Peter Sagan vs. Mark Cavendish. Who has the best palmares.

[Red Rick]

Anyway, overall I think it's pretty close, but right now Sagan is a great classics rider, whereas Cavendish is the best pure sprinter of all time. I'd give him the slight edge, but only a meteor strike or a zombie apocalypse can prevent Sagan from surpassing him.

 

[Nick C.]

Re:

Cavendish needs a Gent-Wevelgem then he's won all that a pure sprinter can win

He hasn't won Paris-Tours, Paris-Brussels or whatever it's name du jour is, or Hamburg all of which are sprinters classics of varying degrees of status.

 

[deValtos]

Re: Peter Sagan vs. Mark Cavendish. Who has the best palmare

Honestly I think right now it's still got to be Cav.

Sure Sagan is the more impressive rider and no doubt he will overtake him later but right now no contest.

Cav has won a bunch of sprinters classics btw, 2x Kuurne Brussels Kuurne and 3x Scheldeprijs.

Cav is up about 50 wins including 48 Grand Tour stage wins which Sagan will probably never match.

Sagan has a small edge in WC's 1st 1st vs 1st 2nd, monuments equal, ahead in green jerseys though.

But yea I think people are being swayed by Sagans stylish wins and obvious talent. In terms of just raw palmares Cav wins imo.

 

[Durden93]

I look it at it this way:
-Better significant victory? Sagan (Flanders outweighs a WC or San Remo imo)
-More significant victories? Sagan (2x WC, Flanders, European Road Race vs WC, San Remo)
-Better when isolated from teammates? Sagan
-More versatile? Sagan
-More victories? Cav
-More consistent? Cav (He's been at the top level consistently for a decade now, and he's been the best sprinter for at least 6 of those years)
I weight the first four more than the next twbviously this is just a rough outline but you get the idea. This is coming from someone who was rooting for Cav on Sunday.

 

[bbaker22]

Both amazing riders, but I prefer Sagan's palmares and skillset. I think Stage 8 of the 2015 Tour of California is a good comparison of the two. Cav wins the outright sprint, but Sagan holds onto the overall victory by a couple millimeters and an incredibly gutsy ride the previous day...

 

[Bardamu]

It will be Sagan within a couple of years, but the number of GT stage wins of Cav is just impressive. His 30 TdF stage victories heavily outweigh the 5 green jerseys of Sagan.

Sagan is a better cyclist though and still young, but just palmares wise Cav is still a bit higher since Sagan 'just' has 1 monument (of which Cav also has one) and two WC titles versus the 1 of Cavendish.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

It will be Sagan within a couple of years, but the number of GT stage wins of Cav is just impressive. His 30 TdF stage victories heavily outweigh the 5 green jerseys of Sagan.

Sagan is a better cyclist though and still young, but just palmares wise Cav is still a bit higher since Sagan 'just' has 1 monument (of which Cav also has one) and two WC titles versus the 1 of Cavendish.

But all of Cav's big one-day race wins were lucky flukes. He has never come close again in San Remo and the WC course in 2011 was a disgrace to cycling. I don't care if my opinion is unpopular, but a WC route should never be totally flat. The argument that sprinters deserve a WC as well doesn't make any sense to me... They can still win on a hilly course if they're talented enough to survive... Boonen for example won in 2005 and was 9th in 2006.

 

[Nick C.]

I don't think 2005 was hilly was it. I seem to remember in the run up all this talk about "the McEwen corner" in the final K. If McEwen was expected to be there in the final K the course is not hilly.

a little sleuthing produces this link: http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEV0kmbwZYjmEAZFlXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyMDNncGFtBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjE5MTBfMQRzZWMDc3I-/RV=2/RE=1476845478/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.cyclingnews.com%2fnews%2fthe-mcewen-corner-modified%2f/RK=0/RS=d3gd8w7AkLhwlKHgWhvjb6ditVk-

 

[Netserk]

While Petacchi was the pre-race favorite, I don't think it was flat (like Zolder or Copenhagen)

In the end they were 27 in the first group, though less than half a minute in front of the group with Zabel, McEwen and Petacchi.

However it was very close for it to be decided between Vino, Bettini, Boogerd, Serrano, Stangelj and Moerenhout.

 

[StryderHells]

These two are really comparable are they, it's like asking who'd win a fight between Jesus or a Cowboy? This is how I feel about this thread

 

[qwerty16]

Re:

For now Cav is ahead, he has WC gold + silver, MSR, 30 Tour stages (2nd all-time, 4 shy of freaking Eddy Merckx!), 15 Giro stages, 3 Vuelta stages. He's 3rd all-time in GT stages. He also has nearly 150 victories on the road, 60 of them WT level. He has points jersey's in all 3 GT's. Not really much sprinter could do...
Sagan on the other hand is way more exciting rider, and versatile. His wins are much more memorable, and I think it's just a matter of time when he's going to surpass Cav. Cav is among the very best sprinters of all-time, maybe even the best, but Sagan is on the way to enter the pantheon of cycling Gods.
So for me still Cav, but just a matter of time...

I don't know if you could say Sagan is versatile. Of course he can win on nearly all terrains but he's just...RIDICOULSY strong (combined with great technique). Which means he can ride as hard (and harder) as anyone else, as long as it's not a time trial or long/steep climbs. Don't forget Cavendish is a multiple world champion on the track and has a silver Olympic medal too. Having said that, after this year, even with Cavendish dominating the sprints in the Tour, you have to give it to Sagan.

 

[mr61%]

Re:

Not even close after this season. Not to mention the age gap (5 years).

I think the age gap is just one reason why it's ridiculous to compare the two. The Manx Moaner is coming towards the end of his career whereas Sagan hopefully has many more years left.

Another factor some may wish to consider is how much importance should be placed on how a professional sportsman conducts himself. There's no question Cavendish is a world class sprinter, but far too often he is a no class human being. As the title to Jackie Stewart's autobiography says, Winning Is Not Enough. Personal conduct to him was also very important. How will Cavendish be remembered in this respect? Not very favourably, I would suggest, whereas, for many people, rightly or wrongly, Sagan has already achieved folk hero status, as much for his
personality as for his performances.

 

[Red Rick]

Personal Conduct has nothing to do with palmares.

 

[memyselfandI]

Re:

Well Procyclingstats:

http://www.procyclingstats.com/rider.php?id=Peter_Sagan_HeadToHead&c=6&ids=140797,140768

How can one compare these two really? Cav hasn't aimed not too many Classics after all and Sagan aims for points jerseys with completely different tactics (intermediates).

 

[theShowstopper]

Re:

Cav is the best pure sprinter of all time and Sagan is similar to Sean Kelly, completely different riders.

Even recently Cav struggles when someone like Kittel pops up and tunes his form well. Cav would be a nobody if he only competed in times of Cipollini (and not just Cipo). I guess this forum is way too biased since he is british..

 

[mr61%]

Re:

Personal Conduct has nothing to do with palmares.

Noone said it did. Simply widening the discussion to include something which, as I said, some may wish to consider. Thank you for your constructive contribution though.

 

[KGB]

Now we could zip up this one and open another one Sagan vs ...........?

 

[IndianCyclist]

Cav has been unbeatable in sprints over a number of years. He has won TDF stages 2nd only to Merckx.
Sagan is a one day racer specialized in cobbles. That means Monuments, WCs, ORs. So far he is not the equal of a number of riders i
including Boonen, Cance who have dominated over years. Zabel has 4 MSRs. Freire has 3 WCRRs, 3MSRs. Of course he will win a lot, but he has not yet, the important ones.

 

[Bardamu]

Re: Re:

It will be Sagan within a couple of years, but the number of GT stage wins of Cav is just impressive. His 30 TdF stage victories heavily outweigh the 5 green jerseys of Sagan.

Sagan is a better cyclist though and still young, but just palmares wise Cav is still a bit higher since Sagan 'just' has 1 monument (of which Cav also has one) and two WC titles versus the 1 of Cavendish.

But all of Cav's big one-day race wins were lucky flukes. He has never come close again in San Remo and the WC course in 2011 was a disgrace to cycling. I don't care if my opinion is unpopular, but a WC route should never be totally flat. The argument that sprinters deserve a WC as well doesn't make any sense to me... They can still win on a hilly course if they're talented enough to survive... Boonen for example won in 2005 and was 9th in 2006.

I agree that a WC should never be totally flat, but it does not matter when we are solely discussing their palmares.

2005 wasn't a hilly parcours though, McEwen and Petacchi were considered the biggest favourites.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

As the question is about palmares only, the answer is very simple: Cavendish currently has better palmares than Sagan. However, unless he suffers some catastrophic injury or a complete collapse in form or something similar, Sagan will certainly have better palmares by the time he is Cavendish's age.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

It will be Sagan within a couple of years, but the number of GT stage wins of Cav is just impressive. His 30 TdF stage victories heavily outweigh the 5 green jerseys of Sagan.

Sagan is a better cyclist though and still young, but just palmares wise Cav is still a bit higher since Sagan 'just' has 1 monument (of which Cav also has one) and two WC titles versus the 1 of Cavendish.

But all of Cav's big one-day race wins were lucky flukes. He has never come close again in San Remo and the WC course in 2011 was a disgrace to cycling. I don't care if my opinion is unpopular, but a WC route should never be totally flat. The argument that sprinters deserve a WC as well doesn't make any sense to me... They can still win on a hilly course if they're talented enough to survive... Boonen for example won in 2005 and was 9th in 2006.

I agree that a WC should never be totally flat, but it does not matter when we are solely discussing their palmares.

2005 wasn't a hilly parcours though, McEwen and Petacchi were considered the biggest favourites.

Yes, and they got dropped.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

As the question is about palmares only, the answer is very simple: Cavendish currently has better palmares than Sagan. However, unless he suffers some catastrophic injury or a complete collapse in form or something similar, Sagan will certainly have better palmares by the time he is Cavendish's age.

But all Cav really wins is flat stages. Most of his victories are the same, some of them are impressive like the echelon stage in the Tour, but most are bores. Sprinters can win more races than anyone else, but at the same time that devalues each individual win to me. Winning a big mountain stage is worth a couple of flat stages to me.

There's many cyclists out there that I consider having a better palmares than Cav: Boonen, Cancellara, Sagan, Nibali, Quintana, Froome, Contador, Valverde, etc.

Just look at next year's Tour, there's like 9 flat stages out there... And we all know the break never survives on flat stages... Cav's record will soon be broken by a different sprinter considering the tendency to make more races flat. Why this tendency exists I do not know though... Only the Vuelta seems to deviate but even that race has more than 6 flat stages each year.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Cav is the best pure sprinter of all time and Sagan is similar to Sean Kelly, completely different riders.

Even recently Cav struggles when someone like Kittel pops up and tunes his form well. Cav would be a nobody if he only competed in times of Cipollini (and not just Cipo). I guess this forum is way too biased since he is british..

Actually if you read around, you'll see many on this forum don't care much for Cav.

 

[jsem94]

Had Cav won a few more MSR, Gent-Wevelgem etc he would have been ahead, by I see Sagan ahead already.

 

[King Boonen]

Sagan.