Paris-Nice 2023, March 5-12

[Krzysztof_O]

Notwithstanding the discussion between Vingo and Pogi's level - and I reckon this stage has not settled anything - there's one thing I tend everyone would agree on: Pogacar has uncanny self and race reading abilities. Save for the mistake in Flanders 2022 and Tour 2022 - and that was mind boggling on how JBV set that trap - he is a very smart rider.

TBF Pogi usually tries to win by brute-force and racing tactics is something he can improve on and maybe it's already showing some effects - he said he was vary of Vinge's strength and didn't want to counter immediately.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Basically I think in this instance, Vingegaard simply went on the offensive to show off his strength in Paris-Nice & lost pretty spectacularly. He himself clearly didn't think he'd be a lot worse than Pogacar, or else he wouldn't have tried that attack the way he did.

Vinge is strong, he's clearly stronger than last year at this time. But going toe to toe with Pogacar in cold, early spring conditions (when he usually hits his first peak) is a tough task. Vinge overestimated his chances. As for narrative that Vinge peaks for Tours, there's really nothing to discuss, just compare the results and numbers. Dauphine'22 being a notable exception (but he was already approaching his peak then).

 

[Lequack]

Basically I think in this instance, Vingegaard simply went on the offensive to show off his strength in Paris-Nice & lost pretty spectacularly. He himself clearly didn't think he'd be a lot worse than Pogacar, or else he wouldn't have tried that attack the way he did.

Yes, and also it's not to underestimate the psychological aspect. If with his attack Vinge distanced everyone, like he did in Gran Camino, it would surely give him more strength in the legs to continue.

"When Pogacar attacked, Jonas went over his limit and couldn't immediately close the gap." ~ Grischa Niermann

Vingegaard sixth on first uphill finish Paris-Nice

Jonas Vingegaard has finished sixth in the fourth stage of Paris-Nice. The Team Jumbo-Visma rider attacked in the final of the first mountain stage but…

www.teamjumbovisma.com

 

[Divergence]

Vinge is strong, he's clearly stronger than last year at this time.

How do you figure? Last year he finished 2nd at TA. This year he is on course to be worse than that. This could all change on the next summit finish, but at the moment it does not look that good for Vinge. Maybe it is the pressure of being the leader...

 

[Danskebjerge]

The funniest highlight of the day was the sprint to the line between Pedersen and Cort (11 minutes after the winners).

 

[Krzysztof_O]

How do you figure? Last year he finished 2nd at TA. This year he is on course to be worse than that. This could all change on the next summit finish, but at the moment it does not look that good for Vinge. Maybe it is the pressure of being the leader...

The fact that he tried to attack and then followed Pog speaks a lot while last year he was dropped like a stone in TA. He was overconfident vs Pog today. He was also very strong in his first stage-race in Camino. We will see during next stages, it he's dropped by significant margin again then I will call off my words.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

To those stressing the weather component, I think it was about ten degrees Celsius, so I don‘t see it as a major factor in the big gap occurring today. I think Vingegaard simply went too hard at a time of the year which is perhaps before he is really in optimal shape.
I find the way Vingegaard rode is in contrast to the way many people including me saw him; As a very robotic rider.

 

[Extinction]

To those stressing the weather component, I think it was about ten degrees Celsius, so I don‘t see it as a major factor in the big gap occurring today. I think Vingegaard simply went too hard at a time of the year which is perhaps before he is really in optimal shape.
I find the way Vingegaard rode is in contrast to the way many people including me saw him; As a very robotic rider.

Performance anxiety?

 

[Extinction]

How do you figure? Last year he finished 2nd at TA. This year he is on course to be worse than that. This could all change on the next summit finish, but at the moment it does not look that good for Vinge. Maybe it is the pressure of being the leader...

And the pressure to demostrate such can lead to overzelousness.

 

[Lequack]

The only question remaining is, where would Remco have finished today.

Lanterne Rouge clip

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3HLZ72hpNQ

 

[Lequack]

Of course the big story of the race will be Pogacar vs. Vingegaard. However, there will be another interesting "battle":

vs.

Who will leave the race as the "big man" - figuratively speaking - of the team?
Will they be able to behave themselves, and work together?

Now that Gaudu is in this form, can he boss Demare around?

 

[Escarabajo]

The only question remaining is, where would Remco have finished today.

Lanterne Rouge clip

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3HLZ72hpNQ

Remco would have arrived 1 minute ahead. these guys are too slow for Remco. That's way he went to train alone!!
But we have to wait another year for the showdown.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

How Vingegaard fares on stage 7 will tell us whether this was a fluke blow-up or if his form really is down. Frankly it’s probably better for him if his form is just down.

His form is very good, Pogacar is just better rider on shorter climbing efforts at low altitude in cold conditions. They are both flying

 

[Taxus4a]

Remco would have arrived 1 minute ahead. these guys are too slow for Remco. That's way he went to train alone!!
But we have to wait another year for the showdown.

In a climb like this he would have been with them. I dont think better than Pogacar. Burt in a real hard mountain stage I think he is worse. Anway he is training hard that to win the Giro.

The good think today in this amazing era, is that we have similar kind of riders, but with some small differences. Remco is very good at ITT and very good attacking in small climbs. Pogacar is very good in both of that things, but no so good at ITT, and no so good than him in climbs of about 2 Km.a, though is crazy good anyway as well. He is the best maybe at about 2 to 10 Km climbs, (very good in longer ones, but not his best )and he is good at the classics, any classic, but specially with climbs. Remco in classic with climbs..But at the moment not pave.

Vingegard is very good, but not so good like Remco at the ITT , but is the best of all at the lomg climbs (but not a pure climber...maybe there is someone better than him for that). Very good as well in shor climbs of about 5 to 10 Km, but no so good at Remco or Pogacar. (I mean always really small differences)

Pogacar and Remco can attack on an small climg from far and get the stage. In a medium mountain stage or even just hilly.

Vingegard close, but not at that level than them.

And if we talk about classis, we have Van Aert (for GT as well), Van der Poel, Pidcock (for GT as well),..to add Poggy and Remco...and some of them very similar for some king of classics, but ddifferents for anothers... Speed, (Van der Poel, better than Van Aert and this one better than Poggy, but this one better than others...

So, it is amazing becouse is an era in wich they had to play his card, and they know how to play, and they have a good ego and not fear to attack or risk....and his ego make them make mistakes and in that case we see "craks" like today or Pogacar at le Tour

For me, I would like to watch a real battle in LBL Remco againts Pogacar. Both of them can make and exhibition on that race, and irt is interesting to watch how they manage. But almost in any race all these cyclist are in the battle can be spectacular.

I dont agree with Bruynel the important is July. Of course is the most importante race, but is great to make cycling great at any race.

We are happy to live this, in an era too much controled for technology and radios...I am not sure if the 70s riders would have been so espectacular in this era, than the ones we have now

 

[Taxus4a]

His form is very good, Pogacar is just better rider on shorter climbing efforts at low altitude in cold conditions. They are both flying

Exactly,..Vingegard must feeling very confident to try to drop Pogacar in a day like this.

 

[Extinction]

We are happy to live this, in an era too much controled for technology and radios...I am not sure if the 70s riders would have been so espectacular in this era, than the ones we have now

I find myself chuckling over this, because I almost agree with everything that you say, which makes me wonder if you are for real or a parody of a feined foreigner trying to comunicate in English. Whatever the case, this last statement contradicts your evident love (or is this a parody too?) for Froome, because he is the personification of a cycling that is "too much controled for technology and radios." And the 70s riders were just as spectacular, but not as fast.

 

[tobydawq]

@Logic-is-your-friend give the account back to @Escarabajo .

Yes, because Logic always makes silly, unsupported claims like that...

 

[topcat]

Today’s stage woulda been good if we had Remy or Roggie there. As it was, Pog beat up Vinnie like a rag doll. Tour over.

 

[Oldermanish]

His form is very good, Pogacar is just better rider on shorter climbing efforts at low altitude in cold conditions. They are both flying

Pogacar just looks more "racey" and capable of recovering from attacks. Jonas may not have many of those serious efforts to the level he'll need for the Tour. No need for him to panic and the psychological damage is not a big deal unless he gets hammered alot this week. It's just one day at this point although I love seeing local Mateo Jorgenson in the top ten. Another good youngster.

 

[Andy schleck]

Pogacar just looks more "racey" and capable of recovering from attacks. Jonas may not have many of those serious efforts to the level he'll need for the Tour. No need for him to panic and the psychological damage is not a big deal unless he gets hammered alot this week. It's just one day at this point although I love seeing local Mateo Jorgenson in the top ten. Another good youngster.

I don't think there is reason for vingegaard to panic. He arrived with vauquelin and paret peintre...so it was a bad day, just it. Besides that, it's march, he did a mistake attacking first in a climb that doesn't suit him so much. Even pogacar is good shape, but not in top shape, otherwise he wouldn't arrive with gaudu.
I'm quite curious to see what happens saturday.

 

[Escarabajo]

I find myself chuckling over this, because I almost agree with everything that you say, which makes me wonder if you are for real or a parody of a feined foreigner trying to comunicate in English. Whatever the case, this last statement contradicts your evident love (or is this a parody too?) for Froome, because he is the personification of a cycling that is "too much controled for technology and radios." And the 70s riders were just as spectacular, but not as fast.

Taxus is very real!
Believe it or not.

 

[woodburn]

Pogacar just looks more "racey" and capable of recovering from attacks. Jonas may not have many of those serious efforts to the level he'll need for the Tour. No need for him to panic and the psychological damage is not a big deal unless he gets hammered alot this week. It's just one day at this point although I love seeing local Mateo Jorgenson in the top ten. Another good youngster.

Two Americans in top 10 even if Powless has bad day.

 

[Tonton]

Great job Gaudu, but Pog is just too good.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Congratulations to Tadej Pogačar for winning the stage and taking the leaders jersey.

We could go into details but UAE butchered JV in this race. From telling late that they will participate with Pogi. To each and every stage and on how they prepared and approached it. They got what they came for and i am afraid it's not over just yet.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Not going to happen but I hope Pogacar can sweep every leader jersey. What’s the record for GT and stage races of winning multiple leader jersey? I know Pog has the advantage of the young rider but he is at 12 counting them and 7 not counting them.