Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[IndianCyclist]

Interesting piece about a possible Truth commission/whatever. Controversial viewpoint.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/06/commentary/commentary-lance-armstrong-can-fix-pro-cycling_289564

I think it completely blown up.
The correct way for LA to go would have been if he had participated in the USADA process. He lost that opportunity through his own decision. David Millar did not and now consequently he is where he is. Then came the media circus after the USADA decision where he was not repentant at all. Most importantly there are no personal apologies to the people he destroyed like David Walsh, Emma O'Reilly, Betsy Andreu, Greg Lemond etc. Even now he can volunteer information by himself. What's he waiting for? Floyd Landis volunteered information in the end. Only thing comes to mind is that he is waiting so that he can peddle that information for his maximum benefit. This is not the action of a upright person. Better to leave such persons out of cycling than to invite them to help. It will be like guarding the hen house with a fox. Beside which i think that it will be improvement in detections and police work that will improve the system and not confessions from dopers. No matter how much methods for doping are described, if the methods aren't good enough, no one will be caught.

 

[Kennf1]

[deleted due to other thread]

 

[caryopsis]

Braking Bad: Chasing Lance Armstrong and the Cancer of Corruption

Heads up about an e-book on Lance and the nature of corruption, to be published on June 11 - which is, in fact, a Tuesday.

Braking Bad, by Richard Poplak

Just an update, this e-book was released yesterday, available on all the major e-book platforms. I just bought it for a few bucks (~$3 CAD), hope to read it over the weekend.

Disclaimer from the publisher's page: "This book is not a definitive account of the Lance Armstrong era. It does not divulge any new information on his many years as a doper and cyclist. Rather, Braking Bad is an incisive, eloquent, and thought-provoking meditation on the most human of foibles, corruption, and how it preys so auspiciously on the most human of virtues, idealism and hope."

 

[horsinabout]

Just an update, this e-book was released yesterday, available on all the major e-book platforms. I just bought it for a few bucks (~$3 CAD), hope to read it over the weekend.

Disclaimer from the publisher's page: "This book is not a definitive account of the Lance Armstrong era. It does not divulge any new information on his many years as a doper and cyclist. Rather, Braking Bad is an incisive, eloquent, and thought-provoking meditation on the most human of foibles, corruption, and how it preys so auspiciously on the most human of virtues, idealism and hope."

Yes quite..

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

http://t.co/yoEwevFKZI

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com/preview/2009/04/11/pagina-28/4523745/pdf.html#&mode=fullScreen

Old article but still important, it proves the French were on top of the controls to catch the wonderman. How many times did these things occur? And why did the UCI not address this as a missed test? It wasnt registered in the PR campaign listings:
http://cdn-community2.livestrong.co...c981f7be-e46c-4245-aa9d-d61ae110a264.Full.jpg

There was a very nice documentary on French TV yesterday, I hope it will be at Youtube soon.

edit:
this was the one
http://television.telerama.fr/telev...tion-retour-sur-l-affaire-armstrong,98907.php

 

[frenchfry]

There was a very nice documentary on French TV yesterday, I hope it will be at Youtube soon.

edit:
this was the one
http://television.telerama.fr/telev...tion-retour-sur-l-affaire-armstrong,98907.php

Excellent documentary. Not really any new information, but I thought they did an excellent job of capturing the mood of how Armstrong and his paid thugs operated and how they exercised a reign of terror. It also takes a serious look at the complicity of Verbruggen, the UCI, ASO, Trek, Nike, Sarkozy and others. It is especially critical of Verdruggen, who was incredibly agressive and arrogant in his actions.

I don't know how I missed this last night, must have been too caught up in Grey's Anatomy. Here is a link to a video version:

http://www.france3.fr/emissions/pieces-a-conviction

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Excellent documentary. Not really any new information, but I thought they did an excellent job of capturing the mood of how Armstrong and his paid thugs operated and how they exercised a reign of terror. It also takes a serious look at the complicity of Verbruggen, the UCI, ASO, Trek, Nike, Sarkozy and others. It is especially critical of Verdruggen, who was incredibly agressive and arrogant in his actions.

I don't know how I missed this last night, must have been too caught up in Grey's Anatomy. Here is a link to a video version:

http://www.france3.fr/emissions/pieces-a-conviction

Unfortunately, that link is geo restricted.
It was very excellent, and they had an amazing cast of characters interviewed - but my French was not sufficient for some parts.
What was it they had on ASO? Jean Marie Leblanc sounded wonderfully angry and Prudhomme nearly squirmed his way off the chair.

Best part was Hein answering the door in sweat pants.

 

[frenchfry]

Unfortunately, that link is geo restricted.
It was very excellent, and they had an amazing cast of characters interviewed - but my French was not sufficient for some parts.
What was it they had on ASO? Jean Marie Leblanc sounded wonderfully angry and Prudhomme nearly squirmed his way off the chair.

Best part was Hein answering the door in sweat pants.

The part with ASO/Leblanc involved a hotel in Gérardmer (Vosges) where Cofidis and Liquigas stayed during the 2005 TDF. After the teams left, the hotel drains were plugged. When they unplugged the drains they found 2 rags, one with 2 syringes inside. The owner of the hotel contacted ASO (he forgets who he talked to), and according to Eric Boyer (manager of Cofidis) the next day Leblanc summoned the managers of the 2 teams and told them that syringes were found in the hotel and to not let this happen again. Boyer says that this minor slap on the wrist was less than impressive. Leblanc says it wasn't his business to know what was in the syringes and then resorts to the excuse that as long as he doesn't know what is in the syringes he is powerless to take any action. A further interview with an uncomfortable Prudhomme turns into a diversional marketing speech. Nobody ever came to collect the syringes.

Interesting side note, when the reporter doesn't use the correct prononciation of Gérardmer, Prudhomme sharply corrects him by "in French we pronounce it ...." even though the reporter is French.

 

[thehog]

At these prices they won't last!

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

At these prices they won't last!

The endless supply of awesome steadily flows....

 

[DirtyWorks]

The endless supply of awesome steadily flows....

Two things:

1. It's the retailer making room for the stuff coming in for Q4. Lots of exercise equipment sold during the holidays.

2. It will be interesting to see if the retailer and Johnson are dropping the logo for 2013/14. Make no mistake, the retailer's buyer knows exactly how the controversy has impacted his segment. It might not have done anything bad. Really. Remember this is a different, very indifferent, consumer segment.

My genuine hope is sales are down, down, down like they appeared to be at Nike.

 

[thehog]

Two things:

1. It's the retailer making room for the stuff coming in for Q4. Lots of exercise equipment sold during the holidays.

2. It will be interesting to see if the retailer and Johnson are dropping the logo for 2013/14. Make no mistake, the retailer's buyer knows exactly how the controversy has impacted his segment. It might not have done anything good or bad. Really. Remember this is a different, very indifferent, consumer segment.

My genuine hope is sales are down, down, down like they appeared to be at Nike.

It's being dropped.

http://consumerist.com/2013/06/12/d...ing-out-all-livestrong-items-for-some-reason/

Indeed, the association with Armstrong and aisles full of branded fitness equipment really hurt sales at ***’s earlier this year. “People had a very negative reaction to the Livestrong brand,” the CEO told business analysts on a conference call.

 

[DirtyWorks]

It's being dropped.

http://consumerist.com/2013/06/12/d...ing-out-all-livestrong-items-for-some-reason/

Equipment branded Livestrong, the charity Armstrong founded, makes up more than 50 percent of its treadmill and elliptical sales. After Armstrong’s admission, demand fell and it’s now clearing inventory with price reductions and has plans replace it with another brand, the company said.

I should probably post the earnings report link in the Liestrong thread. Notice how no one knows where the for-profit and non-profit orgs begin or end.

Liestrong was making them some cash. That's for sure. Glad to see it end so badly.

 

[Fatclimber]

All Good News!!!

Now's my chance to get one of those sweet recumbent bikes. People really paid $2500 for those elliptical trainers? Wow, money to burn.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Now's my chance to get one of those sweet recumbent bikes. People really paid $2500 for those elliptical trainers? Wow, money to burn.

Erm, it's for a good cause.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Two things:

1. It's the retailer making room for the stuff coming in for Q4. Lots of exercise equipment sold during the holidays.

2. It will be interesting to see if the retailer and Johnson are dropping the logo for 2013/14. Make no mistake, the retailer's buyer knows exactly how the controversy has impacted his segment. It might not have done anything bad. Really. Remember this is a different, very indifferent, consumer segment.

My genuine hope is sales are down, down, down like they appeared to be at Nike.

The retailers got on the bandwagon when it made sense and were largely unaware of what was coming.

Then it came, and they thought it would blow over....but it didn't, when his post USADA behaviour disclosed to the world what a relatively small number already knew.

His name attached to any product is now a considerable liability....

 

[D-Queued]

Now's my chance to get one of those sweet recumbent bikes. People really paid $2500 for those elliptical trainers? Wow, money to burn.

Money =/= intelligence.

Certain past members of this forum likely have the entire collection of Liestrong licensed merchandise. Possibly in duplicate or triplicate.

Dave.

 

[Granville57]

Certain past members of this forum likely have the entire collection of Liestrong licensed merchandise. Possibly in duplicate or triplicate.

Dave, you promised not to tell!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TREK-MADONE-LANCE-ARMSTRONG-LIMITED-EDITION-COLLECTION-TOUR-DE-FRANCE-LIVESTRONG-/130919169442?pt=US_Bicycles_Frames&hash=item1e7b63fda2

THE COMPLETE LIMITED EDITION TREK MADONE'S. ALL THREE BIKES WERE TO RECOGNIZE A YEAR OF LANCES WINS
$30,000.00

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-dExcU0fMU

Misses 8 minutes but still nice.

 

[D-Queued]

Dave, you promised not to tell!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TREK-MADONE-LANCE-ARMSTRONG-LIMITED-EDITION-COLLECTION-TOUR-DE-FRANCE-LIVESTRONG-/130919169442?pt=US_Bicycles_Frames&hash=item1e7b63fda2

Eek!

Dave.

 

[BroDeal]

Dave, you promised not to tell!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TREK-MADONE-LANCE-ARMSTRONG-LIMITED-EDITION-COLLECTION-TOUR-DE-FRANCE-LIVESTRONG-/130919169442?pt=US_Bicycles_Frames&hash=item1e7b63fda2

Whoa! Check out the spacers on that gold pimp edition Trek.

 

[hiero2]

A century after his death in 1902, we don’t remember Cecil Rhodes for this unrepentant racism, his vicious use of the white man’s burden as justification for appropriating vast chunks of Africa (yes, Rhodesia), or the sleazy business betrayals he used to corner the diamond market with his De Beers empire. We think of Rhodes Scholars, those world-changing students who benefit from his legacy of full rides to Oxford University.

Likewise, most don’t picture John D. Rockefeller as the ruthless Standard Oil robber baron who monopolized energy markets. Nor do we think of Rockefeller the vicious union-buster behind 1914’s Ludlow Massacre, when he hired militia to machine-gun striking miners, wives, and children in Colorado. Instead, we know the man reincarnated by the legacy of the Rockefeller foundations, which set the standard for industrial-scale philanthropy and have improved the lives of millions through largesse to medicine and education.

Speak for yourself Mark Johnson. I find it sad if that isn't the way you see those men. People who read real history, instead of the watered down, whitewashed version offered in most schools, know very well what those men did.

Merckx, I find this annoying. Not because you find these men heinous, no. But rather because, in spite of the fact that Johnson quite even-handedly noted, with some color, and not dismissively, the bad side of these men. As a matter of fact, I would say that my impression was that Johnson does NOT approve of these men - or their actions.

Men (and women) who are just as heinous exist today. I think we will always have them. In the US, I think there are many who are responsible for our current economic condition that should be in jail. People whom I believe fit the mold of the selfish, greedy types Johnson mentioned. I think far greater sanctions should have been taken against Rhodes, Rockefeller, and more than a few others, in their own time - but we can not change history.

What Johnson is pointing out, you might call a "realpolitik" view - this is reality. This is what really happens. The big fish die, or go away, and people forget their sins, and remember the riches, the glitter, or the give-away money. It doesn't change that these were people who took actions we would consider evil if we managed to put them on trial today.

Insofar as that goes, to some extent I think Johnson makes sense. Armstrong is very much like Michael Jackson, Paris Hilton, and Amanda Byrnes. People, who for some reason of coincidence of personality, looks, timing, and talent, manage to catch, and hold, the public eye. For some reason, people like that have an outsized impact on the rest of us.

In spite of the fact that I think Armstrong is a detestable person, of low moral character, I don't think that reduces the fact that he has had more impact on the sport of bicycle racing than Verbruggen or McQuaid have in their wildest wet dreams. And could continue to have.

It isn't that he is alone - he isn't, and we know it. But, he is unique, in that, detestable or no, he can still command more ears to hear him than any tv race announcer. What he says will get repeated far outside the normal circles of bicycle racing. Even, as we know, by some of those tv race announcers.

 

[thehog]

Now I know why Armstrong hated LeMond so much.

He never had his own song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgKfNFBUyK0&sns=em

 

[blackcat]

Merckx, I find this annoying. Not because you find these men heinous, no. But rather because, in spite of the fact that Johnson quite even-handedly noted, with some color, and not dismissively, the bad side of these men. As a matter of fact, I would say that my impression was that Johnson does NOT approve of these men - or their actions.

Men (and women) who are just as heinous exist today. I think we will always have them. In the US, I think there are many who are responsible for our current economic condition that should be in jail. People whom I believe fit the mold of the selfish, greedy types Johnson mentioned. I think far greater sanctions should have been taken against Rhodes, Rockefeller, and more than a few others, in their own time - but we can not change history.

What Johnson is pointing out, you might call a "realpolitik" view - this is reality. This is what really happens. The big fish die, or go away, and people forget their sins, and remember the riches, the glitter, or the give-away money. It doesn't change that these were people who took actions we would consider evil if we managed to put them on trial today.

Insofar as that goes, to some extent I think Johnson makes sense. Armstrong is very much like Michael Jackson, Paris Hilton, and Amanda Byrnes. People, who for some reason of coincidence of personality, looks, timing, and talent, manage to catch, and hold, the public eye. For some reason, people like that have an outsized impact on the rest of us.

In spite of the fact that I think Armstrong is a detestable person, of low moral character, I don't think that reduces the fact that he has had more impact on the sport of bicycle racing than Verbruggen or McQuaid have in their wildest wet dreams. And could continue to have.

It isn't that he is alone - he isn't, and we know it. But, he is unique, in that, detestable or no, he can still command more ears to hear him than any tv race announcer. What he says will get repeated far outside the normal circles of bicycle racing. Even, as we know, by some of those tv race announcers.

those wildest wet dreams sound run Hiero. I want one.

please.