Origins of US Postal's leader choice

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JV1973 said:
Not say I wasn't doping, but I've never even seen Ferrari, outside of photos online, much less met him, much less "worked" with him...
Yep, that's the point I'm making. Could anyone win the Tour without matching Lance (or for that matter Riis and Ullrich) in the arms race?
 
Jul 28, 2009
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Ferminal said:
Yep, that's the point I'm making. Could anyone win the Tour without matching Lance (or for that matter Riis and Ullrich) in the arms race?
Well I am sure that a naturally superior talent could beat him with less doping although maybe not with none, not in a GT anyway. However, without the full program for the domestiques, no.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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rata de sentina said:
Well I am sure that a naturally superior talent could beat him with less doping although maybe not with none, not in a GT anyway. However, without the full program for the domestiques, no.
The name of the game for them was to hire the best talent, including immediate natural threats to Lance. All of them, ALL OF THEM were on a program better funded and supplied than the other teams.
Does anyone think Lance without his team's depth and support would have hit the podium on even one Tour?
 
Ferminal said:
Yep, that's the point I'm making. Could anyone win the Tour without matching Lance (or for that matter Riis and Ullrich) in the arms race?

For some reason Tyler and JV like to downplay their chances of winning the Tour, even doped. Tyler in his book, JV explained it on this forum earlier I believe. Something about cumulative fatigue and natural chemical levels that don't favor non-GT'ers, sorry for my crude explanation. But JV with his you-ain't-gonna-get-a-contract-Mr.High-HCT spanked everybody but Mayo & Tyler (lance was down a couple minutes from them) up the Ventoux, All Time. Tyler beat LA on the Madone testing grounds. CVV even outperformed la during certain tests. Sure it's only a single day test, but crimeny. I guess they felt a little guilty over what a farce it all was and just didn't want to take it that far. Something lance didnt struggle with in the least. That and JV couldn't seem to finish one, and Hamilton couldn't finish it in one piece.

Sorry, I seem to have misread and digressed from your question. But it's tough to answer that since nobody knows just exactly what lance was doing.
 
Oldman said:
The name of the game for them was to hire the best talent, including immediate natural threats to Lance. All of them, ALL OF THEM were on a program better funded and supplied than the other teams.
Does anyone think Lance without his team's depth and support would have hit the podium on even one Tour?
I think he would have "won" at least one and probably multiple Tours. It probably would have looked more like 2003 than the other one-sided contests but even so. Armstrong + Dope + Ferrari + the UCI looked a pretty fearsome freakshow from where I was sitting regardless of teammates (and maybe the latter was the key). Build up a few minutes in the TTs and defend in the mountains single-handedly looked do-able. I doubt any of the other americans would have posed any greater threat than Ullrich had they ridden elsewhere
 
Dec 13, 2012
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Eyeballs Out said:
I think he would have "won" at least one and probably multiple Tours. It probably would have looked more like 2003 than the other one-sided contests but even so. Armstrong + Dope + Ferrari + the UCI looked a pretty fearsome freakshow from where I was sitting regardless of teammates (and maybe the latter was the key). Build up a few minutes in the TTs and defend in the mountains single-handedly looked do-able. I doubt any of the other americans would have posed any greater threat than Ullrich had they ridden elsewhere
Floyd could have won multiple Tours if he had been leader, no doubt. Hamilton could have won the Tour as leader of USPS too.
 
Nov 11, 2011
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http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/riders/2003/interviews/?id=ferrari03b#equipe
"Dr MF: I met Lance at the end of 1995; Eddy Merckx introduced us and I think Lance's Motorola team used Merckx's bikes. After that, we started to work together and above all at that time, Lance was interested in the Classics.

We worked together and unfortunately, Lance had his problem with cancer in October 1996."

Is this when Lance was introduced to EPO?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2012/10/10/lance-armstrong-usada-reasoned-decision-george-hincapie/1625607/
"The beginning of it all happened in 1995. Hincapie recalled coming home with Armstrong from the Milan-San Remo race that year and said Armstrong was "very upset" that he was getting beat by others suspected of using performance-enhancing drugs.

"As we drove home Lance said, in substance, that, 'This is bull people are using stuff,' and 'We are getting killed.' He said, in substance, that he did not want to get crushed anymore, and something needed to be done. I understood that he meant the team needed to get on EPO."
 
Jun 1, 2011
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Archibald said:
this may have been covered before, so remove if you wish, but it's something that I've wondered for a while, and yet no book on the whole US Postal/LA story seems to mention it **

Weisel(sp?) bankrolled and began US Postal in the late 90's, right? Before 1998/99...

So, why when you have riders, who're fully fit and seasoned competitors, would you say "okay, we have a guy who wasn't all that great at grand tours, hasn't ridden & raced for a couple of years due to cancer, but now he's making a comback, so lets make him our team's leader"...
how exactly did LA become their team leader with f*ckall credentials for GTs?
Archibald said:
Lance Armstrong was a darling of the USCF by 1990 and still very young at 19 years. He already had name recognition in the U.S. going into a pro career after 1992 and his classic wins made him top dollar here, beating cancer made that 10 to the 10th, and we now know that it was possible to make him into a GT rider. EPO had arrived. USPS was an "American" team.
 
Jun 1, 2011
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Archibald said:
this may have been covered before, so remove if you wish, but it's something that I've wondered for a while, and yet no book on the whole US Postal/LA story seems to mention it **

Weisel(sp?) bankrolled and began US Postal in the late 90's, right? Before 1998/99...

So, why when you have riders, who're fully fit and seasoned competitors, would you say "okay, we have a guy who wasn't all that great at grand tours, hasn't ridden & raced for a couple of years due to cancer, but now he's making a comback, so lets make him our team's leader"...

how exactly did LA become their team leader with f*ckall credentials for GTs?


** for reference, there may be a book I've missed that covers this, but I've read:
It's not about...
Lance Armstrong's War
From Lance to Landis
Bad Blood
The Secret Race
Seven Deadly Sins
and recall nothing in any of them about how he became the leader.
As memory serves, Lance Armstrong was a darling of the USCF by 1990 and still very young at 19 years. He already had name recognition in the U.S. going into a pro career after 1992 and his classic wins made him top dollar here, beating cancer made that 10 to the 10th, and we now know that it was possible to make him into a GT rider. EPO had arrived. USPS was an "American" team.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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BillytheKid said:
As memory serves, Lance Armstrong was a darling of the USCF by 1990 and still very young at 19 years. He already had name recognition in the U.S. going into a pro career after 1992 and his classic wins made him top dollar here, beating cancer made that 10 to the 10th, and we now know that it was possible to make him into a GT rider. EPO had arrived. USPS was an "American" team.
In actual real life Lance was not on the top of the heap and Carmichael reluctantly dealt with the high-maintenance prima-donna. I've suggested anyone interested to review the Granny's Gourmet Muffins team roster. There are many Junior National Champions on that team, all faster than Armstrong; all quitting when faced with the doping options offerred by Wenzel and Carmichael.
This in the period that Lance, Tyler, George...were 'roiding up to compete with them.
Lance wasn't on the top as a junior; just a responder to drugs and possessing the roach-like ability to survive in USAC's byzantine environment.
 
Mar 8, 2010
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Oldman said:
The name of the game for them was to hire the best talent, including immediate natural threats to Lance. All of them, ALL OF THEM were on a program better funded and supplied than the other teams.
Does anyone think Lance without his team's depth and support would have hit the podium on even one Tour?
Oh really ?
Those stupid European amateur dopers. Pfff.
I think that's just a myth to keep your world in order.

Teams depth ?
What about Ullrich, Klöden and Vino trying to play with lonely Lance on regular basis ?
Never happened I guess. Fata Morgana.

Why can't some people just accept that there was a lot of talent in Lance ?
We all remember that stomping cow+playboy from Texas, don't we ?
You can't do and win all this without potential. Potential that had to be detected and supported accurately, after the mind (and anger) itself was woken up by a kick into the balls.
Why not grant him that ?

You can't do all this only with Dope + Ferrari + UCI + other stupid, poor riders and teams.
Other thinking is not from this earth and too much hate clearly dims the mind and sense for the obvious.

It's not just the fact that he won, he mostly won those tours with huge gaps and in SUPERIOR STYLE. And this is the point where people not granting him the needed potential and talent start to look ridiculous.
 

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