Olympians warned: DonÂ’t eat liver

[krebs303]

Olympians warned: Don’t eat liver

Olympians warned: Don’t eat liver

With the London Olympics quickly approaching, the United Kingdom Anti-Doping Association warned athletes to avoid foods that will make an athlete test positive on a drug screening. The top of that list? Liver, which can increase the risk of an athlete testing positive for anabolic agent clenbuterol.

The Food Standard Agency, a British government agency similar to the Food and Drug Administration in the U.S., advised athletes against eating liver.

The FSA cannot rule out the possibility that if a large portion of liver is consumed containing clenbuterol at permitted residue limits, urine collected shortly after consumption may contain detectable levels of clenbuterol. This depends on many factors including the amount consumed, the timing of the urine test and the analytical methods used.

Food has played a part in positive drug tests in the past. Tong Wen, an Olympic gold medalist weightlifter from China, blamed pork chops when she tested positive for clenbuterol. Spanish cyclist Alberto Contado also tested positive for clenbuterol, and blamed a steak.

 

[maltiv]

I heard Contador just remembered that he ate an absolutely enormous liver during the 2nd rest day at the TDF last year.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I heard Contador just remembered that he ate an absolutely enormous liver during the 2nd rest day at the TDF last year.

With some fava beans and a nice Chianti.

 

[Fatclimber]

eating liver also causes asthma

 

[Anonymous]

With some fava beans and a nice Chianti.

Classic.

 

[python]

good light humour above is a welcome relief...but let's look at the essence of what the olympic drug tzars are saying:

don't eat a meat product LEGALLY contaminated with clen! NOT in mexico, not in china but in (or just prior to) london games.

if an athlete eats liver in london and tests positive, he will be charged with doping even if he could not recognize liver in some meat product containing chopped or processed liver. imo this approaches absurdity.

 

[Cloxxki]

good light humour above is a welcome relief...but let's look at the essence of what the olympic drug tzars are saying:

don't eat a meat product LEGALLY contaminated with clen! NOT in mexico, not in china but in (or just prior to) london games.

if an athlete eats liver in london and tests positive, he will be charged with doping even if he could not recognize liver in some meat product containing chopped or processed liver. imo this approaches absurdity.

You mean "There will be no excuses for testing positive caused by consumption of supposedly contaminated meat, or even liver. Know what you eat, it's your responsibility to stay clean, not your diner's."

Will these be the veggiest games ever?

 

[python]

Know what you eat, it's your responsibility to stay clean, not your diner's."

i wonder how can you know what you ate if a sausage or another non-liver looking meat product contained legal clenbuterol and you don't have access to a high tech lab?

take the restaurant's owner word ? what if he lied to cut corners ? what if he/she did not know that a supplier schemed him to cut corners ? have corruption and greed been eradicated ?

it seems you expect of others more than you are willing to put yourself through. it will probably take for you personally to become a victim of others to develop a more realistic perspective.


why to have any legal allowance for clen and warn athletes if it's strictly illegal in the eu?

as to your connection of clen to anabolic steroids, it's clear you're poorly informed despite residing in the clinic.

and another consideration is that the Olympics are open not only to rich teams and athletes who can bring own cooks and supplies. In fact, most athletes come from poor regions that can't afford the luxury.

 

[Cloxxki]

i wonder how can you know what you ate if a sausage or another non-liver looking meat product contained legal clenbuterol and you don't have access to a high tech lab?

take the restaurant's owner word ? what if he lied to cut corners ? what if he/she did not know that a supplier schemed him to cut corners ? have corruption and greed been eradicated ?

it seems you expect of others more than you are willing to put yourself through. it will probably take for you personally to become a victim of others to develop a more realistic perspective.


why to have any legal allowance for clen and warn athletes if it's strictly illegal in the eu?

as to your connection of clen to anabolic steroids, it's clear you're poorly informed despite residing in the clinic.

and another consideration is that the Olympics are open not only to rich teams and athletes who can bring own cooks and supplies. In fact, most athletes come from poor regions that can't afford the luxury.

I think your read more, or missed more, in my post than there respectively was or wasn't.

If I were an aspiring Olympian, I would think seriously about my nutricional plans there, already now.
If meat consumption is so often brought forward by defenses as reason for positives, how big of a commitment is it for the athlete to find a way to prepare without meat? If you must have meat to compete at your peak level, you better make it part of your game plan. And do it better than Contador, with his personal specially-imported steak which supposedly was the one bad steak in the whole Tour.
I'm a great meat lover myself, but considering the level some vegetarians reach, it might not be a bad idea to follow a non-meat lifestyle for the month or longer before the Games. It seems to take away a huge percentage of the chance of contamination? How often do athletes claim is was their joghurt, or even supplements? Supplements can be bought with testing certificate, that's no guarantee, but it sure helps.

Let's just presume that we are indeed living in times where a meat eater has a much greater risk of ending up positive without having intensionally taken the substance. Then just skip the meat, go for a less risky alternative. And don't wait for July to implement it into your life. Start testing it now. Unless you have your own high-tech testing lined up to supply with you a nice variety of meat choices all summer.

It's just sad that the real dopers are taking clen because they think they'll get away with it, making it necessary to take an option of defence away from those who honestly found themselves unintensionally contaminated.

Meat is awesome, but we can do without. It seems we'll have to, if we want to avoid realistically present risk.

 

[El Pistolero]

Good news for Contador.

 

[El Pistolero]

i wonder how can you know what you ate if a sausage or another non-liver looking meat product contained legal clenbuterol and you don't have access to a high tech lab?

take the restaurant's owner word ? what if he lied to cut corners ? what if he/she did not know that a supplier schemed him to cut corners ? have corruption and greed been eradicated ?

it seems you expect of others more than you are willing to put yourself through. it will probably take for you personally to become a victim of others to develop a more realistic perspective.


why to have any legal allowance for clen and warn athletes if it's strictly illegal in the eu?

as to your connection of clen to anabolic steroids, it's clear you're poorly informed despite residing in the clinic.

and another consideration is that the Olympics are open not only to rich teams and athletes who can bring own cooks and supplies. In fact, most athletes come from poor regions that can't afford the luxury.

Which reminds me of that British athlete who had to sell him self on Ebay for 38.000 Euros to get to the Olympics next year

 

[python]

I think your read more, or missed more, in my post than there respectively was or wasn't.

i don't think i missed the main impetus of your thinking - putting all the responsibility on the athlete - whilst you clearly missed what was my main point: up to now only mexico and china were expected to produced a clen-contaminated test...now the officials are talking about london, the hub of 'civilized' europe.

If I were an aspiring Olympian, I would think seriously about my nutricional plans there, already now.

it's wise to do so, true, the issue i brought up is that yours and the authorities expectation is to shove ALL responsibility onto athlete's w/o considering that there is a point of excessive, unrealistic and basically unfair burden on one side whist the other side (organizers, food quality regulators, ad authorities) should also have a responsibility. the food warning from london is a good thing, i welcome it,a better thing would be if london emulated peking and came up with a list of clen-free, certified places for eating.

If meat consumption is so often brought forward by defenses as reason for positives, how big of a commitment is it for the athlete to find a way to prepare without meat? If you must have meat to compete at your peak level, you better make it part of your game plan.

as i noted above, the commitment to meat alternatives could be wise but may not be equally available to all, particularly poor athletes from poor countries.

And do it better than Contador,

i did not mention contador intentionally hoping to keep the focus on wider issues. that you did bring him up, tells me your mind is closed.

I'm a great meat lover myself, but considering the level some vegetarians reach, it might not be a bad idea to follow a non-meat lifestyle for the month or longer before the Games.

i am also a meat lover but again, i don't feel it's solely my responsibility nor is it practical to restrict myself to such degree. besides, the warning concerned LIVER ONLY, not ALL meat products. it's too telling, that in order to ensure zero clen exposure, one has to exclude ALL meat. Isn't it too restrictive considering the rich cultural and ethnic attitudes to meat ? besides, some strength-dependent athletic disciplines would certainly prefer to stay with meat.

It seems to take away a huge percentage of the chance of contamination?

i don't know the percentage. i believe, it's very small, indeed. however, if the london games organizers decided to generate a warning, it seems they are concerned enough.

How often do athletes claim is was their joghurt, or even supplements? Supplements can be bought with testing certificate, that's no guarantee, but it sure helps

staple food contamination issues like meat products are different to supplements and are regulated (by both wada and food police) differently. i largely go along with wada'a position on contaminated supplements but not meat.

It's just sad that the real dopers are taking clen because they think they'll get away with it, making it necessary to take an option of defence away from those who honestly found themselves unintensionally contaminated.

i am well aware that the majority of clen positives are the cases of INTENTIONAL doping. so, there is no regret on my part when they get caught. the issue i keep on beating over and over is that some current wada rules on clen and strict liability need to keep up with times and poorly render themselves to simple black and white interpretations.

i posted many that the increased testing sensitivity in the face of allowed legal contamination, require a more flexible approach, if we want to adhere to fair and reasonable rules.

 

[Old School]

You should chill a little Python.

 

[python]

to add - coincidentally, the london wada labarotory director is one of several directors who went on record advocating threshold for clenbuterol. one reason being to specifically address the issues put forward by the london warning.

but this thread is not about the threshold - we had many threads on that - it's about the shift in expectations, to the possibility of a positive test related to a LEGAL contaminated products in the EU country.

 

[cprior]

If I were an aspiring Olympian, I would think seriously about my nutricional plans there, already now.

I think all "cadre-level" athletes get that prep talk on their first day joining the ranks of being "oficially recognized athletes". If not, the national accosciations did something wrong.

When I went to a talk about sports nutrition, with the presenter coming from our most renowned national universitiy in the subject of sports science, a fair part of the talk was about valid sources for supplements. That was in Germany 2006, so it should be common procedure.

 

[lean mean &green]

this is not quite the controversy python is making it out to be.

clenbuterol levels will be much higher in liver tissue than other tissues used for steak which are essentially skeletal muscle. this was discussed months ago by myself and others when clen contamination first became front and center. in fact, most contamination cases involving toxic levels originate from eating liver. the warning is a wise move. i still doubt that a product like sausage, in which only small amts of liver are likely to be used, would result in an adverse analytical.

it's also a big leap to suggest that a warning such as this about liver means that athletes must swear off all meat products. it might be wise to obstain from liver and sausage during the lead up to competition but i doubt that it's a major inconvenience for most. full disclosure: i don't eat liver for a few reasons but mostly b/c the taste is not to my liking.

 

[BotanyBay]

In other words, publicize the potential excuses now, just in case any athletes test positive. Nice move, sports bodies!

 

[Cloxxki]

In other words, publicize the potential excuses now, just in case any athletes test positive. Nice move, sports bodies!

Indeed. I prevents silly long-winded cases such as current ones.
A clen case in London will be a quick and dirty case. 2 years, no excuses, see you in 2016.
It would help if the German lab would be announced to be supporting, so no amount of clen will be left undetected. Or other labs to raise their game to that test sensitivity.

 

[Polish]

In other words, publicize the potential excuses now, just in case any athletes test positive. Nice move, sports bodies!

I agree with Python's take....Liver consumption will NOT be taken as an excuse. Warning.

And any athletes using clen as a ped will NOT be able to get off the hook by producing a reciept for a liver & onion dinner. Warning.

 

[python]

this is not quite the controversy python is making it out to be.

python did not make a controversy out of it. it's YOU who made a controversy out my very simple and many times repeated position - before we heard that clen contamination may occur only in china and mexico, and now we hear that a european country is concerned with positive tests from legally present contamination in a meat product.
i tried to bring attention to this very same possibility in many dozens of posts here, but of course, because you invested yourself in a dogma, you continued ignoring it.

... i still doubt that a product like sausage, in which only small amts of liver are likely to be used, would result in an adverse analytical.

once again, you are willfully missing a simple point made numerous times...a sausage was just an example to counteract the specific wording of the london warning regarding not eating liver. an athlete simply can not have any idea as to how much liver may or may not be present in one or another processed meat product (mistakenly thinking that he is eating a non-liver product - sausage for example - that is not part of the warning).

it's also a big leap to suggest that a warning such as this about liver means that athletes must swear off all meat products.

i did not suggest that. cloxxi did. but he's essentially correct considering that ALL responsibility is pinned to the athlete.

 

[python]

Indeed. Or other labs to raise their game to that test sensitivity.

once again you're resorting to wishful thinking when discussing a complex problem rather than looking at facts.

why would other labs have to raise their game if wada officially allows them to detect MINIMUM clen levels 40 times higher than those detected in contador

because cloxxki desires so ?

 

[Hugh Januss]

I agree with Python's take....Liver consumption will NOT be taken as an excuse. Warning.

And any athletes using clen as a ped will NOT be able to get off the hook by producing a reciept for a liver & onion dinner. Warning.

Uhm, I think he was actually saying this is another argument in favor of a threshold clen level in testing. But you go ahead and take what you want from it, we get it "Lance good/Contador bad".

 

[Cloxxki]

once again you're resorting to wishful thinking when discussing a complex problem rather than looking at facts.

why would other labs have to raise their game if wada officially allows them to detect MINIMUM clen levels 40 times higher than those detected in contador

because cloxxki desires so ?

You have a talent for misinterpreting me.
I meant that having more sensitive testing rolled out might deter athletes from taking the drug even more.
A 50% (random figure) chance of not getting away with a food contamination claim, does not keep them from taking clen. They'll try. A 30% (random guess) chance of getting caught with the amounts in their urine, is well worth it, as they use it. The more sensitive testing raises that percentage.
How many serious athletes show up to big events while positive on EPO?
It's not hard fact, but we now know that even a small transfusion of previously tested clen-free blood can still make you positive with these better tests. THAT deters people from doping. If they can hardly avoid getting caught, AND the silly excusing are dismissed beforehand.

 

[python]

You have a talent for misinterpreting me.

no. i interpreted you each and every time the way you positioned yourself - a closed-minded, intrenched advocate of only one possibility of clen in the urine - athletes cheating. all your arguments originated from this one single assumption w/o giving the slightest possibility to what i desperately tried to show - there is an objective possibility of real contamination in the EU counry that even the london game organizers accept.

so, it's you who have demonstrated a talent for stubborn misinterpreting of plain facts, blindness to reality and close-mindness.

I meant that having more sensitive testing rolled out might deter athletes from taking the drug even more.

whatever you meat also means that you completely ignored the real possibility i keep bringing up - falsely accusing those who simply ate a legally available and contaminated meat products and did not cheat. limitless increase in sensitivity is a double-edged sword. if you don't understand the simple fact, you're perhaps not worth further discussion.

the rest of your post is the evidence of the same fundamental flaw of an intrenched dogmatic unwilling to consider simple alternative facts in front of him.

and yes, whatever you wish for the sensitivity of tests, wada apparently is not with you. do yourself a favour and read wada technical documents. if you need the specific links (which i doubt as you mind is shut closed( i will oblige.

 

[Master50]

Python I am sure you have heard this before. Insanity is hitting your head against a wall over and over and each time expecting a different outcome.
Some people especially in this particular part of the forum are very emotionally entrenched in their perspective. You said this yourself. For the benefit of providing space for a new point should there ever be another of two points maybe take this argument offline. BTW I have you as winner by leagues.

Cloxxki You have to accept there are more than 1 possible reasons for doping positives. Maybe you don't need to beat your point to death.

Now we all have seen how low a trace of Clen can trigger a positive so maybe even a little contaminated meat in a sausage is enough.

Get a hunting licence and go kill your own. Just Man Up.