Passive Doping

[JMBeaushrimp]

Fair enough... perhaps we're both a couple of 'tards...

Of course both a clean and doped rider will suffer. I believe the point of contention is that the clean rider is trying to perform to the maximum of his natural physiological ability, while the dirty rider is performing to the maximum of... something... his ability to push his body more than what he would naturally have?

The kicker is that the doper is cheating and clean rider is competing. There's not really any way around that point, regardless to the level of suffering.

The argument isn't that one is hurting more than the other, the argument is that one is being entirely dishonest and taking opportunity away from others that actually want to adhere to the ideal of sport.

 

[brianf7]

Surely if your meds are on the banned list and you decide to skip them (which presumably would be against medical advice) then that's your responsibility, isn't it? You're choosing to put your life at risk for the sake of a bike race - how is that WADA's fault?

The point is that WADA and local anti doping agents are stating they dont need the meds they have expert proof you dont need the meds so you dont take them or you cant join your club that you have been a member since it was formed 50 years ago. many of these guys are life members.

Try telling that to the old timers that is all they live for the club and cycling.

Who is the expert X the unknown quantity Spurt a drip under presuer

the treating Doctor is right. but why should he spend big $$$ proving it at CAS.

 

[L'arriviste]

The point is that WADA and local anti doping agents are stating they dont need the meds they have expert proof you dont need the meds so you dont take them or you cant join your club that you have been a member since it was formed 50 years ago. many of these guys are life members.

Try telling that to the old timers that is all they live for the club and cycling.

Who is the expert X the unknown quantity Spurt a drip under presuer

the treating Doctor is right. but why should he spend big $$$ proving it at CAS.

I appreciate the difficult situation that banned lists bring to enthusiastic people - that they can no longer race if they have to take certain drugs.

However, I find it difficult to believe that WADA and other authorities would claim something like that, contrary to medical advice and without reference to an individual's medical history. Obviously if there's a link or a document in which that is expressly written, then I'd like to read it.

What they certainly are saying is that, if you need to be on this stuff, sorry but you can't race because other people could use that same substance as a PED and the playing field has to be level.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

That's an admiriable position - taking the high road, and all.

The main issue I have with the premise of your approach is that it changes nothing, the dopers keep stomping, and the clean riders are left to find creative ways to deal with the psychological damage they undergo by competing against them.

My primary concern about this debate is that it lends too much legitimacy to the idea that cycling is inherently dirty and therefore the clean riders need to figure out how to suck it up, and keep smiling with a mouth full of poop.

As to Joe's idea of 'passive doping', I don't think it hurts a clean rider to be pushed. If they end up overtraining, then they need to get a better handle on what they CAN do. The psychological and ethical damage is manifestly much greater - despondency, depression, recreational substance abuse, feelings of worthlessness, perhaps an eventual exodus from the sport entirely. Is that good for the sport?

I have a serious concern that this debate is turning too much to a type of 'blame the victim' mentality. It's not up to clean riders to HAVE to deal with dopers, and to find ways to bother them while still trying to pursue their dreams.

Maybe we should be vilifying dopers a little more seriously. The German population was really fired up about how dirty it was getting, threats of not broadcasting the TdF, cancelling TdD, etc. etc. Then Zable spills his guts, comes clean, and is lauded with a standing ovation in Germany.

This can't be done in half-measures. Vilify all of them, maybe even Joe...

Absolutely no argument with that. Good points. Especially the one about a rider needing to find where his limits are. I would only clarify "that it changes nothing". The only HOPED for change suggested by my approach is that time will catch up with the cheats. That can take maybe more patience that most people have, as changes in test procedures and programs take time to develop and it's like trying to hit a moving target as new drugs/methods become available to the cheats.

I have an idea I'd like to throw out to see what everyone thinks. I did not search if this is in any other threads. Part of the problem with cheats continuing to cheat may be (and I am assuming here) the consequences for getting caught are not harsh enough... and I'm referring to the 2 year ban for first offense. Okay, so what if the minimum ban for positive dope test was increased to 5 YEARS? That would in effect put an end to a lot of careers, beause while coming back from a 2 year is possible, I'm not sure a comeback after 5 years is.

 

[alpine_chav]

Don't really understand this. I always thought cheating was part of competitive sports seeing as the goal is to win. The rules say that if you get caught you get kicked out/ banned. Therefore all the riders that are doping and not getting caught are inside the rules as are the ones that get caught but get banned. The only way to break the rules is to get caught and not get banned.

As a talented underage rider I knew that I would have to dope or forget about racing professionally. No sweat I gave it up in an instant and just ride casually now. I don't feel cheated out of a career at all and I still enjoy cycling as much as I did when I raced. What my choice means is that I didn't have it in me to win of the world stage because I wasn't prepared to sacrifice it all as some other riders are. I don't feel cheated because it's just the way of the world (in any industry). It seems to me the people that are causing the damage are the ones who fill the heads of kids with lies such as it's possible to win clean. This is unrealistic and puts riders under immense pressure when they pass the point of no return, turn pro and then realize the truth. Fighting doping is a futile exercise which is an endless spiral of semi-success. I am aware that as it is now the fight needs to continue but feeling sorry for passive dopers makes no sense. Passive dopers just have to accept that they aren't prepared to do what it takes to win.