Paris-Roubaix 2012 - The Queen of the Classics (257.5km)

[El Pistolero]

Lol. one would think that when a Belgian wins like that you'd be happy but instead find something else to get mad at. i feel sorry for you if you can't enjoy it but if you want to play this game take a look at the facts rather than promoting this idea that absolutely anything a Belgian does must be superior to anything a non Belgian has ever done


To those who take your Belgian > non Belgian logic Boonens ride is better but to those who compare the actual rides its a different story.

Cans solo was clearly better. for one he took out minutes out of the others. it was 2 minutes in no time and got as high as 4. Boonens max was 1.25
For another cancellara was riding against boonen (by his own words in great shape) hushovd pozzato and fit flecha.

Boonen on the other hand rode against ballan boom and an injured flecha. the fact that an injured flecha was never more than 1.30 behind boonen while a fit one was dangling 4 mins behind cancellara speaks for itself as to which was the superior ride.

Erm, Boonen won with 1.39 advantage lol. And Flecha is in top form, I don't know how he did it, but don't use the injury excuse, he was never going to get any better. They chased behind Boonen yesterday and and in 2010 only Boonen chased until he gave up. After that no one bothered chasing anymore.

Hushovd sucks this year, deal with it. Can't handle Roubaix, will never win. He didn't take a single turn in 2010. Neither did Pozzato actually.

For a sprinter to do a 53km solo, it definitely is more impressive. It's like Cancellara beating Cavendish in a Tour sprint.

 

[shalgo]

Cans solo was clearly better. for one he took out minutes out of the others. it was 2 minutes in no time and got as high as 4. Boonens max was 1.25
For another cancellara was riding against boonen (by his own words in great shape) hushovd pozzato and fit flecha.

Boonen on the other hand rode against ballan boom and an injured flecha. the fact that an injured flecha was never more than 1.30 behind boonen while a fit one was dangling 4 mins behind cancellara speaks for itself as to which was the superior ride.

They were both amazing rides. Overall, Cancellara's probably was the more impressive. But to balance out the comparison a little it is worth noting that Boonen had an organized chase behind him while nobody was willing to help Boonen chase Cancellara two years ago.

 

[Cancellator]

They were both amazing rides. Overall, Cancellara's probably was the more impressive. But to balance out the comparison a little it is worth noting that Boonen had an organized chase behind him while nobody was willing to help Boonen chase Cancellara two years ago.

That "organized chase" sucked big time though.

 

[shalgo]

That "organized chase" sucked big time though.

Well, we're only saying that because it didn't work. They were still riding hard. But to be fair, Boonen did have the advantage of Terpstra disrupting the chase.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Boonen gained time very slowly on a group let by guys like Stannard and Hayman for a long time (until the finale).

Cancellara gained 2 minutes on a group led by Boonen and other top cobble riders in no time.

Both are impressive, but it's no doubt which is more impressive. Who really cares anyway. 50km solo = godlike

 

[Magnus]

To those who take your Belgian > non Belgian logic Boonens ride is better but to those who compare the actual rides its a different story.

Cans solo was clearly better. for one he took out minutes out of the others. it was 2 minutes in no time and got as high as 4. Boonens max was 1.25
For another cancellara was riding against boonen (by his own words in great shape) hushovd pozzato and fit flecha.

Boonen's ride was more impressive imo (I'm not Belgian).
Boonen could have just waited for the sprint but he didn't. Fabian had to attack. Boonen's attack was longer from the finish than Fabians. And the fact that Tom isn't multiple TT wc makes it more impressive for Tom to pull such a move.

I think you overestimate Fabu's lead.

 

[The Hitch]

For a sprinter to do a 53km solo, it definitely is more impressive. It's like Cancellara beating Cavendish in a Tour sprint.

Boonens solod into the velodrome before

Besides in case you didnt realise this was not a tt, it was a 260km northern classic with over 20 sections of cobbles - Boonens territory, Boonens specialised race. Cobbles over which he goes faster and wastes less energy than the others, certainatly than the likes of Ballan and Hayman and Boom.

So no, he did not beat Cancellara in a tt - which is the wierd analogy you are making that doesnt make any sense. . If Boonen had beaten Canc in a 50k tt, that would be more impressive but he did nothing of the sort.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Lol. one would think that when a Belgian wins like that you'd be happy but instead find something else to get mad at. i feel sorry for you if you can't enjoy it but if you want to play this game take a look at the facts rather than promoting this idea that absolutely anything a Belgian does must be superior to anything a non Belgian has ever done


To those who take your Belgian > non Belgian logic Boonens ride is better but to those who compare the actual rides its a different story.

Cans solo was clearly better. for one he took out minutes out of the others. it was 2 minutes in no time and got as high as 4. Boonens max was 1.25
For another cancellara was riding against boonen (by his own words in great shape) hushovd pozzato and fit flecha.

Boonen on the other hand rode against ballan boom and an injured flecha. the fact that an injured flecha was never more than 1.30 behind boonen while a fit one was dangling 4 mins behind cancellara speaks for itself as to which was the superior ride.

lol, first of all, this has nothing to do with nationalism. And nowhere did i claim the BS you are outputting. I was also speaking about not only the impressiveness of the win, but also how interesting it was. So, read.

Second of all, you should again read instead of making stupid assumptions. I said Boonen isn't a TT specialist. Maybe you haven't heard, but Cancellara is. And Boonen in 2010 was not in top shape. If he ever said so, he was just keeping up appearances. You know, like Hushovd saying Boonen is afraid of him for this years PR, lol. They tend to do that, say they are in top shape when they are not, and the other way around. It's just prerace tactics. Funny you have never heard of this. Who chased Cancellara in 2010? Nobody. Who chased after Boonen yesterday? 4 guys of the same team. Boom. Flecha. You seriously have to rewatch the 2010 edition again.

 

[The Hitch]

Whats up with all these "but hes not a tter" arguments?

Why isnt Tony Martin tearing up the classics then?

Andy Schleck is seen as 1 of the worst tters in the peloton and yet he solod 60k in the tour last year.

His Liege win with a 20k solo must be the most impressive ride in the history of cycling then, because he is a way worse tter than Boonen.

Or maybe, just maybe super difficult 250km monuments with nicknames like "the hell of the north", and which some say take a month to recover from, are a little bit different than time trials?

 

[the pope]

Lol. one would think that when a Belgian wins like that you'd be happy but instead find something else to get mad at. i feel sorry for you if you can't enjoy it but if you want to play this game take a look at the facts rather than promoting this idea that absolutely anything a Belgian does must be superior to anything a non Belgian has ever done


To those who take your Belgian > non Belgian logic Boonens ride is better but to those who compare the actual rides its a different story.

Cans solo was clearly better. for one he took out minutes out of the others. it was 2 minutes in no time and got as high as 4. Boonens max was 1.25
For another cancellara was riding against boonen (by his own words in great shape) hushovd pozzato and fit flecha.

Boonen on the other hand rode against ballan boom and an injured flecha. the fact that an injured flecha was never more than 1.30 behind boonen while a fit one was dangling 4 mins behind cancellara speaks for itself as to which was the superior ride.

Don't know why I'm getting involved in this, but you shouldn't build your whole argument around the time differences when one guy won with 1'40 and the other with 2'00. It's not that big a difference, really.

 

[El Pistolero]

His LBL win was very impressive indeed. Andy isn't one of the worst ttists in the peloton by the way. He just doesn't train a lot with his TT bike. He has the engine, but not the mentality to become one of the greats in cycling history.

A month to recover from P-R? Boonen has never felt the pain of the cobbles.

It reminds me of a quote by Roger de Vlaeminck: "Cancellara would have never beaten me in Roubaix. He was tired at the Velodrome, I was never tired."

 

[avanti]

Lars Boom's Paris-Roubaix bike

Boom was running even bigger 30mm casings with tons of room to spare on account of the more generous frame and fork spacing and Giant's own team-only machined aluminum cantilever brakes. Source: [url=http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/pro-bike-lars-booms-rabobank-giant-tcx-advanced-sl-1]http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/pro ... anced-sl-1[/url]
Does this contradict UCI rules on equipment availability?

 

[The Hitch]

Don't know why I'm getting involved in this, but you shouldn't build your whole argument around the time differences when boonen won with 1'40 en cancellara with 2'00. It's not that big a difference, really.

Thats not my whole argument, if you read my post you would see that a key ingredient was that Canbcellara did that against stronger opposition. Cancellara beat Boonen. Boonen did not beat Cancellara to say nothing of the status of the other top riders - Hushovd- crash, Pipo - crash, Flecha - injured.


Its not about the winning margin. Cancellara had well over 3 minutes at one stage and took it easier towards the end, while Boonen continued to push on. Canc for example did the entire

His LBL win was very impressive indeed. Andy isn't one of the worst ttists in the peloton by the way. He just doesn't train a lot with his TT bike.

A month to recover from P-R? Boonen has never felt the pain of the cobbles.

It reminds me of a quote by Roger de Vlaeminck: "Cancellara would have never beaten me in Roubaix. He was tired at the Velodrome, I was never tired."

Thats what some have said (the month thing), but it doesnt matter, i was just using it to point out how difficult pr is, could have used a number of other quotations.

Good quote from RDV btw.

 

[Magnus]

Whats up with all these "but hes not a tter" arguments?

Let me explain. Fabian Cancellara is the best tt'er at the moment. It is thus not very surprising that he rides solo to win races. In fact it seems pretty much like the only way he can win.
Tom B is a very strong sprinter so it's expected that he just stays with the leaders. I'm aware that on occasion he's soloed away but it's not the norm for him. That makes it more impressive when Boonen solos of than when Fabian does.

Whats up with all these "but hes not a tter" arguments?
Andy Schleck is seen as 1 of the worst tters in the peloton and yet he solod 60k in the tour last year.

Not by me. He's worse than most of his GT-peers but he does ok in a TT (especially towards the end of a GT).

 

[El Pistolero]

If everyone was forced to ride a time trial with a normal bike, Andy would do a lot better. He'd still be crap though because his positioning needs a lot of work, but that has nothing to do with the talent he has(and wastes).

 

[The Hitch]

Let me explain. Fabian Cancellara is the best tt'er at the moment. It is thus not very surprising that he rides solo to win races. In fact it seems pretty much like the only way he can win.
Tom B is a very strong sprinter so it's expected that he just stays with the leaders. I'm aware that on occasion he's soloed away but it's not the norm for him. That makes it more impressive when Boonen solos of than when Fabian does.



Not by me. He's worse than most of his GT-peers but he does ok in a TT (especially towards the end of a GT).

So what you are saying is that you admit that the Cancellara ride is better, but since you have a lower opinion of Boonen you find his effort more impressive, because its him, even if the ride in and of itself is inferior?

Personally i see Boonen as a northern classics specialist not a sprinter. When was the last time he won a gt sprint? THe guy has got to by now have won almost as many cobbled classics in his career as he has bunch sprints.

Or another way to look at it is what kind of sprinter is the only person to follow Cancellara when he attacks on a cobbled climb in 2010, dropping Gilbert etc.

Maybe its someone who's skill on cobbles is being shockingly undersold here.

 

[Magnus]

So what you are saying is that you admit that the Cancellara ride is better, but since you have a lower opinion of Boonen you find his effort more impressive, because its him, even if the ride in and of itself is inferior?

I don't think the term 'better ride' makes sense in itself. I take it to mean most impressive. What do you think it means? Who pushed the most watt?

While it may have been a while since Boonen has won a GT mass sprint it remains true that most of his wins comes down to his sprinting ability.

 

[max_powers]

No, it was definitely confusion or miscommunication or something. It wasn't even really an attack, although I'm sure Boonen and Terpstra were going pretty fast. But no way riders like Ballan and Pozzato should leave a gap on a flat, tarmaced non-technical road section like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGiDP9qhDos

Thanks for the link, that's the defining moment. Turgot was going well at that point also, and the three of em looked at each other. Similar to the Milan San Remo defining moment on the Poggio when several others had the chance to go with the winning move

 

[Froome19]

This year Boonen didn't even HAVE to attack, he would have mopped them up in the sprint too. Boonen isn't a TT specialist, but he is better at riding on cobbles than anyone else (including Cancellara). And that is where he can make the difference, and did. The fact that Sky didn't gain on Boonen was for two reasons; Boonen being too strong, Tersptra doing a good job. Even when Ballan, Flecha, Boom... where in full persuit without Terpstra blocking the chase, they still lost time. The only guy that managed to fake the impression being able to do something was Boom... for about 5 minutes til he blew himself up. Flecha couldn't drop the others, let alone come closer to Boonen.

All the BS talk about if Cancellara where here, Boonen wouldn't have won. What a joke. Because the past 3 times Boonen won, Cancellara wasn't there either? No Cancellara would have dropped Boonen in this years PR. Suggesting otherwise is no short of offensive.

And Boonen didn't have to attack? He rode Pozzato and everyone else out of his wheel, allowed him, Ballan, Terpstra... to return, and decided not to wait when the others pussied out.

Seriously... wtf

Ummm.... according to Ballan him and Pozzato would have crossed over if they had co-operated I dont believe him entirely but I think you can say that if those 2 had tried better to chase down than it could have been a different story and they could have chased down the attack and imho I dont think that Boonen could have shaken off at least pippo in all reality

Cans solo was clearly better. for one he took out minutes out of the others. it was 2 minutes in no time and got as high as 4. Boonens max was 1.25
For another cancellara was riding against boonen (by his own words in great shape) hushovd pozzato and fit flecha.

Boonen on the other hand rode against ballan boom and an injured flecha. the fact that an injured flecha was never more than 1.30 behind boonen while a fit one was dangling 4 mins behind cancellara speaks for itself as to which was the superior ride.

I agree.. but you seem to be implying that a fit flecha would beat everyone and solo in second or even with Boonen

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Thats not my whole argument, if you read my post you would see that a key ingredient was that Canbcellara did that against stronger opposition. Cancellara beat Boonen. Boonen did not beat Cancellara to say nothing of the status of the other top riders - Hushovd- crash, Pipo - crash, Flecha - injured.

Again, you need to rewatch the 2010 edition.

PS: lol at "crash" of Hushovd & Pozzato as an argument.

 

[El Pistolero]

Boonen also did a solo in the Ronde van Vlaanderen on nothing but normal roads, so it's not just the cobbles here you know

Boonen was not invited to the Tour de France 2008. Won 2 bunch sprints and could have won the points jersey in the Vuelta a Espana 2008. Wasn't invited at first to the Tour de France 2009, but he won the court case at the last possible moment and was allowed to start. He got ill and had to abandon the Tour de France, so no luck again for Boonen. He got second in a prologue of the Vuelta 2009. He crashed hard during the second time trial, but still managed to post the 11th best time(was on his way for podium for sure). After that he abandoned the Vuelta. He crashed in the Tour de Suisse 2010 and was unable to start the Tour that year. He also didn't get ready in time to ride the Vuelta. He crashed again in the Tour 2011 and had to leave the race. He entered the Vuelta, but crashed again and was forced to leave the race with a broken hand.

 

[Froome19]

Boonen also did a solo in the Ronde van Vlaanderen on nothing but normal roads, so it's not just the cobbles here you know

Boonen was not invited to the Tour de France 2008. Won 2 bunch sprints and could have won the points jersey in the Vuelta a Espana 2008. Wasn't invited at first to the Tour de France 2009, but he won the court case at the last possible moment and was allowed to start. He got ill and had to abandon the Tour de France, so no luck again for Boonen. He got second in a prologue of the Vuelta 2009. He crashed hard during the second time trial, but still managed to post the 11th best time(was on his way for podium for sure). After that he abandoned the Vuelta. He crashed in the Tour de Suisse 2010 and was unable to start the Tour that year. He also didn't get ready in time to ride the Vuelta. He crashed again in the Tour 2011 and had to leave the race. He entered the Vuelta, but crashed again and was forced to leave the race with a broken hand.

Why do you start from 2008?

 

[El Pistolero]

Because Hitch asked when was the last time Boonen won a GT sprint.

 

[The Hitch]

Again, you need to rewatch the 2010 edition.

PS: lol at "crash" of Hushovd & Pozzato as an argument.

At least i have an argument, something which "you need to rewatch the video" just can't be defined as.

Because Hitch asked when was the last time Boonen won a GT sprint.

If you know waht my question is how comes you didnt give me an answer?

So the answer is...?

 

[luckyboy]

Looks like 2008 Vuelta.

Why are you guys talking about sprinting anyway? Its boring. Boonen is obviously a cobbled rider with a good sprint nowadays. He's never going to beat Cav or Greipel etc, but he can outsprint the likes of Haussler, Hushovd, Pozzato etc in the races that matter for him (i.e. cobbles).