Obree praises Voigt as a respectable rider

[More Strides than Rides]

As I say, it stands to reason that Jens used to dope. It also stands to less reason (though not impossible) that he's doping now or in recent years. So I guess the first question is whether winning a race five years ago counts as recent.

<shrugs>

To be honest though I'm not really interested in speculating as to when Jens stopped doping. The question I'm asking is if someone (ie Obree) makes a judgement that someone else (ie Voigt) can be forgiven for past indiscretions if they think they've changed, then is that wrong?

As a thought experiment, who deserves the life time ban, a guy who gets popped too many times on low-octane drugs, or a guy who 10+ years doping but hasn't had anything the last 5? There is a lot of research about the long-term benefits of doping, even after going clean. Anecdotally, guys like Jens, Horner, 2009 Lance, Evans, Roriguez, or other guys pushing 35+ or runners like Geb, Lagat who do so well being so old, are only doing so well because they have been on the program for sooo long; it doens't matter if they're clean now. Their bodies didn't break down with time because they were rebuilt by dope. More than that, their decline is coming from such a higher peak, that their drop-off lands them right in the area of "level playing field" now.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

We're going to have to agree to disagree. The business for a sports person has been to win at their sport. This personality selling is conducted by very few, IMO, and those people that do it are standing out.

Jens is a nobody rider other than being ridiculously old, but if my FB newsfeed is any indication, he's loved by many. Good marketing. Lucky.

Fair enough. I'll just say it may be as valuable to do the right sporting thing (winning), as it is to be seen doing the right sporting thing (marketing).

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Fair enough. I'll just say it may be as valuable to do the right sporting thing (winning), as it is to be seen doing the right sporting thing (marketing).

I think the teams (ie via points accumulation) care about the former, and the UCI are keen on the latter (marketability, market penetration, sport [personality] popularity & growth).

 

[King Boonen]

The most successful (financially) sports people are the ones who are very good at their chosen sport or who are very good at marketing themselves. You see the same thing in many individual careers.

Eddie the Eagle, Matty Johns, Beau Ryan, Jens Voigt are some good examples.

 

[SeriousSam]

To be honest though I'm not really interested in speculating as to when Jens stopped doping. The question I'm asking is if someone (ie Obree) makes a judgement that someone else (ie Voigt) can be forgiven for past indiscretions if they think they've changed, then is that wrong?

That would be an extremely poor judgement, worthy of no less ridicule than his claims taken at face value.

 

[Benotti69]

We're going to have to agree to disagree. The business for a sports person has been to win at their sport. This personality selling is conducted by very few, IMO, and those people that do it are standing out.

Jens is a nobody rider other than being ridiculously old, but if my FB newsfeed is any indication, he's loved by many. Good marketing. Lucky.

I reckoned that Jens blood samples from 1998 were 'removed' as Jens testing positive would be too much for cycling.......

 

[MartinGT]

So tired of the love for the OmertaGod on Twitter and his hour attempt

 

[roundabout]

The most successful (financially) sports people are the ones who are very good at their chosen sport or who are very good at marketing themselves. You see the same thing in many individual careers.

Eddie the Eagle, Matty Johns, Beau Ryan, Jens Voigt are some good examples.

Is Voigt really *that* financially successful?

And FWIW during his doping peak at CSC he was arguably among the top-20 riders in the world, so mentioning him in the same sentence as Eddie the Eagle is a massive insult,

 

[sniper]

this guy dodged several bullets.
with a bit of luck the investigation into Riis might still bring up some evidence against Voigt.

 

[Benotti69]

this guy dodged several bullets.
with a bit of luck the investigation into Riis might still bring up some evidence against Voigt.

I really hope so.

 

[King Boonen]

Is Voigt really *that* financially successful?

And FWIW during his doping peak at CSC he was arguably among the top-20 riders in the world, so mentioning him in the same sentence as Eddie the Eagle is a massive insult,

It was more to make the point that marketing yourself well can be just as good as being one of the best and that both have a role to play.

I don't know if he is at the moment, but he has a ready-made career in the media when he retires that could be very lucrative, if he goes the clothing brand/bike brand way he'll probably do well off his name (he should join up with Hoogerland for that...) so taking that into account he certainly could be very successful.

 

[yespatterns]

I cannot wait for this guy to leave cycling. I don't suppose there is a petition....

 

[lostintime]

I can't wait for all you dopes to leave cycling