Other than Merckx, who is the greatest of them all?

[Mambo95]

The February 2011 Cycle Sport mag did their own assessment of who the greatest of all time is.

To be fair to CS, they expressly said it wasn't a ranking of greatness, merely a list of most wins - with a stage win in the Tour of Britain counting as much as a Tour de France overall win.

 

[Kellys Big Sprocket]

Not bothered with "who's the greatest" but seeing the Kings name is on the vote it has to be Kelly all the way for me. Surprised he has not hand more votes with this one. I know my dad would say Coppi.

 

[Descender]

Hinault. Second best palmares, no "would haves".

 

[Ryaguas]

Lance Amstrong ALL THE WAY!!!! BTW who is that "Hinault" guy that everybody talks a lot?? Dont know why Contador is there cuz He has no won any GT or Classic by himself... He has ever won thx to Lance!

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

To be fair to CS, they expressly said it wasn't a ranking of greatness, merely a list of most wins - with a stage win in the Tour of Britain counting as much as a Tour de France overall win.

Very true. Along the line of being fair, I should say that my intent was not a slap in the face to CS. In fact, it was the CS article listing pros with the most wins that caught my attention and prompted me to purchase the Feb 2011 issue of CS from a local book store. It is a great article, including one or two short paragraphs about each of the 51 riders. It alone was a worthwhile read. I might just have to re-up my CS subscription.

But another topic that would be interesting comes to mind from the CS article, which noted that crits, kermesses, and exhibition races available to the pros were excluded from the win totals. I wonder who the top 50 winners of those kind of races would be. I wouldn't be surprised if that list was dominated by riders from pre-1980 eras.

 

[Andre.J]

Roger De Vlaeminck

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

He and Merckx are probably 1,2 or 2,1 at the top of that list.

 

[flicker]

Roger De Vlaeminck

Beauty and elegance on a bicycle.

 

[Altitude]

The answer is Hugo Koblet. How did he not make the list?

 

[Echoes]

He won just a bit less than Merckx, duo to his injuries, but nonetheless his record is unique & prolific as Eddy's

Merckx: 7 Milan Sanremo
Hinault: 0

Case closed.

Or Bartali, who lost more of his prime years to WWII

Again they didn't lose much during the war, they raced and Coppi was already stronger. He won the Giro dell'Emilia with a huge gap on Bartali and he broke the hour record between two bombings.

Bartali was a great man, a great climber and sprinter but he couldn't win a ITT to save his life, or worse, win Paris-Roubaix (ITT is obviously the kind of races that is the most indicative of the rider's "motor"). Besides, his palmares is too Italy-oriented to be compared to Coppi's. Remember that at that time, Italian classics and the Giro were raced among local riders (hence a depleted field).

Beauty and elegance on a bicycle.

This.

The answer is Hugo Koblet. How did he not make the list?

That's because he was a mug. Not even in my all-time top50. The riders mentioned in the poll are all but 2 greater than him.

Far too erratic to be an all-time great.

 

[The Hitch]

The answer is Hugo Koblet. How did he not make the list?

I agree that hes been very good setting up the cq game, but what has he done for me lately

 

[Sofía_]

if this is about the greatest rider, despite wins or results: Gino Bartali

 

[flicker]

Roger De Vlaeminck

What does Roger have like 260 wins, rode cross road and track, not to shabby.

Won all the monuments+ ROUBAIX 4X. Moser won a lot also but IMO unfairly sometimes.

 

[ultimobici]

What does Roger have like 260 wins, rode cross road and track, not to shabby.

Won all the monuments+ ROUBAIX 4X. Moser won a lot also but IMO unfairly sometimes.

I presume you mean the 84 Giro with the RAI helicopter's help?

Other than that Moser was a classics rider par excellence. He has multiple P-R victories and is the only rider ever to win three in a row. He is also only two podium places behind De Vlaeminck. On top of this he has two other Monuments as well as one World's. That makes him as big a rider as De Vlaeminck,IMO, and that's coming from a De Vlaeminck fan!

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

What does Roger have like 260 wins, rode cross road and track, not to shabby.

Won all the monuments+ ROUBAIX 4X. Moser won a lot also but IMO unfairly sometimes.

Mr Paris-Roubaix probably has around 260 wins counting all the X, track, crits & kermesses

 

[flicker]

I presume you mean the 84 Giro with the RAI helicopter's help?

Other than that Moser was a classics rider par excellence. He has multiple P-R victories and is the only rider ever to win three in a row. He is also only two podium places behind De Vlaeminck. On top of this he has two other Monuments as well as one World's. That makes him as big a rider as De Vlaeminck,IMO, and that's coming from a De Vlaeminck fan!

Moser, a hard man yes also one of my favorites. Those rumors about his trainer when Moser broke the hour record disturbed me. Also did not Moser ride an aerodynamic bike ? That to me showed his hour was not as good as Eddys' hour.

Also I like tall riders who can do well at track events, Merckx, Coppi, DeVlaeminck. That is my own prejudice, I may someday become a big fan of Taylor Phinney also.

Added that DeVlaeminck excelled at cross also showed his massive capabilities.

 

[Velo Dude]

Never realised how awesome Gino Bartali was though
what he achieved out of cycling is truly outstanding

Just read about what Bartali did during WWII. Wow, I'm a fan.

 

[Echoes]

Moser, a hard man yes also one of my favorites. Those rumors about his trainer when Moser broke the hour record disturbed me. Also did not Moser ride an aerodynamic bike ? That to me showed his hour was not as good as Eddys' hour.

He did and also used lenticular wheels when not sanctioned by the UCI. His hours are no longer considered a "record" by the UCI, anyway, but a "performance". It shouldn't be considered a record.

Besides the Helicopter controversy at the Giro 1984 (among other things including using the Hour bike at the last ITT), there's controversy round his Worlds win since Thurau waited for him after puncture and didn't seem to compete in the sprint (according to some, at least). Hinault said "if I were richer, I would be World Champion". The French have always been frustrated.

But despite all these controversies, Moser is definitely up there as an all-time great. Those who claim otherwise know nothing of cycling history.

Added that DeVlaeminck excelled at cross also showed his massive capabilities.

Yeah De Vlaeminck R. is definitely an all-time great in cyclocross too, perhaps as great as his brother (but he couldn't do everything of course, just like Boom).

He won the heaviest crosses in the calendar such as Overijse, Asper-Gavere or the numerous Swiss crosses that existed back then. By contrast, a guy like Adri van der Poel was a fast course specialist.

I've read a report about De Vlaeminck's win in Overijse 1970. Took the lead in the second lap and finish one minute ahead of Germany's Rolf Wolfshohl (former 3 time World Champion). Very impressive.

Also, Moser once organized a cross in his Palu di Giovo. And De Vlaeminck crushed every one there.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Ok. I got bored. Here's the 14 pros with double-digit placings in the 5 monuments.

I think after Boonen at 10 placings, the next closest active racers are Gilbert and Canc at 5 apiece. Looking at the guys above Boonen, I think he can easily surpass Van Looy & Bartali (13 placings) and wouldn't be surprised if he leapfrogs Coppi (15 placings). Lots of things can factor in. He is about 30 yo. What do you think? Could he catch Mr P-R at 21?

I hope he can keep focused, just go out have fun, forget the pressure, and do it. Van Looy, Coppi, Roger... those are all serious heavy hitters from a long time ago. It would be nice to see someone current break those records. I have to admit Roger would be tough to catch.

Name......[Total Placings]......Placing Race Year
Merckx................[30].............1st LBL 1969, 1st LBL 1971, 1st LBL 1972,
.............1st LBL 1973, 1st LBL 1975, 1st LOM 1971, 1st LOM 1972,
.............1st MSR 1966, 1st MSR 1967, 1st MSR 1969, 1st MSR 1971,
.............1st MSR 1972, 1st MSR 1975, 1st MSR 1976, 1st PR 1968,
.............1st PR 1970, 1st PR 1973, 1st RVV 1969, 1st RVV 1975,
.............2nd LBL 1967, 2nd LOM 1966, 2nd LOM 1974, 2nd PR 1969,
.............2nd PR 1975,
.............3rd LBL 1970, 3rd LOM 1968, 3rd RVV 1967, 3rd RVV 1970,
.............3rd RVV 1973, 3rd RVV 1974

De Vlaeminck.......[21].............1st LBL 1970, 1st LOM 1974, 1st LOM 1976,
.............1st MSR 1973, 1st MSR 1978, 1st MSR 1979, 1st PR 1972,
.............1st PR 1974, 1st PR 1975, 1st PR 1977, 1st RVV 1977,
.............2nd LOM 1973, 2nd MSR 1969, 2nd MSR 1977, 2nd MSR 1981,
.............2nd PR 1970, 2nd PR 1978, 2nd PR 1979, 2nd PR 1981,
.............3rd MSR 1974, 3rd PR 1976

Coppi..................[15].............1st LOM 1946, 1st LOM 1947, 1st LOM 1948,
.............1st LOM 1949, 1st LOM 1954, 1st MSR 1946, 1st MSR 1948,
.............1st MSR 1949, 1st PR 1950,
.............2nd LOM 1956, 2nd PR 1949, 2nd PR 1952, 2nd PR 1955,
.............3rd LOM 1950, 3rd LOM 1951

Girardengo..........[15].............1st LOM 1919, 1st LOM 1921, 1st LOM 1922,
.............1st MSR 1918, 1st MSR 1921, 1st MSR 1923, 1st MSR 1925,
.............1st MSR 1926, 1st MSR 1928,
.............2nd LOM 1924, 2nd MSR 1917, 2nd MSR 1919, 2nd MSR 1922,
.............3rd MSR 1920, 3rd MSR 1924

Kelly....................[15].............1st LBL 1984, 1st LBL 1989, 1st LOM 1983,
.............1st LOM 1985, 1st LOM 1991, 1st MSR 1986, 1st MSR 1992,
.............1st PR 1984, 1st PR 1986,
.............2nd LOM 1986, 2nd MSR 1984, 2nd RVV 1984, 2nd RVV 1986,
.............2nd RVV 1987,
.............3rd PR 1985

Moser..................[15].............1st LOM 1975, 1st LOM 1978, 1st MSR 1984,
.............1st PR 1978, 1st PR 1979, 1st PR 1980,
.............2nd MSR 1975, 2nd PR 1974, 2nd PR 1976, 2nd RVV 1976,
.............2nd RVV 1980,
.............3rd LBL 1978, 3rd LOM 1982, 3rd PR 1981, 3rd PR 1983

Museeuw.............[15].............1st PR 1996, 1st PR 2000, 1st PR 2002,
.............1st RVV 1993, 1st RVV 1995, 1st RVV 1998,
.............2nd PR 2001, 2nd RVV 1991, 2nd RVV 1994, 2nd RVV 2002,
.............3rd MSR 1992, 3rd PR 1995, 3rd PR 1997, 3rd RVV 1996,
.............3rd RVV 1999

Bartali..................[13].............1st LOM 1936, 1st LOM 1939, 1st LOM 1940,
.............1st MSR 1939, 1st MSR 1940, 1st MSR 1947, 1st MSR 1950,
.............2nd LOM 1937, 2nd LOM 1938, 2nd LOM 1942, 2nd LOM 1947,
.............3rd LOM 1935, 3rd LOM 1945

Van Looy.............[13].............1st LBL 1961, 1st LOM 1959, 1st MSR 1958,
.............1st PR 1961, 1st PR 1962, 1st PR 1965, 1st RVV 1959, 1st RVV 1962
.............2nd MSR 1961, 2nd PR 1963, 2nd PR 1967,
.............3rd PR 1958, 3rd RVV 1960

Belloni..................[11].............1st LOM 1915, 1st LOM 1918, 1st LOM 1928,
.............1st MSR 1917, 1st MSR 1920,
.............2nd LOM 1919, 2nd LOM 1921, 2nd MSR 1918, 2nd MSR 1923,
.............2nd MSR 1924,
.............3rd LOM 1920

Godefroot.............[11].............1st LBL 1967, 1st PR 1969,
.............1st RVV 1968, 1st RVV 1978,
.............2nd LBL 1968, 2nd PR 1973, 2nd RVV 1970, 2nd RVV 1977,
.............3rd LBL 1973, 3rd LBL 1975, 3rd PR 1968

Binda...................[10].............1st LOM 1925, 1st LOM 1926, 1st LOM 1927,
.............1st LOM 1931, 1st MSR 1929, 1st MSR 1931,
.............2nd LOM 1930, 2nd MSR 1927, 2nd MSR 1928, 2nd MSR 1932

Boonen................[10].............1st PR 2005, 1st PR 2008, 1st PR 2009,
.............1st RVV 2005, 1st RVV 2006,
.............2nd MSR 2010, 2nd PR 2006, 2nd RVV 2010,
.............3rd MSR 2007, 3rd PR 2002

Gimondi................[10].............1st LOM 1966, 1st LOM 1973,
.............1st MSR 1974, 1st PR 1966,
.............2nd LOM 1967, 2nd LOM 1970, 2nd MSR 1971, 2nd RVV 1969,
.............3rd LOM 1972, 3rd MSR 1973

 

[red_flanders]

Ok. I got bored. Here's the 14 pros with double-digit placings in the 5 monuments.

I think after Boonen at 10 placings, the next closest active racers are Gilbert and Canc at 5 apiece. Looking at the guys above Boonen, I think he can easily surpass Van Looy & Bartali (13 placings) and wouldn't be surprised if he leapfrogs Coppi (15 placings). Lots of things can factor in. He is about 30 yo. What do you think? Could he catch Mr P-R at 21?

I hope he can keep focused, just go out have fun, forget the pressure, and do it. Van Looy, Coppi, Roger... those are all serious heavy hitters from a long time ago. It would be nice to see someone current break those records. I have to admit Roger would be tough to catch.

Name......[Total Placings]......Placing Race Year
Merckx................[30].............1st LBL 1969, 1st LBL 1971, 1st LBL 1972,
.............1st LBL 1973, 1st LBL 1975, 1st LOM 1971, 1st LOM 1972,
.............1st MSR 1966, 1st MSR 1967, 1st MSR 1969, 1st MSR 1971,
.............1st MSR 1972, 1st MSR 1975, 1st MSR 1976, 1st PR 1968,
.............1st PR 1970, 1st PR 1973, 1st RVV 1969, 1st RVV 1975,
.............2nd LBL 1967, 2nd LOM 1966, 2nd LOM 1974, 2nd PR 1969,
.............2nd PR 1975,
.............3rd LBL 1970, 3rd LOM 1968, 3rd RVV 1967, 3rd RVV 1970,
.............3rd RVV 1973, 3rd RVV 1974

De Vlaeminck.......[21].............1st LBL 1970, 1st LOM 1974, 1st LOM 1976,
.............1st MSR 1973, 1st MSR 1978, 1st MSR 1979, 1st PR 1972,
.............1st PR 1974, 1st PR 1975, 1st PR 1977, 1st RVV 1977,
.............2nd LOM 1973, 2nd MSR 1969, 2nd MSR 1977, 2nd MSR 1981,
.............2nd PR 1970, 2nd PR 1978, 2nd PR 1979, 2nd PR 1981,
.............3rd MSR 1974, 3rd PR 1976

Coppi..................[15].............1st LOM 1946, 1st LOM 1947, 1st LOM 1948,
.............1st LOM 1949, 1st LOM 1954, 1st MSR 1946, 1st MSR 1948,
.............1st MSR 1949, 1st PR 1950,
.............2nd LOM 1956, 2nd PR 1949, 2nd PR 1952, 2nd PR 1955,
.............3rd LOM 1950, 3rd LOM 1951

Girardengo..........[15].............1st LOM 1919, 1st LOM 1921, 1st LOM 1922,
.............1st MSR 1918, 1st MSR 1921, 1st MSR 1923, 1st MSR 1925,
.............1st MSR 1926, 1st MSR 1928,
.............2nd LOM 1924, 2nd MSR 1917, 2nd MSR 1919, 2nd MSR 1922,
.............3rd MSR 1920, 3rd MSR 1924

Kelly....................[15].............1st LBL 1984, 1st LBL 1989, 1st LOM 1983,
.............1st LOM 1985, 1st LOM 1991, 1st MSR 1986, 1st MSR 1992,
.............1st PR 1984, 1st PR 1986,
.............2nd LOM 1986, 2nd MSR 1984, 2nd RVV 1984, 2nd RVV 1986,
.............2nd RVV 1987,
.............3rd PR 1985

Moser..................[15].............1st LOM 1975, 1st LOM 1978, 1st MSR 1984,
.............1st PR 1978, 1st PR 1979, 1st PR 1980,
.............2nd MSR 1975, 2nd PR 1974, 2nd PR 1976, 2nd RVV 1976,
.............2nd RVV 1980,
.............3rd LBL 1978, 3rd LOM 1982, 3rd PR 1981, 3rd PR 1983

Museeuw.............[15].............1st PR 1996, 1st PR 2000, 1st PR 2002,
.............1st RVV 1993, 1st RVV 1995, 1st RVV 1998,
.............2nd PR 2001, 2nd RVV 1991, 2nd RVV 1994, 2nd RVV 2002,
.............3rd MSR 1992, 3rd PR 1995, 3rd PR 1997, 3rd RVV 1996,
.............3rd RVV 1999

Bartali..................[13].............1st LOM 1936, 1st LOM 1939, 1st LOM 1940,
.............1st MSR 1939, 1st MSR 1940, 1st MSR 1947, 1st MSR 1950,
.............2nd LOM 1937, 2nd LOM 1938, 2nd LOM 1942, 2nd LOM 1947,
.............3rd LOM 1935, 3rd LOM 1945

Van Looy.............[13].............1st LBL 1961, 1st LOM 1959, 1st MSR 1958,
.............1st PR 1961, 1st PR 1962, 1st PR 1965, 1st RVV 1959, 1st RVV 1962
.............2nd MSR 1961, 2nd PR 1963, 2nd PR 1967,
.............3rd PR 1958, 3rd RVV 1960

Belloni..................[11].............1st LOM 1915, 1st LOM 1918, 1st LOM 1928,
.............1st MSR 1917, 1st MSR 1920,
.............2nd LOM 1919, 2nd LOM 1921, 2nd MSR 1918, 2nd MSR 1923,
.............2nd MSR 1924,
.............3rd LOM 1920

Godefroot.............[11].............1st LBL 1967, 1st PR 1969,
.............1st RVV 1968, 1st RVV 1978,
.............2nd LBL 1968, 2nd PR 1973, 2nd RVV 1970, 2nd RVV 1977,
.............3rd LBL 1973, 3rd LBL 1975, 3rd PR 1968

Binda...................[10].............1st LOM 1925, 1st LOM 1926, 1st LOM 1927,
.............1st LOM 1931, 1st MSR 1929, 1st MSR 1931,
.............2nd LOM 1930, 2nd MSR 1927, 2nd MSR 1928, 2nd MSR 1932

Boonen................[10].............1st PR 2005, 1st PR 2008, 1st PR 2009,
.............1st RVV 2005, 1st RVV 2006,
.............2nd MSR 2010, 2nd PR 2006, 2nd RVV 2010,
.............3rd MSR 2007, 3rd PR 2002

Gimondi................[10].............1st LOM 1966, 1st LOM 1973,
.............1st MSR 1974, 1st PR 1966,
.............2nd LOM 1967, 2nd LOM 1970, 2nd MSR 1971, 2nd RVV 1969,
.............3rd LOM 1972, 3rd MSR 1973

Great post.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Great post.

thanks, but I have to credit MS Excel for helping concatenate those titles.

 

[stainlessguy1]

Poulidor didn't win the Tour (unless you mean the Tour of Spain).

Poulidor may not have been the winner of the tour but was dubbed the Eternal Second . Considering his longevity in general racing and his staying power. The fact he was alwasy beaten by someone else with variance in time differences he was always up there . He was more of a Hero than the rest of them . He did race in a time with lots of competition and good competition . If his competition was a bit doped like everyone on all the other threads suggests in many ways , then Poulidor's performance is totally believable as to what the body can do .

I am adding, that to me , placing means placing in the top ten , that is being up there in my eyes . Placing in the top ten should have recognition and analysis during the discussions as to greatness or longevity or whatever your category of choice .

 

[stainlessguy1]

tours and classics and there is more .

Re-reading some of your posts , i think if you are going to choose between a truly great rider for best all around then you really need to look at more than just the tours and classics . One of the posters suggested that today the riders are more specialized . The specialize in say TT or Tours or just classics or a combination of 2 . But when you go back in time a bit as you have maybe you should look at the career of riders that rode Track as well as classics , TT's and Tours . Then reconsider what it really means to being the best of all time . Its still hard if people choose different venues to specialize in and to earn their pay .

One such Rider that comes to mind Is Rudi Altig of Germany .
_______________________________________________________________
Read career on link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudi_Altig
_______________________________________________________________

I believe that the ideology choosing such a person must have some kindof parameter . The question from OP is besides Merckx. But if you are talking only road . Maybe so , but if you include cycling as a full all around sport how do you begin to categorize that .
I think the best way to go about this , ( as stated once before ) , break it down into categories : Such as the pre war years , since it was a time of so totally different it cannot be compared to the carbon fiber era .
The War years , since that is self explanitory .
The post war era and so on and so forth .
To not get all nations all up in arms over their stars , i say the idea should be an international Hall of fame for all cyclists of all time .
The hall of fame breaks it down into the categories .

Please feel free to look at Rudi Altig's career and read what he said about the *different time/ era * comment
Now consider that track racing is a part of cycling that was big , very big .
Some luster is washed off of the track but it is still an olympic venue and should be included in your assessment of great all arounder .
I am not a track rider myself but i respect those that do it and those that did it and those that rode the classic six day events non stop .

They are achievements overlooked .