Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[Mr.White]

He's already in great shape, maybe it's time for his 1st Milan-San Remo...

 

[max_powers]

RIght After his win today in Kuurne, Sagan's handler emptied him a handful of something that Peter stuffed in his mouth and appeared to be still chewing on it during victory interview.

Curious as to what that food was ??

His training program seems to be working

 

[portugal11]

Milan san remo is too easy without le manie

 

[ferryman]

Re:

RIght After his win today in Kuurne, Sagan's handler emptied him a handful of something that Peter stuffed in his mouth and appeared to be still chewing on it during victory interview.

Curious as to what that food was ??

His training program seems to be working

I saw that also. Obviously some sugary chewy sweets. Something like Haribos but I didn't recognise the wrapper (a sort of light brown, non descript kind of thing). The way Peter wolfed them down, he was obviously expecting them so I'm thinking maybe a Slovak sweety treat thing? Just guessing out loud...and no, no Clinic innuendos meant...

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

"This year he’s aiming for the sixth [green jersey] in a row, which would be unparalleled"

Eh, no.

Yes, it is.

Considering the rest of this discussion is for the clinic we can't go any further than that, here.

No, it isn't.

Are you ready to take this discussion to the next level?

Erik Zabel has won the points competition 6 times in a row, and he is also the official winner to this present day of those editions. If you are not counting official wins, nor who actually won on the day, then it just isn't possible to have much of a conversation about records and statistics in cycling. Should we dismiss Merckx then as well?

Wait, the ad hominem and insults are properly spelled? Poor model that is.

 

[sQiD]

Re:

RIght After his win today in Kuurne, Sagan's handler emptied him a handful of something that Peter stuffed in his mouth and appeared to be still chewing on it during victory interview.

Curious as to what that food was ??

I've just seen the video. Hilarious ! The greatest Haribo advert ever created :lol:

(after last year Flanders)

 

[SKSemtex]

Can you imagine Sagan in a team like Etixx or BMC.

His palmares would be amazing.
Good fo cycling he chose money over the palmares. Cycling would be so predictable in the spring.

 

[carton]

Can you imagine Sagan in a team like Etixx or BMC.

His palmares would be amazing.
Good fo cycling he chose money over the palmares. Cycling would be so predictable in the spring.

Agree with you 100% on that (fairly hot) take. Hard to know what his palmares would be like, with his sprint you'd think it be significantly better, but you never know with these things. But surely watching Ettix or BMC riding defensively for (what his rivals make out to be) the strongest rider in the peloton while removing Sagan as an attacking wildcard would've made for less exiting racing.

 

[portugal11]

Can you imagine Sagan in a team like Etixx or BMC.

His palmares would be amazing.
Good fo cycling he chose money over the palmares. Cycling would be so predictable in the spring.

He would have 3 or 4 monuments if he raced for ettix

 

[GambadiLegno]

I'm not agree Sagan will have a better palmares if he would be in Quick Step , BMC or a team like that.

In races like Flanders, Roubaix, World Champs, etc. team is not as important as for a Grand Tour or any other weekly tour, or for a pure sprinter. In these races teams are broken with 100, 90 kms to finish. They're exactly the kind of races in which a strong guy with no team can win, because teamwork is impossible with these parcours and the way they're raced.

In Quick Step or BMC sometimes he would have a team mate in front (could be Stybar, Terpstra, Lampaert, Teuns, Drucker...) who will be riding in a front group as plan B, C or whatever, and for sure with team advantage an attack from behind would be prohibited. It happened to Boonen, for sure it would happen to Sagan.

 

[deValtos]

Any team that takes Sagan is going to have a lot less $$$ to spend on doms.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re:

Any team that takes Sagan is going to have a lot less $$$ to spend on doms.

Yes, we all know it very well.
But this only to understand that palmares do not have to necessarily tell us everything about the quality of rider.
I would love to see Sagan riding one year for almost free in Etixx and let's say Froome for 6 mil. in Lotto. .

EDIT: It does not mean I think Froome is not a good rider. Opposite, I think he is a really great rider, especially after last year Tour.

 

[SKSemtex]

Can you imagine Sagan in a team like Etixx or BMC.

His palmares would be amazing.
Good fo cycling he chose money over the palmares. Cycling would be so predictable in the spring.

He would have 3 or 4 monuments if he raced for ettix

I think that if he rides for Etixx this year Etixx would win all cobbled races + SB

 

[sQiD]

The best thing that happened to Peter, is Patrick Leffevre saying no to him in 2009. Look at how Etixx is racing, their riders can't make their own decisions. It's better like this. He has more freedom to do what he wants to do and i preffer watching him attack from 60 km and lose rather than winning a race from 200 m. Luckilly, he is able to do both and win more than anybody in the peleton.

http://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/2378/is-the-quick-step-floors-classics-team-overrated

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

I'm not agree Sagan will have a better palmares if he would be in Quick Step , BMC or a team like that.

In races like Flanders, Roubaix, World Champs, etc. team is not as important as for a Grand Tour or any other weekly tour, or for a pure sprinter. In these races teams are broken with 100, 90 kms to finish. They're exactly the kind of races in which a strong guy with no team can win, because teamwork is impossible with these parcours and the way they're raced.

In Quick Step or BMC sometimes he would have a team mate in front (could be Stybar, Terpstra, Lampaert, Teuns, Drucker...) who will be riding in a front group as plan B, C or whatever, and for sure with team advantage an attack from behind would be prohibited. It happened to Boonen, for sure it would happen to Sagan.

Thats not true. Sagan's team is broke with 100 km to the finish but good teams aren't. But last years PR was the perfect example for how important teams are in cobbles races. Or looks at Cancellaras last spring campaign. He was in a superb shape but because he had a weak team he was eliminated both in PR and the Ronde before he could even show his strength.

 

[Keram]

Re: Re:

RIght After his win today in Kuurne, Sagan's handler emptied him a handful of something that Peter stuffed in his mouth and appeared to be still chewing on it during victory interview.

Curious as to what that food was ??

I've just seen the video. Hilarious ! The greatest Haribo advert ever created :lol:

(after last year Flanders)

I bought Haribo gummy bears to my night shift this evening. Advert worked on my subconciousness :lol:

 

[Netserk]

^^The Ronde example is not the best...

 

[sQiD]

Caley Fretz (Velonews) : Maybe Peter lost Omloop in purpose in order to avoid it's Curse (never a winner at omloop won the Flanders in the same year) ... maybe

 

[SKSemtex]

Re:

Caley Fretz (Velonews) : Maybe Peter lost Omloop in purpose in order to avoid it's Curse (never a winner at omloop won the Flanders in the same year) ... maybe

It looks like he likes to ride against the curse

 

[GambadiLegno]

Re: Re:

I'm not agree Sagan will have a better palmares if he would be in Quick Step , BMC or a team like that.

In races like Flanders, Roubaix, World Champs, etc. team is not as important as for a Grand Tour or any other weekly tour, or for a pure sprinter. In these races teams are broken with 100, 90 kms to finish. They're exactly the kind of races in which a strong guy with no team can win, because teamwork is impossible with these parcours and the way they're raced.

In Quick Step or BMC sometimes he would have a team mate in front (could be Stybar, Terpstra, Lampaert, Teuns, Drucker...) who will be riding in a front group as plan B, C or whatever, and for sure with team advantage an attack from behind would be prohibited. It happened to Boonen, for sure it would happen to Sagan.

Thats not true. Sagan's team is broke with 100 km to the finish but good teams aren't. But last years PR was the perfect example for how important teams are in cobbles races. Or looks at Cancellaras last spring campaign. He was in a superb shape but because he had a weak team he was eliminated both in PR and the Ronde before he could even show his strength.

And Sagan won Flanders with no team. Cancellara won PR or Flanders with no team. Flecha was always in the top with no team. Turgot was 2nd with no team (Turgot!!), etc...In these races if you're strong you hammer down and everything explodes, it turns a face to face race between the strongest.

A team is important just in case you need a bike or you have any other problem. That's why the strongest guys attack here so far to the finish line. It's impossible to do teamwork, to control the race, no way. Ventoso explained it very good in Spanish Eurosport last Saturday in OHN. It's the pros who say it, not only me. I have relationship with a Spanish rider who raced for Quick Step and he tells the same. No possibilities to control the race.

PS: Stannard won OHN in the face of 4 QS guys... Why? not only because QS fault, but because he was very strong.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

I'm not agree Sagan will have a better palmares if he would be in Quick Step , BMC or a team like that.

In races like Flanders, Roubaix, World Champs, etc. team is not as important as for a Grand Tour or any other weekly tour, or for a pure sprinter. In these races teams are broken with 100, 90 kms to finish. They're exactly the kind of races in which a strong guy with no team can win, because teamwork is impossible with these parcours and the way they're raced.

In Quick Step or BMC sometimes he would have a team mate in front (could be Stybar, Terpstra, Lampaert, Teuns, Drucker...) who will be riding in a front group as plan B, C or whatever, and for sure with team advantage an attack from behind would be prohibited. It happened to Boonen, for sure it would happen to Sagan.

Thats not true. Sagan's team is broke with 100 km to the finish but good teams aren't. But last years PR was the perfect example for how important teams are in cobbles races. Or looks at Cancellaras last spring campaign. He was in a superb shape but because he had a weak team he was eliminated both in PR and the Ronde before he could even show his strength.

And Sagan won Flanders with no team. Cancellara won PR or Flanders with no team. Flecha was always in the top with no team. Turgot was 2nd with no team (Turgot!!), etc...In these races if you're strong you hammer down and everything explodes, it turns a face to face race between the strongest.

A team is important just in case you need a bike or you have any other problem. That's why the strongest guys attack here so far to the finish line. It's impossible to do teamwork, to control the race, no way. Ventoso explained it very good in Spanish Eurosport last Saturday in OHN. It's the pros who say it, not only me. I have relationship with a Spanish rider who raced for Quick Step and he tells the same. No possibilities to control the race.

PS: Stannard won OHN in the face of 4 QS guys... Why? not only because QS fault, but because he was very strong.

Yeah, and Sagan also won bunch sprints with no team, and Contador won the giro 2015 with no team. Maybe teams are slightly less important than in other races, but the point of your original post was that Sagan's palmares wouldn't be better in a better team and I definitely disagree about that.

 

[sQiD]

Last year at Paris Roubaix he was alone after that big crash. So if this kind of scenario repeat itself, he will be in trouble if the guys aren't with him in the important moments.

 

[GambadiLegno]

Re: Re:

I'm not agree Sagan will have a better palmares if he would be in Quick Step , BMC or a team like that.

In races like Flanders, Roubaix, World Champs, etc. team is not as important as for a Grand Tour or any other weekly tour, or for a pure sprinter. In these races teams are broken with 100, 90 kms to finish. They're exactly the kind of races in which a strong guy with no team can win, because teamwork is impossible with these parcours and the way they're raced.

In Quick Step or BMC sometimes he would have a team mate in front (could be Stybar, Terpstra, Lampaert, Teuns, Drucker...) who will be riding in a front group as plan B, C or whatever, and for sure with team advantage an attack from behind would be prohibited. It happened to Boonen, for sure it would happen to Sagan.

Thats not true. Sagan's team is broke with 100 km to the finish but good teams aren't. But last years PR was the perfect example for how important teams are in cobbles races. Or looks at Cancellaras last spring campaign. He was in a superb shape but because he had a weak team he was eliminated both in PR and the Ronde before he could even show his strength.

And Sagan won Flanders with no team. Cancellara won PR or Flanders with no team. Flecha was always in the top with no team. Turgot was 2nd with no team (Turgot!!), etc...In these races if you're strong you hammer down and everything explodes, it turns a face to face race between the strongest.

A team is important just in case you need a bike or you have any other problem. That's why the strongest guys attack here so far to the finish line. It's impossible to do teamwork, to control the race, no way. Ventoso explained it very good in Spanish Eurosport last Saturday in OHN. It's the pros who say it, not only me. I have relationship with a Spanish rider who raced for Quick Step and he tells the same. No possibilities to control the race.

PS: Stannard won OHN in the face of 4 QS guys... Why? not only because QS fault, but because he was very strong.

Yeah, and Sagan also won bunch sprints with no team, and Contador won the giro 2015 with no team. Maybe teams are slightly less important than in other races, but the point of your original post was that Sagan's palmares wouldn't be better in a better team and I definitely disagree about that.

I mean that there's no evidence that his palmares would be better with QS. Riders like Stybar, Terpstra, Gilbert, and of course Boonen will be involved in different breakaways and front groups, and Sagan would have to ride with this in mind, he wouldn't be able to do whatever he wants to win. Same would happen, probably with less team mates involved in the race, in BMC, Lotto-Soudal or Sky.

Of course, everything is possible and he could have a better palmares, we don't know. But racing in a team so strong for a kind of race doesn't mean your palmares will be better. And I think Sagan has never seen Quick Step or any other belgian or strong classics team as a preference, not only because of money, but for this same reason. This is a personal opinion.

 

[animir]

In the interview after Omloop Het Nieuwsblad Sagan asked Vanmarcke why he didn't attack. It looked to me as if he was disappointed that Vanmarcke didn't attack.

I think, that Sagan tends to sacrifice something in less important races in hope to get it back in more important races (E.g. testing his limits and working too hard...). In the past there where some race situations, where Sagan was with GVA in the same group and it was necessary to do something. GVA knew that his only chance to win is to let Sagan work harder a so GVA did nothing. At the same time Sagan faced the dilemma to do it by himself and risk to be beaten by GVA or to do nothing and immediately lose any chance of winning.

It is just my speculation, but I think that Sagan was decided not to chase Vanmarcke down and let GVA do it. Even if he would lost the race that way, it would be probably still win win for him, because he would show GVA that he needs to save some race situations also by himself if he wants to win.

 

[PeterB]

Interesting idea about letting Vanmarcke go and making van Avermaet chase him down. But if this was really his plan, he could have told Vamnarcke about that during the race, so probably it is really just a speculation.