Not Official: No Galibier and telegraphe in le tour?

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Oct 9, 2010
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Re: Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
bonaqua said:
After descending from Col du Glandon or Col du Croix de Fer, one option for the new route would be Allemond - Villard Reculas - La Garde - Le Freney d'Oisans - Le Bourg-d'Oisans - Alpe d'Huez. Really nice, small roads (D211B and D211A) and more climbing before MTF in Alpe d'Huez. I rode those roads on March.
This would result in descending half of the Alpe climb to get from where the Villard-Reculas and Alpe d'Huez roads meet to the road from La Garde to Le Freney d'Oisans, right? If so, I can't imagine that will be possible, simply because of the amount of fans that will line the road that the riders are trying to descend.
Yep, the descent using Alpe road to La Garde is around 8km and as you said it would be really difficult to secure the road. Maybe then instead of descending, do the short climb to Alpe d'Huez and then descent via Sarennes and then climb back again, this time all the way up.

Anyway the climb from Allemond via Villard Reculas to the Alpe road is around 11,4km with 750m ascend. The road is in good condition and it is a very nice climb. After Villard Reculas there is a short descent.

One option in the opposite side of the valley would be to do the Ornon - Villard-Reymond - Villard-Notre-Dame loop, but these roads are very narrow and the connecting road between Villard-Reymond - Villard-Notre-Dame is not asphalt. I rode from Ornon to Villard-Reymond, but didn't do the connecting road because of the snow. I haven't been in Villard-Notre-Dame, but as someone mentioned the road back to Bourg d'Oisans is very tricky, narrow, steep with some very dark, narrow tunnels.
 
Re: Re:

bonaqua said:
Yep, the descent using Alpe road to La Garde is around 8km and as you said it would be really difficult to secure the road. Maybe then instead of descending, do the short climb to Alpe d'Huez and then descent via Sarennes and then climb back again, this time all the way up.

Anyway the climb from Allemond via Villard Reculas to the Alpe road is around 11,4km with 750m ascend. The road is in good condition and it is a very nice climb. After Villard Reculas there is a short descent.

One option in the opposite side of the valley would be to do the Ornon - Villard-Reymond - Villard-Notre-Dame loop, but these roads are very narrow and the connecting road between Villard-Reymond - Villard-Notre-Dame is not asphalt. I rode from Ornon to Villard-Reymond, but didn't do the connecting road because of the snow. I haven't been in Villard-Notre-Dame, but as someone mentioned the road back to Bourg d'Oisans is very tricky, narrow, steep with some very dark, narrow tunnels.
From the venerable (and sadly unfinished!) Linkinito thread.

I'd absolutely love to see this raced. :D
 
Red Rick said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Red Rick said:
My hate isn't with the Galibier, it's with Alp d'Huez
Pretty sure Libertine Seguros can dig up at least 150 climbs that are overall better than Alp d'Huez in terms of overall hardness, connectivity to other hard climbs and or scenery,

So many July tards think it's hardest climb if cycling, whilst it's barely worth to be HC.
Right, let's go!

(in order of when they came to my mind, not any particular ranking. Some are pretty debatable I think)
1. Monte Zoncolan

150. Passo Giau (south)

Phew, I was getting bored by the end there but luckily I left off quite a few famous ones as I'd have been annoyed if I had to give up.
Lol, I can't believe you just did that. That's awesome
That was awesome indeed. LS always putting effort in his posts.
 

Singer01

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Nov 18, 2013
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Libertine Seguros said:
Red Rick said:
My hate isn't with the Galibier, it's with Alp d'Huez
Pretty sure Libertine Seguros can dig up at least 150 climbs that are overall better than Alp d'Huez in terms of overall hardness, connectivity to other hard climbs and or scenery,

So many July tards think it's hardest climb if cycling, whilst it's barely worth to be HC.
Right, let's go!

(in order of when they came to my mind, not any particular ranking. Some are pretty debatable I think)
1. Monte Zoncolan


150. Passo Giau (south)

Phew, I was getting bored by the end there but luckily I left off quite a few famous ones as I'd have been annoyed if I had to give up.
when you see a list like that it does make you wonder why the same 4 or 5 climbs tend to appear in every Giro/Tour/Vuelta.

are all of them suitable for a grand tour MTF logistically?
 
Singer01 said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Red Rick said:
My hate isn't with the Galibier, it's with Alp d'Huez
Pretty sure Libertine Seguros can dig up at least 150 climbs that are overall better than Alp d'Huez in terms of overall hardness, connectivity to other hard climbs and or scenery,

So many July tards think it's hardest climb if cycling, whilst it's barely worth to be HC.
Right, let's go!

(in order of when they came to my mind, not any particular ranking. Some are pretty debatable I think)
1. Monte Zoncolan


150. Passo Giau (south)

Phew, I was getting bored by the end there but luckily I left off quite a few famous ones as I'd have been annoyed if I had to give up.
when you see a list like that it does make you wonder why the same 4 or 5 climbs tend to appear in every Giro/Tour/Vuelta.

are all of them suitable for a grand tour MTF logistically?
not all of them are in Italy/France/Spain so you can use some of these climbs only in smaller races.
 

Singer01

BANNED
Nov 18, 2013
2,043
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Gigs_98 said:
Singer01 said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Red Rick said:
My hate isn't with the Galibier, it's with Alp d'Huez
Pretty sure Libertine Seguros can dig up at least 150 climbs that are overall better than Alp d'Huez in terms of overall hardness, connectivity to other hard climbs and or scenery,

So many July tards think it's hardest climb if cycling, whilst it's barely worth to be HC.
Right, let's go!

(in order of when they came to my mind, not any particular ranking. Some are pretty debatable I think)
1. Monte Zoncolan


150. Passo Giau (south)

Phew, I was getting bored by the end there but luckily I left off quite a few famous ones as I'd have been annoyed if I had to give up.
when you see a list like that it does make you wonder why the same 4 or 5 climbs tend to appear in every Giro/Tour/Vuelta.

are all of them suitable for a grand tour MTF logistically?
not all of them are in Giro/France/Spain so you can use some of these climbs only in smaller races.
sorry, you're right, i didn't make myself clear. are all of them near enough to be used in one of the 3 week grand tours suitable logistically.
 
Singer01 said:
sorry, you're right, i didn't make myself clear. are all of them near enough to be used in one of the 3 week grand tours suitable logistically.
No, there are around 5 climbs in Colombia (Letras, Vino, Verjón, Escobero, La Línea), one in Bolivia (if this is La Cumbre that Libertine mentions, although I thing the challenge is height, not steepness), one in Japan (Fuji).

@Libertine: Talking about Colombia, I thing there are more important and/or impressive climbs than some of those mentioned: Alto de Minas (from La Pintada), La China, El Limonar, El Crucero (similar to Letras). And, in this worldwide selection... There should be one or 2 climbs in Peru and Chile, that could be in a top selections
 
Oh, definitely, unfortunately I'm less familiar with them and so they don't come to mind. For the record though, of the 150:
38 are in Italy
31 are in France
29 are in Spain
17 are in Switzerland
16 are in Austria
5 are in Colombia
3 are in Portugal
2 are in Germany
2 are in Norway
The USA, Japan, Slovenia, Poland, Liechtenstein, Bulgaria, Bolivia, Kazakhstan and Slovakia have 1 each.

That makes slightly more than 150 as there are a couple of climbs on borders where both sides count (as opposed to, say, Spindlerpass which is only Guillén-fetishist from the Polish side, the Czech side is more conventional).
 
slosada said:
Singer01 said:
sorry, you're right, i didn't make myself clear. are all of them near enough to be used in one of the 3 week grand tours suitable logistically.
No, there are around 5 climbs in Colombia (Letras, Vino, Verjón, Escobero, La Línea), one in Bolivia (if this is La Cumbre that Libertine mentions, although I thing the challenge is height, not steepness), one in Japan (Fuji).

@Libertine: Talking about Colombia, I thing there are more important and/or impressive climbs than some of those mentioned: Alto de Minas (from La Pintada), La China, El Limonar, El Crucero (similar to Letras). And, in this worldwide selection... There should be one or 2 climbs in Peru and Chile, that could be in a top selections
Last time in Medellin was in 2012 and I brought my mountain bike, planned on going back a few years ago with the road bike before we found out we were having our first kid, had a crazy thought about doing Letras. El Limonar looks absolutely brutal. I think there was another one similar a local guy was telling me about that's probably on that list or the Altimetrias site.
 
Gigs_98 said:
Do you really think all of these climbs are better than Alp d´Huez? I think if it would only be used once every ten years nobody would say this climb is bad.
Alpe d'Huez is clearly overrated, but so is Rettenbachferner in my opinion. The most difficult climb used regularly in cycling is Kitzbühler Horn if you ask me. Every year a absolute spectacle at Österreichrundfahrt. http://www.climbbybike.com/profile.asp?Climbprofile=Kitzb%FCheler-Horn&MountainID=1318

That said Alpe d'Huez would at best be the 3rd hardest climb at Österreichrundfahrt. :D
 
ppanther92 said:
Gigs_98 said:
Do you really think all of these climbs are better than Alp d´Huez? I think if it would only be used once every ten years nobody would say this climb is bad.
Alpe d'Huez is clearly overrated, but so is Rettenbachferner in my opinion. The most difficult climb used regularly in cycling is Kitzbühler Horn if you ask me. Every year a absolute spectacle at Österreichrundfahrt. http://www.climbbybike.com/profile.asp?Climbprofile=Kitzb%FCheler-Horn&MountainID=1318

That said Alpe d'Huez would at best be the 3rd hardest climb at Österreichrundfahrt. :D
IMO the Kitzbüheler Horn is definitely not the most difficult climb used in the last few years. Zoncolan or Angliru are longer but have almost the same steepness. Moreover the difficulty isn't the thing that makes a good climb, otherwise Libertine Seguros wouldn't write !!!FEDAIA!!! in every second reply ;)
 
Sep 8, 2009
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The only one who could be compared to rettenba hferner is zoncolan
Mortirolo,angliru and kitzbuheler all easier.
I'm talking about the average speeds by the pros on them and the duration of the effort
 
aarononymous said:
Last time in Medellin was in 2012 and I brought my mountain bike, planned on going back a few years ago with the road bike before we found out we were having our first kid, had a crazy thought about doing Letras. El Limonar looks absolutely brutal. I think there was another one similar a local guy was telling me about that's probably on that list or the Altimetrias site.
Medellin is a nice city for road cycling. The most accessible local hill (Palmas, on the way to the airport) has 4 ways about it, going from the traditional solid 1st Cat to the newer proper HC jaunt(Balsos, stating from the poshest part of town.) So many other proper climbs in the vicinity. Weather's great and it's high enough but not overwhelmingly so.

Anyway, Limonar like Solude seems like a hard hill to race on. It's not hard to see why the Vuelta a Colombia and the Tour haven't gone up them. Don't think just putting in better guardrails and a coat of asphalt would do the trick. But then again the same was said about Finestre, Angrilu, Zoncolan, Bola del Mundo, etc. So maybe someday?
 
Kitzbüheler Horn might compete with Angliru, Zoncolan and Rettenbachferner if they climbed all the way to the top in the Österreichrundfahrt, but they don't, they only climb the first 7,5km or so, to Alpenhaus. The Rettenbachferner is also at over 2600m altitude, which has to play into considerations. It's basically the Mortirolo at 800m higher altitude...
 
Oct 24, 2014
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Gigs_98 said:
Tour de Maurienne :eek:
It was so obvious that the ASO would make exactly the stage which is the easiest to create :(
Agreed, and sad as well, especially considering that they have option like below.
1. Add Col Du Mollard from Villargondran, descent the same way as the previous day and then keep the stage as it is. This is not particular creative but at least we would see something new with Mollard from a new side.
2. Go through the valley to Grand Goucheron continue to Col Du Barioz, then go via the Iseré valey and climb Charmrousse and descent via Col du Luzette and the proceed toward Alpe D´Huez.
There is a long false flat before the Alpe, so not sure if this is better than option 1.
3. The best would be get to Sechilienne as quick as possible, then do Col de la Morte/Alpe du Grand Serre and Ornon before the Alpe. This is unfortunately more than 250 Km when i measure it.

I could not figure out how to add pictures so therefore not profiles or maps :-(
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Now the next move from ASO should be this: after descending from Montvernier, hup hup hup on Mollard and then finish on Croix de Fer. 4 or they weren't there.
 
Re: Re:

Gigs_98 said:
BigMac said:
It's all about the highest bidder, have no illusions. The ASO is not naive to the point of not knowing how to do better, they simply have no interest in it.
I know that, but a race which is created by money not by creativity cannot be a good race anymore
True, but welcome to the Tour de France. The ASO doesn't have to bother with providing good profiles anymore, since they managed to build a certain fanbase around the Tour which goes beyond cycling fans: the Julyers who don't really care about a good race, they watch it because it is Le Tour. That fanbase is really all what ASO needs to keep the money coming from both sides, reaching their commercial goals and getting the most out of Towns' contributions.
 
Apr 16, 2011
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SeriousSam said:
They should just remove unnecessary climbs before Alpe so one of the Big4 can do a top 10 Alpe time.
It would be nice to see a flattish run through the valleys and Grenoble, followed by an insane climb.
 
Re: Re:

BigMac said:
Gigs_98 said:
BigMac said:
It's all about the highest bidder, have no illusions. The ASO is not naive to the point of not knowing how to do better, they simply have no interest in it.
I know that, but a race which is created by money not by creativity cannot be a good race anymore
True, but welcome to the Tour de France. The ASO doesn't have to bother with providing good profiles anymore, since they managed to build a certain fanbase around the Tour which goes beyond cycling fans: the Julyers who don't really care about a good race, they watch it because it is Le Tour. That fanbase is really all what ASO needs to keep the money coming from both sides, reaching their commercial goals and getting the most out of Towns' contributions.
Yep, you don't have to tell me that (unfortunately), I was one of these "Julyers" too, until 2011. However that doesn't change the fact that the routes the ASO designs are bull**** and yes complaining won't make it better but saying everything is fine is like lying to ourselves and thats something I really don't want to do.
 
Re: Re:

Gigs_98 said:
BigMac said:
Gigs_98 said:
BigMac said:
It's all about the highest bidder, have no illusions. The ASO is not naive to the point of not knowing how to do better, they simply have no interest in it.
I know that, but a race which is created by money not by creativity cannot be a good race anymore
True, but welcome to the Tour de France. The ASO doesn't have to bother with providing good profiles anymore, since they managed to build a certain fanbase around the Tour which goes beyond cycling fans: the Julyers who don't really care about a good race, they watch it because it is Le Tour. That fanbase is really all what ASO needs to keep the money coming from both sides, reaching their commercial goals and getting the most out of Towns' contributions.
Yep, you don't have to tell me that (unfortunately), I was one of these "Julyers" too, until 2011. However that doesn't change the fact that the routes the ASO designs are bull**** and yes complaining won't make it better but saying everything is fine is like lying to ourselves and thats something I really don't want to do.
Well completely agree with you. I think you misunderstood where I was coming from there, complain all the way. :) Plus, I think most of us were 'Julyers' at some point, we just took the next step.

Cheers.
 

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