Peter Sagan Thread 2011

[Lance Armstrong]

He is former MTB. He can climb very well though not with the best. I still see him in TOP 10 on Paris-Nice GC (plus 2 stage wins). After all he was 17th last year.

 

[jaylew]

I saw it. And Peter won.
Of course this stage was a bit hyped, but it was hard anyway and he didn't ride against newbies, and there were even american riders who especially prepared for that race.

He was talking about "surprising lack of talent in longer climbs".
I don't see any lack at Peters abilities and he is very, very, very young.

I certainly don't agree about the "surprising lack of talent in long climbs" either.

I wouldn't expect someone his age and his build to climb like Gesink or JoRod. On the contrary, he climbs much better than I would expect.

 

[Lance Armstrong]

shown a surprising lack of talent in longer climbs and time trials.

He's 20. There are not many 20yo guys who can climb better than him. If any. And you call it "lack of talent".

 

[Lanark]

Yes, look how I am suffering and then boooom.

He just did a little mistake there in the finish I think, and I even think he had a problem with his shifters. It looked a little bit strange.
Perhaps I have to look it again.

btw, wasn't that big bear lake stage a mountainstage and doesn't P-N have climbs ?
He crushed them with finger in nose there.
If he would climb like AC or AS, or would win MTFs, this would surely be too much right now.

Big bear lake isn't even worth discussing, he finished in a group with guys like Marc de Maar and Jurgen van de Walle. In Paris-Nice he was great on the shorter climbs, but he already had a really difficult time on the climb to Mende, which is barely 3km.

To me Sagan looks more like an improved Pozzato than a Di Luca or Valverde type rider, maybe he can develop in a Gilbert or Bettini, but I really haven't seen anything that suggests he has any GC talent. Let's hope he doesn't end up like Cunego, who wasted a couple of years trying something he can't do anymore.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I don't think it's LONG climbs that he finds problematic so much as STEEP climbs. Big Bear was a long uphill drag rather than a genuine mountain climb - nothing steep enough for an attack to gain real separation. On those hills where the bunch was attacked, that's when he had trouble. He doesn't seem to respond too well to attacks on genuine uphills. He got over the mountains on the stage Tondó won just fine, but he struggled on Montée Laurent Jalabert and on the mountains on the way into Nice.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Big bear lake isn't even worth discussing, he finished in a group with guys like Marc de Maar and Jurgen van de Walle. In Paris-Nice he was great on the shorter climbs, but he already had a really difficult time on the climb to Mende, which is barely 3km.

To me Sagan looks more like an improved Pozzato than a Di Luca or Valverde type rider, maybe he can develop in a Gilbert or Bettini, but I really haven't seen anything that suggests he has any GC talent. Let's hope he doesn't end up like Cunego, who wasted a couple of years trying something he can't do anymore.

I don't want him to win a GT right now and that was not in discussion, but he is a good climber right now. Of course not an AC, but lack of talent in climbing abilities looks different.

 

[oboy77]

Sagan is very strong. As a former successfull cyclocross and XC junior champion he should be used to long lasting performance in the red zone. He will become a big threat in GTs as soon as he masters the TTs. He will conquer the longer hills with his pure strenght an own tempo, just as did Indurain and Ulle in the past. There's no need to respond to the grimpeurs furious attacs.

 

[The Hitch]

Sagan is very strong. As a former successfull cyclocross and XC junior champion he should be used to long lasting performance in the red zone. He will become a big threat in GTs as soon as he masters the TTs. He will conquer the longer hills with his pure strenght an own tempo, just as did Indurain and Ulle in the past. There's no need to respond to the grimpeurs furious attacs.

There are a number of reasons to suspect that Sagan will not match Ullrich and Indurain.

Half of them belong in the clinic (not to say he wont do it, just that it was more effective back then).

But also both were natural time trialers. Both Indurain and Ullrich had their first victories in time trials. Both won World championships in the tt. We are talking about long itts here, not the 3k prologue where he lost to Pinnoti by a second.

Sagan is clearly not a natural tter. Doesnt mean he cant improve in that, but unlike the others its not his strength from the start. Hes a natural power rider and sprinter we can see. Hes not going to be flying up climbs like a featherweight and hes not going to be pacing himself tt style up them either.

Not at Grand tour contender pace anyway.

 

[Cobblestoned]

There are a number of reasons to suspect that Sagan will not match Ullrich and Indurain.

Half of them belong in the clinic (not to say he wont do it, just that it was more effective back then).

But also both were natural time trialers. Both Indurain and Ullrich had their first victories in time trials. Both won World championships in the tt. We are talking about long itts here, not the 3k prologue where he lost to Pinnoti by a second.

Sagan is clearly not a natural tter. Doesnt mean he cant improve in that, but unlike the others its not his strength from the start. Hes a natural power rider and sprinter we can see. Hes not going to be flying up climbs like a featherweight and hes not going to be pacing himself tt style up them either.

Not at Grand tour contender pace anyway.

2 seconds behind Spartakus on 33km, and 1:47 on the Panzerwagen with brilliant ride, is not bad either.
You can of course say that Fabian was no more fit, or net yet fit.
But Sagan-hypers can say that too.

Hype.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Why should Sagan be expected to be a GT contender?

He could be like Visconti or Bettini or even Rebellin. I can't see him winning a GT. The nearest thing to a rider like him to have been up at the business end of a GT recently would be Valverde, and no way does Sagan climb as naturally as Ally Vally.

 

[oboy77]

Tell me how naturally was Ally Vally climbing when he was 20?

When Ullrich won WCHamps in Oslo in 1993, nobody knew about his future TT skills... I'm not telling he will be future GT champion, but I think he can be one.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Tell me how naturally was Ally Vally climbing when he was 20?

When Ullrich won WCHamps in Oslo in 1993, nobody knew about his future TT skills... I'm not telling he will be future GT champion, but I think he can be one.

How naturally was Ally Vally climbing when he was 20? Plenty naturally, he just hadn't been on the highest level with it yet. Sagan is a young phenom, but his climbing style belies that it doesn't come as naturally to him as to some. That's not to say he can't still become a good climber - Miguelón was not a natural climber either but became good on the mountains. But I just don't see from him a guy who has the natural capability to stay with the best on the big mountains. It's something he'll have to sacrifice a lot - including some of what's given him an advantage in the races he's starred in to date - in order to achieve, much like for the likes of Wiggins.

And to tell the truth, I'd consider that it's better to cultivate the skills his natural talent gravitates towards and be a new Bettini than to try and cultivate skills that don't come naturally on the off chance that he might become a GT contender. Bettini's palmarès is the envy of many a wannabe GT rider.

 

[Parrulo]

How naturally was Ally Vally climbing when he was 20? Plenty naturally, he just hadn't been on the highest level with it yet. Sagan is a young phenom, but his climbing style belies that it doesn't come as naturally to him as to some. That's not to say he can't still become a good climber - Miguelón was not a natural climber either but became good on the mountains. But I just don't see from him a guy who has the natural capability to stay with the best on the big mountains. It's something he'll have to sacrifice a lot - including some of what's given him an advantage in the races he's starred in to date - in order to achieve, much like for the likes of Wiggins.

And to tell the truth, I'd consider that it's better to cultivate the skills his natural talent gravitates towards and be a new Bettini than to try and cultivate skills that don't come naturally on the off chance that he might become a GT contender. Bettini's palmarès is the envy of many a wannabe GT rider.

QFT

i think thats all that needs to be said

never understood why every1 must become a GT contender

 

[SpannerBender]

QFT

i think thats all that needs to be said

never understood why every1 must become a GT contender

Maybe it might not take him as long as Rogers to realise you can specialise in certain week long Tours. What's his ITT like?

 

[royalpig180]

Sagan wins his first career stage race. Haven't seen the video yet but seems to me he lucked out today. Just barely hung on for the win...

 

[Ryaguas]

Ahhhh Super Mario Looks pretty happy!
Great Beginning of the Season for Androni...

For Peter The Great... He is now thinking in P-N... Lets see if He can maintain the form that He showed here...

 

[Lance Armstrong]

Maybe it might not take him as long as Rogers to realise you can specialise in certain week long Tours. What's his ITT like?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/5th-amgen-tour-of-california-2-hc/stage-7/results

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/64th-tour-de-romandie-upt/stage-3-itt/results

Nice results and he was far from ideal aerodynamic position. He's gonna be only better.

 

[flicker]

I hope that Peter can meet up with these two swinging Czech ex-pats at the ToC in May.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_zPmwvQFaM

 

[Martin]

I hope that Peter can meet up with these two swinging Czech ex-pats at the ToC in May.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_zPmwvQFaM

i just don't get why do you think peter sagan is czech.

 

[flicker]

i just don't get why do you think peter sagan is czech.

Sorry, Peter is Slovakian. He and his brother bring a lot of fun and excitement to cycling!

 

[Jancouver]

i just don't get why do you think peter sagan is czech.

He was born in Czechoslovakia so pretty much the same thing. Slovaks are very stubborn about it when it comes to this siht.

 

[The Hitch]

He was born in Czechoslovakia so pretty much the same thing. Slovaks are very stubborn about it when it comes to this siht.

Nope.

Slovakia was united with Bohemia in 1918 by the Western Powers, for among other reasons to have a stronger country in post war europe.

They are different people, different language etc.

Its like saying that France is essentially the same as Turkey because they were all part of the Roman Empire

 

[Lance Armstrong]

He was born in Czechoslovakia so pretty much the same thing. Slovaks are very stubborn about it when it comes to this siht.

Not the same thing. By your logic then Vinokourov, Taaramae or Kiriyenka are all Russians - they were born in USSR.

 

[flicker]

Not the same thing. By your logic then Vinokourov, Taaramae or Kiriyenka are all Russians - they were born in USSR.

I tie the slovakian speaking people in a group. Whether they come from Poland or the Ukranian, Croatia, or Russia areas the languages are similar. Knowing the migratory patterns of humans I would think Czeck Republic and Slovakia are similar. Russian guys I know who have relatives in the new countries do not make those country distinctions, as far as Kazak/Russian etc. When it comes to Ukranian, way different story, a group set apart.

 

[Arnout]

I tie the slovakian speaking people in a group. Whether they come from Poland or the Ukranian, Croatia, or Russia areas the languages are similar. Knowing the migratory patterns of humans I would think Czeck Republic and Slovakia are similar. Russian guys I know who have relatives in the new countries do not make those country distinctions, as far as Kazak/Russian etc. When it comes to Ukranian, way different story, a group set apart.

So what do you think of the Netherlands and Belgium? Same group?

Sorry, but you sound like the stereotype American who has no clue what he's talking about.