Official thread: Giro d'Italia

[Alpe d'Huez]

...I think Simoni, Cunego and DiLuca were just lucky they weren't riding against a Pantani, Armstrong or Basso at their top at the Giros they won...Basso is a real talent and he will be as strong, or nearly so, as 2006.

Agree on all you said, except I truly do believe Simoni was an outstanding climber and a great champion. He could have won five Giros had the cards fallen a little more into place. I like Cunego and Diluca, but they (and Il Falco) won a little more by chance and key strategy than anything.

Yes, doping or "intended to dope", Basso really did show great talent. I just am not completely sure how well he'll do over the full three weeks, but I really do think he'll podium here unless he has another day like the Stelvio in 2005. If he sails to victory, it's going to make us all quickly assess his chances in the 2010 Tour.

Great analogy MellowVelo on central Italy.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

No McEwen in the Giro

 

[rhubroma]

Agree on all you said, except I truly do believe Simoni was an outstanding climber and a great champion. He could have won five Giros had the cards fallen a little more into place. I like Cunego and Diluca, but they (and Il Falco) won a little more by chance and key strategy than anything.

Yes, doping or "intended to dope", Basso really did show great talent. I just am not completely sure how well he'll do over the full three weeks, but I really do think he'll podium here unless he has another day like the Stelvio in 2005. If he sails to victory, it's going to make us all quickly assess his chances in the 2010 Tour.

Great analogy MellowVelo on central Italy.

No doubt Simoni has been a great climber, less so as a champion (having failed misserably at the Tour and, again, having won the Giro only in the absence of a Super Champion like those I just mentioned. Then there is his personality, which has shown to be less than agreeable at times. He's envious of better riders and can be mean. For example, Simoni refused to shake Basso's hand at this year's Giro presentation when Ivan extended his as a peace gesture because he is still ****ed-of over the 2006 Gireo stage when Basso dropped him supposedely after an "agreement." What ever the reason, Simoni is a jealous little whiner who simple can't accept others being better than him.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Have to go with Alpe and disagree on Simoni.
Just because he concentrated his efforts at the Giro and didn't go well against Lance at the tour, doesn't make him a weak champion.
But for one dose of the bonk, last year, he would have podiumed for the 8th time and were it not for getting pulled out of the 2002 edition, only to have the decision reversed, would probably have taken 3 in succession.

Totally dominated both the 2001 and 2003 editions.

Will feature again, this year.

IMO: Could easily have won 5 titles. No one comes close to his record in recent years.

 

[rhubroma]

Have to go with Alpe and disagree on Simoni.
Just because he concentrated his efforts at the Giro and didn't go well against Lance at the tour, doesn't make him a weak champion.
But for one dose of the bonk, last year, he would have podiumed for the 8th time and were it not for getting pulled out of the 2002 edition, only to have the decision reversed, would probably have taken 3 in succession.

Totally dominated both the 2001 and 2003 editions.

Will feature again, this year.

IMO: Could easily have won 5 titles. No one comes close to his record in recent years.

Don't disagree that was not a classy rider (anyone who wins the Giro can't be considered unclassy), but if you look at the years he won it and the competition he faced, I'm just saying the merits need to be placed in proper proportion and light or dimenstion.

What I said was, had he been up against a better champion at their best (and I think it's indesputable that Armstrong, Basso, the same Pantani, even Ullrich), he perhaps (probably) would not have won. This isn't his fault of course, if anything more "blame" needs to be put on the direction the Pro callendar had taken in the 90's, which, as I put forth in another feed, tended to marginalize the Giro - and that this lowered the quality of the field. At the same time, consequently, with a weak field Simoni's achievments were somewhat hyperbolized. In fact we saw his limits at the Tour and, with the arrival of Basso (a racer with simply better qualities), he could no longer dominate in his national race. And let's not forget that he was also beaten by Savoldeli a good rider (relative to the pros mind you), but not a great champion. Then there is the role Armstrong played focussing as he did exclusively on the Tour. He thus never road the Giro, while his main competitors, even Basso for a while, avoided it too, while the likes of Ullrich used it mearly as a training ride. Had these riders been at the Giro to win it in the golden years of Simoni's career, I doubt that they'd have been so golden.

 

[lucybears]

free, though have to register

Anyone know of a decent fantasy Giro comps?

http://giro.cyclingfever.com/

 

[Jasper]

Anyone know of a decent fantasy Giro comps?

http://www.wielerprono.be

 

[Mellow Velo]

Just caught up with yesterday's Toscana giro and was very impressed with him climbing a la the 2007 Tour and putting the hurt into the whole peloton.
Looking good to frighten the favourites on the big climbs I thought; maybe even a podium possible.

What happen next, isn't in that report.

Unfortunately, he then did his usual trick of putting the hurt into himself.
Clipped a curb on a tight left-hander and came down heavily. Hung onto the back of the peloton for the remainder of the race, carrying a left knee that looked pretty banged up.

 

[Bala Verde]

RAB will start with these folks

Bram de Groot, Pieter Weening, Jos van Emden, Tom Stamsnijder, Pedro Horrillo, Mauricio Ardila, Dmitri Kozontsjoek, Menchov and Laurens Ten Dam.


Their intention is a stage win, which they never accomplished in the Giro, and a good GC for Menchov...

 

[Jasper]

No Brown, yet another sprinter less. This is getting ridiculous...

 

[jaylew]

Anyone know of a decent fantasy Giro comps?

http://fantasy.cycling-games.com/game/home.htm
http://probikepool.com/

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Quickstep:
Dario Cataldo (Ita)
Allan Davis (Aus)
Dries Devenyns (Bel)
Addy Engels (Ned)
Mauro Facci (Ita)
Kevin Hulsmans (Bel)
David Malacarne (Ita)
Francesco Reda (Ita)
Kevin Seeldraeyers (Bel)

Average age: 26!

Cataldo or Seeldraeyers for Maglia Bianca?

 

[Bala Verde]

Adri van Houwelingen hinted at the possibility that Menchov might indeed not ride the Giro in preparation to the TdF.

The exact words used were, 'Denis knows the TdF is going to be difficult with a top contender like AC. Hence, the Giro is much more of a goal this year'.

'This year's TdF has one helluva contender, AC, who will be difficult to beat. Denis is fully aware of that. He is extremely motivated for the Giro. This is exemplified by his preparation for the Giro: he did a specifically reconned the 62km TT. We think that stage will be crucial to winning this year's Giro'.

So it seems that RAB is realistic in its prospects for a TdF win/podium spot, and are trying to cosolidate a 'surprise' win in the centenary Giro. Ten Dam is said to have some leeway, either to go for a stage win, or to aim for a good GC.

I don't know if the team is strong enough though to support Menchov and take the victory.

Would all of this also imply that RAB's TdF strategy will shift, to focus on some stage wins with Freire, Menchov and Gesink, perhaps including 2 top 10 GC placements? Their intention for the year 2009 was to show greater visibility and ride more aggressively instead of riding around 'namelessly' and arrive in the 'pack' to only secure/defend a GC spot. I do wish they would go back to the tactics they used in the glory days of Dekker (2000, with 3 stage wins in the TdF)

 

[Zoncolan]

Adri van Houwelingen hinted at the possibility that Menchov might indeed not ride the Giro in preparation to the TdF.

The exact words used were, 'Denis knows the TdF is going to be difficult with a top contender like AC. Hence, the Giro is much more of a goal this year'.

'This year's TdF has one helluva contender, AC, who will be difficult to beat. Denis is fully aware of that. He is extremely motivated for the Giro. This is exemplified by his preparation for the Giro: he did a specifically reconned the 62km TT. We think that stage will be crucial to winning this year's Giro'.

So it seems that RAB is realistic in its prospects for a TdF win/podium spot, and are trying to cosolidate a 'surprise' win in the centenary Giro. Ten Dam is said to have some leeway, either to go for a stage win, or to aim for a good GC.

I don't know if the team is strong enough though to support Menchov and take the victory.

Would all of this also imply that RAB's TdF strategy will shift, to focus on some stage wins with Freire, Menchov and Gesink, perhaps including 2 top 10 GC placements? Their intention for the year 2009 was to show greater visibility and ride more aggressively instead of riding around 'namelessly' and arrive in the 'pack' to only secure/defend a GC spot. I do wish they would go back to the tactics they used in the glory days of Dekker (2000, with 3 stage wins in the TdF)

Well, he sure is good enough and on good form. I had him down for a podium place anyway, but if he really is at 100% and goes for it, he just might win it.
Has more class than LL in any case.
As for the TdF, Gesink and Menchov sure look like a good bet for Top 10, but I think Gesink will be on domestique duty and might get a chance to go for a stage win rather than the overall.
Also, the Russian is selling himself short. So what if Contador races in France, it's not a foregone conclusion that he'll win it.

 

[BikeCentric]

Also, the Russian is selling himself short. So what if Contador races in France, it's not a foregone conclusion that he'll win it.

I agree, Menchov is quite capable of winning any of the Grand Tours. I particularly enjoy how deeply Menchov digs on the climbs; he really knows how to suffer. Sometimes he'll get dropped by the lead group and then claw his way back, always cool to watch.

 

[Bala Verde]

Well, he sure is good enough and on good form. I had him down for a podium place anyway, but if he really is at 100% and goes for it, he just might win it.
Has more class than LL in any case.
As for the TdF, Gesink and Menchov sure look like a good bet for Top 10, but I think Gesink will be on domestique duty and might get a chance to go for a stage win rather than the overall.
Also, the Russian is selling himself short. So what if Contador races in France, it's not a foregone conclusion that he'll win it.

I like Menchov too, especially because he (as mentioned below) always seems to give it 110% on the climbs and off the bike he is a modest, almost too humble guy. Sometimes I think he lacks some confidence, for whatever reason.

Well, if it is true that he wants give it a go at the Giro, it could be quite spectacular.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I completely agree with you guys. Like in my previous long post, I think the fireworks between Basso, Lance, Levi, Cunego, DiLuca, Simoni is going to give a great shot for Menchov and Sastre to pick some spots; and both guys are considered to be tactically smart riders.

I do wish they would go back to the tactics they used in the glory days of Dekker (2000, with 3 stage wins in the TdF)

Don't forget Michael Boogard and his heroic riding through the years. Completely agree with you though.

 

[bvfrompc]

has everyone forgotten about VdV or are the garmin team not strong enough to support him..?

What about this guy for Garmin, not bad company in that Top 10.


24th Vuelta a Castilla y León
Final General classification

1 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Astana 15.33.26
2 Alberto Contador (Spa) Astana 0.16
3 David Zabriskie (USA) Garmin-Slipstream 0.22
4 Stef Clement (Ned) Rabobank 0.49
5 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 1.07
6 Xavier Tondo (Spa) Andalucía-Cajasur 1.51
7 Philip Deignan (Irl) Cervélo TestTeam 1.53
8 Ezequiel Mosquera (Spa) Xacobeo Galicia 2.01
9 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 2.05
10 Juan José Cobo (Spa) Fuji-Servetto 2.45

What has he been doing since then, training......

 

[Jasper]

Only if he's the final rider in Garmin's roster. So far they've announced 8 out of 9, how likely is Zabrisikie to be the last one?

If he is, they must have the one of the best TTT lineups ever: Millar, Zabriskie, Tuft and Wiggins, how many national/world/olympic medals do they represent?

 

[gingerwallaceafro]

I'd go with that. In GC's it's generally the same old hands and the Astana v Italy thing could work out just fine for Menchov and Sastre amongst others.

1.Menchov
2.Leipheimer
3.Basso
4.Sastre
5.DiLuca
6.VDV
7.Arroyo
8.Bruseghin
9.Jo Rodriguez
10.Armstrong

 

[Jasper]

No Cunego or Pellizotti in there?

 

[gingerwallaceafro]

Sorry mate, I don't rate Cunego I don't fancy Pelizotti when it comes down to it either...

 

[bvfrompc]

Only if he's the final rider in Garmin's roster. So far they've announced 8 out of 9, how likely is Zabrisikie to be the last one?

If he is, they must have the one of the best TTT lineups ever: Millar, Zabriskie, Tuft and Wiggins, how many national/world/olympic medals do they represent?

Well, I guess that blows that idea out of the water.

I wonder what the story is? Z had a solid spring at TOC and that Spanish race. Saving it up for the Tour?

I truly thought they would be going for the TTT and the Pink Jersey again.

 

[beestrong]

you all got wrong

BASSO WILL WIN IF ACCIDENTS ARE AVOIDED,

armstrong is strong but not as before,

cunego have not found back to the form he had when he won it,

sastre just won tour08 because the big guns where absent, not that he was not worthy

di luca is a sure outsider, but beat Basso- NO

if Schleck and Gerdemann are riding maybe they can reach top 3

a think either Basso or some young gun !!

 

[Escarabajo]

Gerdemann??? You must be his family.

A lot of people are favoring Basso, but I am sorry to disappoint all of you but the third week is going to prove too much for him. Two years without competitive racing is too much. Let's not talk about that guy that has been off for 4 years and now wants to beat Contador in the Tour. What is he drinking now?

As a said before, this Giro is too technical and I'll keep my choice of Cunego and Menchov. As for the others:

Simoni: Too old
Di Luca: Too Old. Already peaked. Have not seen too much of his form.
Sastre: out of Form. Especially in this Giro that you need to have a good form right away. You can not ride into form like in the Tour.
VdV: Focused on Tour.
Zabriskie: I'll pick him for the Time Trial. If he rides.
Leipheimer: Needs more personality to win a Grand Tour. But He'll make the Podium.
Pellizotti: Dark Horse, maybe White Horse.
Soler: I just hope he keeps himself upright. He just falls too much. Too much time trialing for him.

Thanks, just giving my opinion.