable next season.
Frenzel and Rydzek are both very young and I have high hopes for them. Yes, it looks like JLC may be unbeatable with the likes of Gottwald disappearing, but then you're asking for an improvement in Kokslien's ski jumping that would not require any more of a change than for JLC to go from his skiing of 2010-11 back to his earlier skiing form.

The problem is not so much the lack of strength, it's the lack of depth. There are very few people in Nordic Combined who can be genuinely considered for podium places in events, so even if JLC is strolling away with the title, there's only a handful of people battling behind him. Nobody believes that more than about 10 people have a chance at the World Championship level. I don't think that World Championship level is poor per se, just that there are not enough people at that level, which hurts the competition aspect.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
Frenzel and Rydzek are both very young and I have high hopes for them. Yes, it looks like JLC may be unbeatable with the likes of Gottwald disappearing, but then you're asking for an improvement in Kokslien's ski jumping that would not require any more of a change than for JLC to go from his skiing of 2010-11 back to his earlier skiing form.

The problem is not so much the lack of strength, it's the lack of depth. There are very few people in Nordic Combined who can be genuinely considered for podium places in events, so even if JLC is strolling away with the title, there's only a handful of people battling behind him. Nobody believes that more than about 10 people have a chance at the World Championship level. I don't think that World Championship level is poor per se, just that there are not enough people at that level, which hurts the competition aspect.
Yes they're young, but I've waited for Frenzel to come up and make the final breakthrough. Okay he's a world champ now, but in the World Cup races I don't think he has even podiumed this year in the World Cup. After good 2008 I thought he was going to be the next Ackermann but he hasn't progressed like that since. Rydzek is still very much an unwritten book.

And I think it's easier for Lamy Chappuis to achieve that leven in skiing, because he has done that before. Kokslien has never been good/constant jumper.

And guess you're kinda right about the depth. We're far from the days of Moan, Ackermann, Manninen, Lajunen, Kircheisen, Hammer etc. battling it out. Those races in the early 00's were really what made me a nordic combined fan. Nowadays the races are more or less boring, following two patterns. One is that someone has a significant lead over the good skiers and takes the win with ease, and the others near him are really poor on skis. And the other pattern is that good skiers jump decently and take the win easily. In both ways there's a huge group in places 4-15.
And the lack of depth seems just to become worse. All Austrias top guys are old and past their prime. Only Germany and France seem to be able to bring new flesh to the top scene. Though Jelenko's a nice surprise, I have big hopes for him.
 
There is also a slight random aspect over time in NC because the two disciplines are so very diffrent. At times there is a good ski jumper who can also ski decently and other times you have great skiers who can jump decently. Over time these two types come and go and that means that if the "cycles" happen to be out of synch so to speak there can sometimes be periods where there is the kind of vacuum that is seen right now.

Another aspect that influences things over time is that ski jumping can be a very tricky talent that you can lose rather quickly. This is especially not uncommon with younger athletes who break through at 17-18 as great NC skiers by jumping really well and skiing decently but then as they age and put on more muscle etc they lose the edge they once had in the hill and if they can't compensate in the skiing then they tend to disappear.
 
Though I know this is the Holmenkollen thread, I thought I'd not interrupt the forum with another thread, so I'll start on Khantiy-Mansiysk.

Great race from the Norwegians in the mixed relay to take the gold; Bø looks mighty strong, as does Neuner, her and Mäkäräinen (who is practically a one-woman team) were incredibly strong in the women's part of the event. A Magdalena Neuner that can shoot clear is a very dangerous Magdalena Neuner indeed. I'd be afraid of Tora Berger - sometimes she just gets in the zone on the shooting range and those targets go down at twice the speed of any other athlete. Good race from Peiffer to hold off Bjørndalen, but Michael Greis just had no answer to the yellow bib in the closing stages. Russia will be very concerned about Sleptsova's poor form in particular, but the Russian men looked pretty good, Ustyugov especially.
 
Libertine Seguros said:
Though I know this is the Holmenkollen thread, I thought I'd not interrupt the forum with another thread, so I'll start on Khantiy-Mansiysk.

Great race from the Norwegians in the mixed relay to take the gold; Bø looks mighty strong, as does Neuner, her and Mäkäräinen (who is practically a one-woman team) were incredibly strong in the women's part of the event. A Magdalena Neuner that can shoot clear is a very dangerous Magdalena Neuner indeed. I'd be afraid of Tora Berger - sometimes she just gets in the zone on the shooting range and those targets go down at twice the speed of any other athlete. Good race from Peiffer to hold off Bjørndalen, but Michael Greis just had no answer to the yellow bib in the closing stages. Russia will be very concerned about Sleptsova's poor form in particular, but the Russian men looked pretty good, Ustyugov especially.
Björndalen looks like his age has finally caught up with him. He hasn't really been himself this year and it looks like I'll have to get used to him as merely a good skier rather than someone who destroys everyone whenever he gets on a pair of skis. Still, with his experience and the shooting he can pull off at times he is still a danger in every race he enters.
 

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