Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[MarkvW]

Frankie Andreu, a cycling promoter, tells us that cycling has changed for the better.

Hasn't cycling "turned a page?" Isn't this a "new generation?" Shouldn't the new generation be "given a chance?"

Please: Give professional cycling the chance to disappoint you one...more...time.

 

[thehog]

You know, Frankie's smarter than his hair makes him look:

"...this is a teachable moment for all of sport and life as well. We don't want to dwell on the past but we must not forget it because of the lesson it teaches. The USADA report made a big difference - a better difference not just for cycling but for all of sport."

I get the impression from this post that you wrote the article for him. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Race Radio]

Ahhh, the unhinged obsession continues as now even Frankie is painted as a doping apologist.

Comically absurd.

 

[DirtyWorks]

So young riders competing is indicative of what? Andy Schleck doped at 21.

One of the big things people used against lance at the start was his speeds - they were right - yet when others go as fast as lance - silence.


Leaks from pro's all saying the same thing - nothing has changed - it has simply morphed into even more secrecy and better doping techniques.

Except somethings have changed. We see very young riders with good results. We see, with exceptions, power is down and that third week in a grand tour isn't looking so pretty any more either. Those old enough to have followed the sport prior to EPO should recognize this.

Does that mean there's no doping on any given podium? Not at all. We also know the sport's administrators haven't changed a bit. You have a point and I agree with it. It's just not the whole picture.

 

[Digger]

Ahhh, the unhinged obsession continues as now even Frankie is painted as a doping apologist.

Comically absurd.

You are talking about other peoples' obsession. When 99.9% of your posts on here are lance related. Right down to topless pictures.


How you can firstly accuse others of obsession considering your own track record is funny though. Thanks for proving my point though.

 

[thehog]

Except somethings have changed. We see very young riders with good results. We see, with exceptions, power is down and that third week in a grand tour isn't looking so pretty any more either. Those old enough to have followed the sport prior to EPO should recognize this.

Does that mean there's no doping on any given podium? Not at all. We also know the sport's administrators haven't changed a bit. You have a point and I agree with it. It's just not the whole picture.

Frankie's point was that both "young" and "old" could compete without the fear of others doping.

I think Sky 2012-2014 (sans 2014 tour) proved that wrong for almost the entirity of three half seasons.

And who are these young riders claiming sucess?

With the sport changing for the better, the young athletes as well as the older athletes will be able to compete fairly. No longer will athletes have to line up knowing they are starting a mile behind the others despite standing on the start line together. We have seen younger cyclists competing at the top level and I believe a lot of their success is due to the sport being cleaner.

 

[Digger]

Except somethings have changed. We see very young riders with good results. We see, with exceptions, power is down and that third week in a grand tour isn't looking so pretty any more either. Those old enough to have followed the sport prior to EPO should recognize this.

Does that mean there's no doping on any given podium? Not at all. We also know the sport's administrators haven't changed a bit. You have a point and I agree with it. It's just not the whole picture.

Ammat's figures for top ten guys show this is absolutely not the case. Confirmed by ross tucker and veloclinic.

 

[Digger]

Also to further hogs point. Who are these young riders getting gc results in gt's who are supposedly clean

 

[the sceptic]

What exactly did the USADA report do for cycling other than bringing down Lance?

Cookson apologist, even though there is absolutely nothing that indicates he is any better than McQuaid.

Talking about hypothetical clean riders while ignoring all the EPO positives and mutant climbing the past 2 years.

Sorry, that interview was a bunch of horse****. I guess Frankie wants to be part of the new omerta with JV and friends.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Ammat's figures for top ten guys show this is absolutely not the case. Confirmed by ross tucker and veloclinic.

For the Vuelta, yes? If so, then you are right. What about the 2014 Giro? What about 3-10 at the 2014 TdF? The TdF was a special case with the UCI's favored dopers crashing out, but the Giro was clean-er.

This is cycling after all. I don't have some huge commitment things are cleaner on the WT. But, you can't just ignore some of the power numbers are down overall.

 

[Digger]

For the Vuelta, yes? If so, then you are right. What about the 2014 Giro? What about 3-10 at the 2014 TdF? The TdF was a special case with the UCI's favored dopers crashing out, but the Giro was clean-er.

This is cycling after all. I don't have some huge commitment things are cleaner on the WT. But, you can't just ignore some of the power numbers are down overall.

We have to go down the gc to see any decrease. So if that's progress!

No sane person thinks Quintana is clean. With the numbers he has put out. So that 2014 giro example is odd. Quintana is above what ross tucker said is a huge red light on the final week of a GT. So I again fail to see these so called clean gc riders. And again them being young means nothing. Andy doped as a neo pro.

 

[thehog]

This is cycling after all. I don't have some huge commitment things are cleaner on the WT. But, you can't just ignore some of the power numbers are down overall.

The assertion that "cycling is cleaner" is rarely backed up with data. Just words.

Power meters weren't for the most part in production enmasse during the so called EPO/dark eras. The point being, that there is a lack of qualified data across the board from that period.

I've not seen any report or finding that concludes power numbers are down. I've seen selective reasoning but nothing categorical.

 

[Race Radio]

Sorry, that interview was a bunch of horse****. I guess Frankie wants to be part of the new omerta with JV and friends.

You didn't read it did you?

 

[MacRoadie]

Why is this not gaining any traction here?

Lance Armstrong being sued, company wants $500,000 returned

The fallout from Lance Armstrong’s doping confession is far from over. On Tuesday, the Fireman’s Fund Insurance Company and IMA Financial Group filed a lawsuit in Travis County seeking to recover bonuses they paid to Armstrong.

Fireman's Fund ain't SCA Promotions. Whole different league.

 

[the sceptic]

You didn't read it did you?

Good for Frankie. Doping pays for him too.

I thought this was a very good job interview. The phone call from JV should be imminent.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Also to further hogs point. Who are these young riders getting gc results in gt's who are supposedly clean

Aru, Majka, Bouhanni, Pinot to name some. Are they cleans? No idea. But, they are very young with very, very good lower-ranked racing results. Something that was not prevalent so many years ago.

Maybe they do a Schleck later. Again, I'm not committed to the idea things are clean. This is cycling after all.

But, you can't ignore some things in competition are different.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Good for Frankie. Doping pays for him too.

I thought this was a very good job interview. The phone call from JV should be imminent.

I'm DirtyWorks and I approve this message.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Power meters weren't for the most part in production enmasse during the so called EPO/dark eras. The point being, that there is a lack of qualified data across the board from that period.

I've not seen any report or finding that concludes power numbers are down. I've seen selective reasoning but nothing categorical.

We have climbing times. That's mostly the athlete defeating gravity.

Even so, I agree with what you are saying. We need more data. Again, 2014 could be some kind of aberration and we're back to entertainment wrestling next year.

FWIW, I'm advocating two conflicting ideas at the same time. So, don't bother trying to get them to fit together.

 

[Digger]

Aru, Majka, Bouhanni, Pinot to name some. Are they cleans? No idea. But, they are very young with very, very good lower-ranked racing results. Something that was not prevalent so many years ago.

Maybe they do a Schleck later. Again, I'm not committed to the idea things are clean. This is cycling after all.

But, you can't ignore some things in competition are different.

You are actually proving my point - I mean take Aru, you honestly think he could be clean? Majka the same?

So they are young - but again it means not one difference.

 

[Digger]

We have climbing times. That's mostly the athlete defeating gravity.

Even so, I agree with what you are saying. We need more data. Again, 2014 could be some kind of aberration and we're back to entertainment wrestling next year.

FWIW, I'm advocating two conflicting ideas at the same time. So, don't bother trying to get them to fit together.

2014 was similar to 2013 which was similar to the known doping years - I mean jesus Frankie, was he in Mars last September 12 months? Horner was a real sign of progress.

 

[thehog]

We have climbing times. That's mostly the athlete defeating gravity.

Even so, I agree with what you are saying. We need more data. Again, 2014 could be some kind of aberration and we're back to entertainment wrestling next year.

FWIW, I'm advocating two conflicting ideas at the same time. So, don't bother trying to get them to fit together.

Agreed. I find it a fascinating discussion. But like politics often gets skewed with favourite rider/teams etc.

I'm really in favour of mandatory power meter and the submission of data across the board. Even if anonymously.

The UCIs bio passport database would be a wonderful data mining exercise and if cross referenced with power I'd think you could eliminate doping overnight.... if you wanted to.

Vaughters has Platypus which I'm impressed with (link to follow).

Here: http://tour.bicycling.com/tour-de-france/tour-features/oh-geekery

 

[DirtyWorks]

2014 was similar to 2013 which was similar to the known doping years - I mean jesus Frankie, was he in Mars last September 12 months? Horner was a real sign of progress.

Frankie wants a job in cycling. You can't fault him for making nice.

Add to your list of terrible things that Phil Gaimon is being busted down a level. If cycling wanted to clean up their act, guys like Phil would be pretty important to keep on the World Tour. Apparently, JV and the UCI don't think so.

 

[thehog]

Frankie wants a job in cycling. You can't fault him for making nice.

Add to your list of terrible things that Phil Gaimon is being busted down a level. If cycling wanted to clean up their act, guys like Phil would be pretty important to keep on the World Tour. Apparently, JV and the UCI don't think so.

To be honest, I'm not 100% those were his words. I suspect that it was written for him.

Happy to be proven wrong, I just don't see him forming opinions as such.

 

[Digger]

Here is Frankie defending froome - after AX3 Domaines...after he had pulverised everyone and pumped out 6.25w/kg.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/kimmage/day-12-of-paul-kimmages-tour-de-france-diary-29401411.html

At one stage he said the numbers weren't out of whack - yes Frankie they were.

 

[Digger]

Travis is amazing - as are USADA - love their consistency

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/athletics/29571601