Obree praises Voigt as a respectable rider

[the sceptic]

Yes, its absurd but this is cycling after all.

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/09/obree-on-the-hour-record-it-is-a-whole-phenomenon-rebooted/

“I think it is fabulous for a couple of reasons,” Obree told CyclingTips this week. “Firstly, it is good because it is a rejig of the current record, using a state of the art pursuit bike, and also because it would mean that Sosenka, the convicted drug cheat, doesn’t hold it any more.”

“So there is no way that Jens Voigt is not going to break the world record. He is going to set out a time that other folk can then in turn attack. He is a respectable rider and others will then take his record on.

“It gives a credibility in that other people will be able to attack a valid record set by a respected rider. It brings the record alive again.”

I thought Obree was supposed to be anti doping?

 

[SeriousSam]

Jens is probably tied with Horner for most consecutive doped years in the history of cycling.


Obree is embarrassing.

 

[hrotha]

I guess this goes to show that being a clean pro 20 years ago doesn't make you a particularly good judge of who is and isn't clean nowadays.

 

[HSNHSN]

Jens is probably tied with Horner for most consecutive doped years in the history of cycling.


Obree is embarrassing.

I'd expect there to be more cases, when looking somewhat further back. Voigt's total time as a professional cyclist, for instance, is as long as that of Zoetemelk and Ekimov is only off by one year as well.

More on topic: why shouldn't a former holder of the world hour record be positive about someone attempting to break it and thereby removing it from obscurity?

 

[MonkeyFace]

I used to like Voigt but got turned off over his "burn them at the stake" comment about riders suspended at the 2006 TDF. I don't know what to say. He is a keeper of the omerta and a terrible rep of the riders. Too, me all the other stuff is kind of small compared to this.

 

[Archibald]

I thought Obree was supposed to be anti doping?

probably is going by his comment on Sosenka, but what else would he say about Jens?

"yeah, this is rubbish. I'm sure Jens will be doped to the gills and make this a farce of an event.
And no, that's not sour grapes for him bettering what was my record that I did clean."

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

In a Belgian newspaper today, an overview was given of all record holders
Indurain was mentioned with a Merckx quote: "finally the record is held by a classy rider again"
I only read something about doping with Sosenka
The others must have been really clean then

 

[Digger]

I used to like Voigt but got turned off over his "burn them at the stake" comment about riders suspended at the 2006 TDF. I don't know what to say. He is a keeper of the omerta and a terrible rep of the riders. Too, me all the other stuff is kind of small compared to this.

hey I have been looking and struggling to find an quotes attributed to him about Puerto - if you have a link or anything I would like to see it thanks.

Jens is despicable.

 

[sniper]

yes, a respectable rider. never tested positive.
the worst dopers are those who test positive.

...
There are many elements that make up the negative image of doping

Dopers who test positive

it's why we should have much more contador threads and less threads about sky and respected guys like voigt.

and don't we have more urgent things to worry about anyway

 

[sniper]

the worst kind of dopers are those who test positive.

...
There are many elements that make up the negative image of doping

Dopers who test positive
Dopers who use advanced, risky programs (Transfusions)
Dopers who use banned doctors
Dopers who clog the courts with ridiculous defenses
Dopers who push absurd media campaigns to obfuscate their doping
Dopers who use political power to deflect from their doping and obstruct their sanctions

Contador has done all of these things, but because he is a nice guy and an exciting racer he gets a pass from many

 

[johnny7]

Everyone is talking like Jens already set the new record
I always found him a very nice and charismatic person with a lot of willpower and I just hope he never doped during any of his TdF appearances.

 

[Digger]

Everyone is talking like Jens already set the new record
I always found him a very nice and charismatic person with a lot of willpower and I just hope he never doped.

he doped...full stop

 

[Bronstein]

hey I have been looking and struggling to find an quotes attributed to him about Puerto - if you have a link or anything I would like to see it thanks.

Jens is despicable.

"Burn them on the stake!" - http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/doping-scandal-the-tour-de-farce-a-424862.html


Voigt in 2006 on Operation Puerto:

What might really help would be when we said: listen, on January 1, 2007, we're going to take a hair and blood sample from everyone. Every rider who has a license has to submit his genetic fingerprint. And these will be kept for 10 years -- and when there's a question, like with this Spanish affair, then a comparison will be made.

(http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/news/?id=/news/2006/jul06/jul18news2)


Voigt in 2013:

CN: So what did you make of the fact that the 1998 Tour samples were re-tested? What went through your mind then?

JV: I thought ‘what’s the point?’ because it just makes noise for nothing. It’s well beyond the legal time where it could have consequences. It just makes peoples’ lives difficult. You also have to ask how legal it is. I never knew they kept samples for that long. Where do they keep them, in a garage, in a safe cool area? Who opened them? Why didn’t they notify the riders that the B samples were being opened? I think it was almost pointless. Did you see any changes after that?

(http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/q-a...al-season-anti-doping-and-the-98-tour-samples)

 

[Benotti69]

Obree is wrong and I would've thought he had enough sense to not state anyone in the pro peloton is clean, especially when he has been so far removed from it for years.

 

[RownhamHill]

So obviously it stands to reason that Voigt was doping in 1998, and some time after that.

I'm less convinced the same reason still stands for his riding in recent years - which essentially consisted of doing a bit of dom work, and going in eye-catching breaks with no chance of success (which the peloton seemed happy to let him have - see stage 1 of this year's tour), and lapping up all the publicity (and financial rewards) of the particular 'shut up legs' niche he's carved out for himself. All of which would go away with a positive test.

That's obviously just speculation though, and if he did stop doping, I obviously don't know when. But I guess it begs a question as to if someone dopes (especially in an environment in which its endemic and not tested for) and then stops are they forever a despicable scumbag, or do they win back some respectability along the way? Obviously no right answer to that question, just your own judgement, but maybe Obree just has a different take on that question than some posters here?

 

[Digger]

"Burn them on the stake!" - http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/doping-scandal-the-tour-de-farce-a-424862.html


Voigt in 2006 on Operation Puerto:

(http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/news/?id=/news/2006/jul06/jul18news2)


Voigt in 2013:


(http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/q-a...al-season-anti-doping-and-the-98-tour-samples)

thank you very much for the Spiegel link

 

[blackcat]

yes, a respectable rider. never tested positive.
the worst dopers are those who test positive.

it's why we should have much more contador threads and less threads about sky and respected guys like voigt.

and don't we have more urgent things to worry about anyway

there was one year the saunier duval kit had merkins on them. Seems they got this around the wrong way. Brazilians or merkins?

 

[blackcat]

So obviously it stands to reason that Voigt was doping in 1998, and some time after that.

I'm less convinced the same reason still stands for his riding in recent years - which essentially consisted of doing a bit of dom work, and going in eye-catching breaks with no chance of success (which the peloton seemed happy to let him have - see stage 1 of this year's tour), and lapping up all the publicity (and financial rewards) of the particular 'shut up legs' niche he's carved out for himself. All of which would go away with a positive test.

That's obviously just speculation though, and if he did stop doping, I obviously don't know when. But I guess it begs a question as to if someone dopes (especially in an environment in which its endemic and not tested for) and then stops are they forever a despicable scumbag, or do they win back some respectability along the way? Obviously no right answer to that question, just your own judgement, but maybe Obree just has a different take on that question than some posters here?

he was burying his dope in 1998 with GAN when the gendarmes hit

 

[blackcat]

So obviously it stands to reason that Voigt was doping in 1998, and some time after that.

I'm less convinced the same reason still stands for his riding in recent years - which essentially consisted of doing a bit of dom work, and going in eye-catching breaks with no chance of success

no. every year he would dope up for Criterium International and won it about 4 times.

a 2 1/2 stage stage race. 2 stages, plus a 20km tt. One of the stages was selective.

Jens would win it every year. Only way you time your form to that degree where you can synchronize you watch like a military operation, is if you are tweaking your blood parameters.

 

[sniper]

"Burn them on the stake!" - http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/doping-scandal-the-tour-de-farce-a-424862.html


Voigt in 2006 on Operation Puerto:

(http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/news/?id=/news/2006/jul06/jul18news2)


Voigt in 2013:


(http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/q-a...al-season-anti-doping-and-the-98-tour-samples)

great post

 

[hrotha]

no. every year he would dope up for Criterium International and won it about 4 times.

a 2 1/2 stage stage race. 2 stages, plus a 20km tt. One of the stages was selective.

Jens would win it every year. Only way you time your form to that degree where you can synchronize you watch like a military operation, is if you are tweaking your blood parameters.

He also did very well at the Deutschland-Tour. Beat Leipheimer twice (2006-2007).

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Some riders are getting smarter, and ramping up their self-marketing. I think the 2 riders doing this particularly well are Jens Voigt with his shut up legs campaign, and Adam Hansen with his contiguous GT workhorse record.

It has echoes of the "too popular to fail" of the Armstrong era.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Some riders are getting smarter, and ramping up their self-marketing. I think the 2 riders doing this particularly well are Jens Voigt with his shut up legs campaign, and Adam Hansen with his contiguous GT workhorse record.

It has echoes of the "too popular to fail" of the Armstrong era.

That is the business though. As a businessman, a professional athlete has to sell personality. They spend time in the metaphorical office, building and crafting this personality on twitter, or milling around the mixed zone after races. Teams pay for good riders as much as they pay for publicity, not to mention the extra money that can be made from individual sponsorship, appearances, books, etc.

It just so happens that the successful operation within this business model reinforces successful businessmen, the root of all evil when discussing doping in sports.

EDIT: I think I explained my thoughts a little better in the RR sub-forum (in response to "So this is a 2-hour trek commercial":

The only way for a non-spectator-generating-revenue sport like cycling to make money is to be 2, or 3-hour commercials. Jens is a reckless rider (not in a good way), but he implicitly knows his real craft: selling his personality. He has been employed this long (or been incentive with lucrative enough contracts) because he is the best employee at his job: selling the brand name.

That's why I want nothing to do with this circus.

 

[RownhamHill]

no. every year he would dope up for Criterium International and won it about 4 times.

a 2 1/2 stage stage race. 2 stages, plus a 20km tt. One of the stages was selective.

Jens would win it every year. Only way you time your form to that degree where you can synchronize you watch like a military operation, is if you are tweaking your blood parameters.

As I say, it stands to reason that Jens used to dope. It also stands to less reason (though not impossible) that he's doping now or in recent years. So I guess the first question is whether winning a race five years ago counts as recent.

<shrugs>

To be honest though I'm not really interested in speculating as to when Jens stopped doping. The question I'm asking is if someone (ie Obree) makes a judgement that someone else (ie Voigt) can be forgiven for past indiscretions if they think they've changed, then is that wrong?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

That is the business though.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. The business for a sports person has been to win at their sport. This personality selling is conducted by very few, IMO, and those people that do it are standing out.

Jens is a nobody rider other than being ridiculously old, but if my FB newsfeed is any indication, he's loved by many. Good marketing. Lucky.