Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[Pippo_San]

Just giving a shout. Best world champion in years. Finally someone almost everyone can cheer for.
Well except Libertine Seguros.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Today there was a race, called RVV. In that race, the best riders on the planet participated. Peter Sagan destroyed them all on tactics, flat, explosive climbs, and on flat open roads after 250km + of racing. Today, no rider had more endurance than Sagan. If Sagan is like this at PR (unlikely, mission was accomplished, been trying to win every race already) he drops them all like stones (if the discussion is between the favorites and not second tier riders, as it happens more often than not) when he wants to.

Also, Sagan's handling skills are only matched by "maybe" Fabian. He looks like a f1 around a circuit. Sagan never falls. Sagan is by far the 2nd best TTer of all of those riders that were mentioned. Sagan has been discussing way more finishes than all of those guys combined.

So let me call BS on your sad theory and quickly state the following:
It will be great to re-read this posts and your ways to downplaying Peter after Roubaix.

Call BS on whatever you want, but nothing in your diatribe actually addresses the post you're replying to.

And why are you so aggressive? Chill.

 

[movingtarget]

This win could open the flood gates. It will obviously be a massive boost for his confidence.

 

[hfer07]

Re:

This win could open the flood gates. It will obviously be a massive boost for his confidence.

Yes - I truly believe that big win in his palmares aside from the World's was a necessity to unlock his full potential- so it won't be about whether or not winning but how many of those can he achieve in the coming years

 

[SKSemtex]

And he is still riding with huge handicap -his team. I wonder what his palmarès could be if he switch to team like BMC and riding with GVA. Thay could toss on the beginning of race and have it all.

 

[The Hegelian]

Got to say, in 2012 when he was winning those bunch sprints so easily in the Tour of California and then basically picking up stages at will in the TDF, I was not a fan. Was looking like a decade or so of Merckx type domination.

But not much has come that easy since, and he has really had to work hard to be in a position to actually snag (rather than merely promise) the highest one day prizes in cycling. Total chapeau for turning that talent into something so well rounded, consistent and powerful. His win yesterday was simply outstanding. So deserved.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

Today there was a race, called RVV. In that race, the best riders on the planet participated. Peter Sagan destroyed them all on tactics, flat, explosive climbs, and on flat open roads after 250km + of racing. Today, no rider had more endurance than Sagan. If Sagan is like this at PR (unlikely, mission was accomplished, been trying to win every race already) he drops them all like stones (if the discussion is between the favorites and not second tier riders, as it happens more often than not) when he wants to.

Also, Sagan's handling skills are only matched by "maybe" Fabian. He looks like a f1 around a circuit. Sagan never falls. Sagan is by far the 2nd best TTer of all of those riders that were mentioned. Sagan has been discussing way more finishes than all of those guys combined.

So let me call BS on your sad theory and quickly state the following:
It will be great to re-read this posts and your ways to downplaying Peter after Roubaix.

Call BS on whatever you want, but nothing in your diatribe actually addresses the post you're replying to.

And why are you so aggressive? Chill.

The poster pretty much always posts in a condescending way if you don't agree with what he has written, it's unnecessary but seems to be his style.

Sagan style is well suited to Flanders where powerful bursts help get the gaps on the climbs which he showed in great style yesterday, for sure he can win Roubaix but it will be a lot harder for him as getting the gap and maintaining it won't be as easy

 

[StryderHells]

Re:

Got to say, in 2012 when he was winning those bunch sprints so easily in the Tour of California and then basically picking up stages at will in the TDF, I was not a fan. Was looking like a decade or so of Merckx type domination.

But not much has come that easy since, and he has really had to work hard to be in a position to actually snag (rather than merely promise) the highest one day prizes in cycling. Total chapeau for turning that talent into something so well rounded, consistent and powerful. His win yesterday was simply outstanding. So deserved.

I don't know, Gatto has been a great teammate for him this spring and sometimes that's all some riders need, 1 teammate to help them maintain a position before they attack, Contador has been a good example of that over the years. I honestly don't think a stronger team would of been such an advantage for Sagan over the last couple of years

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

Got to say, in 2012 when he was winning those bunch sprints so easily in the Tour of California and then basically picking up stages at will in the TDF, I was not a fan. Was looking like a decade or so of Merckx type domination.

But not much has come that easy since, and he has really had to work hard to be in a position to actually snag (rather than merely promise) the highest one day prizes in cycling. Total chapeau for turning that talent into something so well rounded, consistent and powerful. His win yesterday was simply outstanding. So deserved.

I don't know, Gatto has been a great teammate for him this spring and sometimes that's all some riders need, 1 teammate to help them maintain a position before they attack, Contador has been a good example of that over the years. I honestly don't think a stronger team would of been such an advantage for Sagan over the last couple of years

Of course it would. Probably not so big in Rvv and PR but in other classics and stage races for sure.

 

[pedromiguelmartins]

Re: Re:

Were you one of those hyping up Kwiat before today by any chance?

If I'm wrong, fair enough, I'll admit my judgement was wrong, but of course, it will similarly be great to re-read your post if Sagan doesn't deliver on Sunday

Kwiat is the only rider that can realistically win the 5 monuments. How many 1 day races has the guy already won? Amstel, Strade, e3, Worlds FFS.

His attack at MSR wasn't far off, and he made the winning move at his first ever RVV. Yeah, with the exception of Peter, he is by far the most powerful classics rider from the new guard. Funny how you didn't read the "unlikely" part.

Call BS on whatever you want, but nothing in your diatribe actually addresses the post you're replying to.

And why are you so aggressive? Chill.

Thanks for asking. I'm the most aggressive guy on the planet. I wake up aggressive, I go to sleep aggressive. I watch cycling aggressive, I answer forum posts to strangers aggressively. It almost makes me look like an a-hole. Right?

I think that secretly I have an inferiority complex. Heck, maybe it's daddy issues, or just extremely small (but hard working and amazing to watch! Like Sagan!) genitalia.

Anyway, posting at least 4 to 5 exclamation points after my POVs and winning web discussions about cycling surely makes me feel better about myself.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

Were you one of those hyping up Kwiat before today by any chance?

If I'm wrong, fair enough, I'll admit my judgement was wrong, but of course, it will similarly be great to re-read your post if Sagan doesn't deliver on Sunday

Kwiat is the only rider that can realistically win the 5 monuments. How many 1 day races has the guy already won? Amstel, Strade, e3, Worlds FFS.

His attack at MSR wasn't far off, and he made the winning move at his first ever RVV. Yeah, with the exception of Peter, he is by far the most powerful classics rider from the new guard.

So now we know whats is your two thirds of your nickname made of Peter, Michal . Now the question is which Martin is the last third. .
Anyway, good call before the race. Looks like Sagan is indeed stronger then in 2013. Although I think Cance 2016 is inferior to Cance 2013.

 

[pedromiguelmartins]

Re: Re:

Were you one of those hyping up Kwiat before today by any chance?

If I'm wrong, fair enough, I'll admit my judgement was wrong, but of course, it will similarly be great to re-read your post if Sagan doesn't deliver on Sunday

Kwiat is the only rider that can realistically win the 5 monuments. How many 1 day races has the guy already won? Amstel, Strade, e3, Worlds FFS.

His attack at MSR wasn't far off, and he made the winning move at his first ever RVV. Yeah, with the exception of Peter, he is by far the most powerful classics rider from the new guard.

So now we know whats is your two thirds of your nickname made of Peter, Michal . Now the question is which Martin is the last third. .
Anyway, good call before the race. Looks like Sagan is indeed stronger then in 2013. Although I think Cance 2016 is inferior to Cance 2013.

It just seemed so obvious to me, especially at GW when Fabian put one of these attacks to try and go solo and Peter just came around him and put him in trouble right at the top. Also the TT at tirreno, with the wind and such, and he devastated Greg.

It seems to me that the way Kwiatkowski won was the punch in the face that he needed. The shape was always there, building.

I just don't see who can drop him at Roubaix by sheer power. Either he has a mechanical/fall, he and Canc mark each other, or he eats them there as well.

Do you think anyone can drop him on the flat? After what he did at roubaix?

 

[The Hegelian]

Re: Re:

Got to say, in 2012 when he was winning those bunch sprints so easily in the Tour of California and then basically picking up stages at will in the TDF, I was not a fan. Was looking like a decade or so of Merckx type domination.

But not much has come that easy since, and he has really had to work hard to be in a position to actually snag (rather than merely promise) the highest one day prizes in cycling. Total chapeau for turning that talent into something so well rounded, consistent and powerful. His win yesterday was simply outstanding. So deserved.

I don't know, Gatto has been a great teammate for him this spring and sometimes that's all some riders need, 1 teammate to help them maintain a position before they attack, Contador has been a good example of that over the years. I honestly don't think a stronger team would of been such an advantage for Sagan over the last couple of years

I wasn't really meaning the team. I meant more that he was winning so easily in 2012, everyone expected the monuments to stack up....I certainly did. But they didn't. Until his WC win, they actually started looking a long way off, because he seemed to have a real problem finishing off properly hard and long one day races.

So that internal transition from high quality almost pure sprinter to genuine classics boss: that was quite a process. And it took quite a long time, and obviously a lot of effort. And chapeau for it. Having talent is one thing, but converting that into actuality is quite another.

I agree on the team thing. Sky and Etixx tell us everything we need to know....

 

[SKSemtex]

Well, we will see on Sunday. I will pray you are right again. It would be amazing if it is only Cance and Sagan in welodrom with enough time to play that wonderfull tracking game like the one with Sep and Cance.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Were you one of those hyping up Kwiat before today by any chance?

If I'm wrong, fair enough, I'll admit my judgement was wrong, but of course, it will similarly be great to re-read your post if Sagan doesn't deliver on Sunday

Kwiat is the only rider that can realistically win the 5 monuments. How many 1 day races has the guy already won? Amstel, Strade, e3, Worlds FFS.

His attack at MSR wasn't far off, and he made the winning move at his first ever RVV. Yeah, with the exception of Peter, he is by far the most powerful classics rider from the new guard.

So now we know whats is your two thirds of your nickname made of Peter, Michal . Now the question is which Martin is the last third. .
Anyway, good call before the race. Looks like Sagan is indeed stronger then in 2013. Although I think Cance 2016 is inferior to Cance 2013.

It just seemed so obvious to me, especially at GW when Fabian put one of these attacks to try and go solo and Peter just came around him and put him in trouble right at the top. Also the TT at tirreno, with the wind and such, and he devastated Greg.

It seems to me that the way Kwiatkowski won was the punch in the face that he needed. The shape was always there, building.

I just don't see who can drop him at Roubaix by sheer power. Either he has a mechanical/fall, he and Canc mark each other, or he eats them there as well.

Do you think anyone can drop him on the flat? After what he did at roubaix?

Cancellara, Terpstra, Stybar, Vanmarcke and possibly Stannard are all more powerful on the flat and are all more experienced on the cobblestones. They've not all been in great form, but I expect them to put Sagan in trouble when he has no explosive climbs to make the difference and no descents to recover and gain time. But they probably don't even need to stop him; so far this season, Cance has been a better sprinter after a long race (except when he cramped up in G-W), and he's won sprints in the velodrome before; if the aforementioned rouleurs let Sagan get to the velodrome, they'll probably also let Kristoff in the lead group, and I reckon he's faster in a sprint these days.

(Incidentally, only Rik van Looy has ever won the Flanders-Roubaix double in the rainbow stripes.)

 

[Red Rick]

The last 3 riders that won flanders after a decently long solo also won Roubaix the next week

 

[saganftw]

where did this idea that Stybar,Terpstra or Stannard are better on flat come from? not to mention more experienced on cobblestones? HWAT?

they might be better because they will have good day,but its not like they will suddenly drive away from sagan (or fabian and vanmarcke) and put half a minute between unless its on the back of a strong team performance and they simply keep attacking untill one of etixx guys gets away

imho there is one 5* favourite and thats cancellara,id rate vanmarcke at 4,5* because he did it before and the rest is at 4*,sagan is obviously not as strong as he is on hilly course but between him,Stybar,Stannard,Terpstra,GVA if he wasnt injured they are all the same to me

only reason why i dont believe sagan can win PR this year is because you need a bit of luck to win a monument and he did pretty much everything well in Flanders - he was in right attack with right guys who were willing to work some but no too strong,fabian hesitated at the right time and devolder wasnt strong enough - and i think he will be a bit unlucky in PR,maybe a puncture in last 50km,getting stuck behind motorcycle that killed a poor dog or inevitable lars boom puncture that will make him miss the decisive break and upfront there will be 5 etixx guys with cancellara going into velodrome and fabian wins because thats how etixx roll and all 4 sky chasers will look at each other believing they are all leaders of the team,you know something unfortunate will happen...disregarding vis maior he would have a strong chance for podium,small chance of winning

 

[pedromiguelmartins]

Re: Re:

Were you one of those hyping up Kwiat before today by any chance?

If I'm wrong, fair enough, I'll admit my judgement was wrong, but of course, it will similarly be great to re-read your post if Sagan doesn't deliver on Sunday

Kwiat is the only rider that can realistically win the 5 monuments. How many 1 day races has the guy already won? Amstel, Strade, e3, Worlds FFS.

His attack at MSR wasn't far off, and he made the winning move at his first ever RVV. Yeah, with the exception of Peter, he is by far the most powerful classics rider from the new guard.

So now we know whats is your two thirds of your nickname made of Peter, Michal . Now the question is which Martin is the last third. .
Anyway, good call before the race. Looks like Sagan is indeed stronger then in 2013. Although I think Cance 2016 is inferior to Cance 2013.

It just seemed so obvious to me, especially at GW when Fabian put one of these attacks to try and go solo and Peter just came around him and put him in trouble right at the top. Also the TT at tirreno, with the wind and such, and he devastated Greg.

It seems to me that the way Kwiatkowski won was the punch in the face that he needed. The shape was always there, building.

I just don't see who can drop him at Roubaix by sheer power. Either he has a mechanical/fall, he and Canc mark each other, or he eats them there as well.

Do you think anyone can drop him on the flat? After what he did at roubaix?

Cancellara, Terpstra, Stybar, Vanmarcke and possibly Stannard are all more powerful on the flat and are all more experienced on the cobblestones. They've not all been in great form, but I expect them to put Sagan in trouble when he has no explosive climbs to make the difference and no descents to recover and gain time. But they probably don't even need to stop him; so far this season, Cance has been a better sprinter after a long race (except when he cramped up in G-W), and he's won sprints in the velodrome before; if the aforementioned rouleurs let Sagan get to the velodrome, they'll probably also let Kristoff in the lead group, and I reckon he's faster in a sprint these days.

(Incidentally, only Rik van Looy has ever won the Flanders-Roubaix double in the rainbow stripes.)

Who? ahahahahahahahahahhaah

Didn't you see the frigging Ronde? The race where after 250km Sagan was by far the strongest on the flat? Or every other race where Sagan attacked on the flat (and eventually lost to other riders, but not any of the ones that you mentioned, besides fabian, because peter dropped them all).

And which one of them is more experienced on the cobbles? Sagan never falls, and has been winning all sorts of races since birth. Only Fabian will be able to match Peter when he goes for it, sunday. Maybe.

 

[Cannibal72]

The idea Stybar, Terpstra and Stannard are more experienced on the pavé comes from the fact that it's true. Stybar is a former CX world champion who has three top 10s in Roubaix, including a podium. Terpstra is a P-R winner with 3 top 10s (including 1 podium) in 4 participations. The two of them have considerably more expertise in the cobbled classics. Stannard's more debatable, but I still think he's more practised on the cobblestones, and he definitely has a bigger engine.

 

[pedromiguelmartins]

Re:

The idea Stybar, Terpstra and Stannard are more experienced on the pavé comes from the fact that it's true. Stybar is a former CX world champion who has three top 10s in Roubaix, including a podium. Terpstra is a P-R winner with 3 top 10s (including 1 podium) in 4 participations. The two of them have considerably more expertise in the cobbled classics. Stannard's more debatable, but I still think he's more practised on the cobblestones, and he definitely has a bigger engine.

Tersptra is a 2nd tier monument racer and might only win if Boonen is in shape. He was never the strongest at any major race in any circumstances.

Yes, Stybar is a former CX world champion and a inferior cyclist when compared with Peter on any metric. That's why Peter is a world champion that just demolished Ronde. A cobbled monument. Stybar's only hope is to follow wheels and race negatively as he always does, and hope the true favorites stare at each other. Maybe he and Tersptra can do something, but only because they are in the same team. Both are weaker on every metric when compared with Peter.

Stannard is like hincapie and will never win this race. (nothing more to had).

Vanmarcke is an insanely strong rider, the stronger of all you mentioned, that just can't hold Sagan's wheel going up, down, on the flat, in a sprint.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Kwiat is the only rider that can realistically win the 5 monuments. How many 1 day races has the guy already won? Amstel, Strade, e3, Worlds FFS.

His attack at MSR wasn't far off, and he made the winning move at his first ever RVV. Yeah, with the exception of Peter, he is by far the most powerful classics rider from the new guard.

So now we know whats is your two thirds of your nickname made of Peter, Michal . Now the question is which Martin is the last third. .
Anyway, good call before the race. Looks like Sagan is indeed stronger then in 2013. Although I think Cance 2016 is inferior to Cance 2013.

It just seemed so obvious to me, especially at GW when Fabian put one of these attacks to try and go solo and Peter just came around him and put him in trouble right at the top. Also the TT at tirreno, with the wind and such, and he devastated Greg.

It seems to me that the way Kwiatkowski won was the punch in the face that he needed. The shape was always there, building.

I just don't see who can drop him at Roubaix by sheer power. Either he has a mechanical/fall, he and Canc mark each other, or he eats them there as well.

Do you think anyone can drop him on the flat? After what he did at roubaix?

Cancellara, Terpstra, Stybar, Vanmarcke and possibly Stannard are all more powerful on the flat and are all more experienced on the cobblestones. They've not all been in great form, but I expect them to put Sagan in trouble when he has no explosive climbs to make the difference and no descents to recover and gain time. But they probably don't even need to stop him; so far this season, Cance has been a better sprinter after a long race (except when he cramped up in G-W), and he's won sprints in the velodrome before; if the aforementioned rouleurs let Sagan get to the velodrome, they'll probably also let Kristoff in the lead group, and I reckon he's faster in a sprint these days.

(Incidentally, only Rik van Looy has ever won the Flanders-Roubaix double in the rainbow stripes.)

Who? ahahahahahahahahahhaah

Didn't you see the frigging Ronde? The race where after 250km Sagan was by far the strongest on the flat? Or every other race where Sagan attacked on the flat (and eventually lost to other riders, but not any of the ones that you mentioned, besides fabian, because peter dropped them all).

And which one of them is more experienced on the cobbles? Sagan never falls, and has been winning all sorts of races since birth. Only Fabian will be able to match Peter when he goes for it, sunday. Maybe.

Wait, what? G-W: attacks on the Kemmelberg. E3: attacks on Karnemelkbeekstraat climb. Omloop: follows Rowe's attack on the Taaienberg. Need I go on? It astounds me that you're still not grasping the simple fact that RVV is a very different race to P-R.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: Re:

Tersptra is a 2nd tier monument racer and might only win if Boonen is in shape. He was never the strongest at any major race in any circumstances.

You, my good Sir, are 100% correct.

 

[saganftw]

i swear to god everytime i hear kirby mentioning stannard and his big engine i slit a throat of a baby rabbit

as far as stybar and terpstra go they have better results but they never ever drove away from anyone,even when terpstra won he didnt crush the competition - the idea that they somehow get so much better in their 30s to ride away from sagan is poppycock (obviously assuming relatively even condition on the day of the race)

now one of them might still win because he will be allowed to and nobody will want to chase which is perfectly possible scenario,but i highly doubt they are stronger flat cyclists - stronger as in driving away from other elite guy

also about experience,sagan is in the pros for a long long time now - he aint no spring chicken anymore

ill give you fabian and vanmarcke as superior to sagan in PR but the rest? not gon be able to do it

 

[pedromiguelmartins]

Re: Re:

Wait, what? G-W: attacks on the Kemmelberg. E3: attacks on Karnemelkbeekstraat climb. Omloop: follows Rowe's attack on the Taaienberg. Need I go on? It astounds me that you're still not grasping the simple fact that RVV is a very different race to P-R.

You are boring. At Strade: Only Fabian and Stybar can follow him, no one drops in on the flat.
At tirreno: Eats any of those besides canc on a flatish TT.
At e3: Not one of those has the power and talent to catch him or drop him on all the flat parts of the race.
at GW: Cancellara and Sep go through hell to follow him and keep up with him on the flat, just to be destroyed in the sprint.
at RVV: Toys with them on muurs, puts time on both Fabu and Sep on the last, flat 15 KM.

Yeah. The guy isn't going to be a favorite at all. It's so obvious he won't be a match for them. Let's just wait to see anyone of those dropping Sagan. I bet Fabu will drop him first without accelerate at all. Then Stybar will drop Peter as well. Then tersptra. And when things couldn't get worse, Sagan will be unable to follow Ian Stancapie and Nikki Secondstra.

I mean, look at the evidence. It just has to be. No other outcome makes sense. My only next post in these threads will come after the race, when Sagan is celebrating to our surprise. It will come out of nowhere.

(no need to call me a condescending a-hole. I never pretend to be anything else. I own it.)

 

[trucido]

Sagan should just not bother turning up at P-R according to some of the comments here.