Phil Liggert "Voice of Cycling" equals "Voice of Lance Armstrong"?

[scribe]

Professional cycling has always been greater than any one individual. Merckx in the forward to a French book published on all the mountain climbs in the TdF states clearly that while he flew through mountain stages as though he were stronger than they, earlier in his career, they eventually reduce cyclists to who they really are - mere mortals while they continue to make and break careers. He sketches out the later failures as his career drew towards its inevitable conclusion.
It has to be observed that Mr LA is in the same situation and has to admit that time is no longer on his side and he is in the process of being reduced to what he is and this is nowhere near in sum total what Eddy and Bernard were as professional cyclists. Therefore, when he criticises Contador as he has done explicitly and by implication on several occasions, he has placed himself as a justified target for criticism himself.
It is evident that he agrees with the team ethos in cycling provided that he is the one who crosses the line first and wears the maillot of honour. Indeed, there is an "A" in TEAM & he thinks it is he who ought to be the centre of attention not his team mates. The images of him on the podium as third best in 2009 irked him endlessly as any psychologist can assess from the body language and his regards towards the victors crown borne by Alberto. His own words afterwards to journalists betray a man who was not really pleased with himself. His absence from the following festivities in the Astana team reveal much more than he is trying to allow us to understand. Thus, it is self-critical of Mr LA to accuse Contador of uttering 'drivel' and forgetting that cycling is team work of which he does neither. Mr LA should know that a good team mate would not make public comments about his team members that are transparently critical during a competition as he has done throughout the TdF this year about Alberto. Had anyone done this to him at US Postal or Discovery we can imagine the reaction from him.
Mr LA has himself attacked during tours that may not have been necessary and he has benefited from the tireless work of numerous teams on his behalf while assuming all the glory with few mentions of those around him who deserved more praise than he actually gave them publicly during his career. It is easy to go on about team work when it is all about one man winning but not so easy to swallow when the mountain you attempt to climb later in your career tells you that your day is over and it is the moment to yield with grace to the younger champion who is now your superior. He is not the only one either. There are others. Andy Schleck is clearly much better than him and once he has improved his time-trialing he will leave Mr LA in his wake on that day as he has done in the mountains.
Yes, Mr Armstrong, your day is done and it is the mountain top telling you to move over. There are others better and stronger than you who deserve the limelight because it is now their era. Yours is effectively done. Alberto has given you enough rope to hang yourself. Had you behaved with more discretion it is difficult to think he would have openly reviled your negative public acts of thoughtlessness towards him, after the Tour was finished as he has done. We can observe your actions and words during the TdF as they stand as a testimony against you where this is concerned. You have earned what you deserve. Your work for cancer sufferers may be worthy but your egoistical behaviour in cycling is not.
My advice to you is to build your new Radio Shack team around a younger cyclist who has championship potential, not yourself, and to desist from dragging us into your personality problems as you have done over the years, and the fact that you find it difficult to accept that the maillot jaune is no longer yours and never will be again.

All champions have a tendency to be self-centered. Contador has proven himself to be no different. We don't know everything that went on behind the scenes during this tour. But I have no doubts Contador expects to be treated on a different level from his support staff. If you think this is also Lance's weakness, I point to the absolute stellar performance of his team as proof that this was not a disputable character trait. I will watch curiously in future developments for confirmation of my suspicions regarding Contador and will be the first to stand down if I am wrong.

I think the post above is driven as much by the poster's personal preferences in what they expect out of another person as much as they present an objective view of a champion in decline and at war with himself.

 

[Blakeslee]

I made a similar post in an earlier thread, I just can't understand the venom being directed and Phil and Paul. The reason Phil and Paul talk about Armstrong so often is not that they are obsessed with him but that they are broadcasting for an American network, nothing more. That is the same reason we saw so many features on Garmin and Columbia, and the same reason we heard so much about George Hincapie during the early parts of their Paris Rubaix coverage earlier this year.

Bob Roll is certainly over the top when it comes to Armstrong, but he has always been this way. Bob is a good friend of Armstong's, it is understandable that he would be excited about his return to racing.

 

[racerralph]

I made a similar post in an earlier thread, I just can't understand the venom being directed and Phil and Paul. The reason Phil and Paul talk about Armstrong so often is not that they are obsessed with him but that they are broadcasting for an American network, nothing more. That is the same reason we saw so many features on Garmin and Columbia, and the same reason we heard so much about George Hincapie during the early parts of their Paris Rubaix coverage earlier this year.

Bob Roll is certainly over the top when it comes to Armstrong, but he has always been this way. Bob is a good friend of Armstong's, it is understandable that he would be excited about his return to racing.

Wow, we've heard that over and over again. And that's all fine. But, when they start to repeat lines like Contador is just not intelligent, or that the reason an Astana 1,2,3 didn't happen was solely the fault of Contador. I think they are selling themselves very short as analysts. Kloden just did not have it. And how could they sell Andy Schlecks relentless attacks so short? On the way to Le Grand Bornand, who's to say that the Brothers might not have ratcheted up the pace if Contador had not? And then Kloden would have been caught in the same situation.
Listen, they could have talked about Armstrong all they wanted to, all they had to do was keep it real, not jump on the PR bandwagon. Go to the video, they called Alberto unintelligent more than once. That was not neccessary. He's so dumb that he's won the 4 Grand Tours he's competed in since 2007. I'l take that kind of dumb luck anyday!

 

[grimpeur]

I've watched Italian, Spanish, French, Dutch, and Versucks racing coverage. Between the incessant ads, Phil's mistakes, Paul's man-love for LA, Versus is the worst coverage around. Most Americans don't get that, because they never have a chance to see anything else.

 

[grimpeur]

If it were not for their British accents, which Americans find charming, P&P would be out of a job in the U.S.

Exactly... And they're just shills for LA and crew. Why? $$! Everyone wants to be on the LA gravy train. Kloden, Bruyneel, Leipheimer, P&P, Roll, Horner, Frankie, that other annoying Versus announcer, the Versus production hacks etc. LA is their feedbag. No one can attract money to the sport like he does.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Like, was Nocentini really in yellow during this Tour??? I wasn't sure... BUT, I know LA missed it by 22/100sec, and we were well informed of that...CONSTANTLY!!!

This is one of my big complaints. Not one little shippit or interview with Nocentini, who was in yellow for 8 days. And from what I understand he speaks decent English.

Keep in mind, they are commenting on the pictures that French cameras are sending. So if anyone is over-focusing on Lance, it is the people actually filming the race.

actually it'd be the directors who select which images get shown - you know the guys who sit in the tv station with a panel of about 15 tv screens and points at which one to show when....

Partly correct. Shows are produced by a team. That team has a network manager (more than one) an executive producer, and show producers. They are the ones who dictate before the broadcast starts what the focus of the event will be. From there, the director (technical director, actually) takes that cue, and makes his decisions on what feeds he's getting from the cameras. So yes, it's the TD, but it's also the senior producers who decided we wanted to see more Lance. Even in France this was the case it seems.

Of course, I loath the addition of human interest segments anyway. Anything that takes away from the race is a bad thing in my opinion.

Actually, I disagree. IF they are done well, and succinct. You're thinking like the Olympics where we have 15 minute human interest stories, 20 minutes of commercials, 30 minutes of talking in the studio with experts, and 5 minutes of the actual event.

Or you're thinking of those snippits about Team Garmin, which got really old and were empty nothing.

I think it would have been great to see a small segment on Nocentini, somewhere between 45 seconds and three minutes. To where we could have learned more about the guy.

I kept waiting for the Versus interview with the person who actually ended up winning the race and it never happened or I somehow must have missed it. Are Spanish to English translators not in the Versus budget?

How can you follow a race for 3 weeks and not take the time to interview the victor at the end?

The odd thing, is that there are a LOT of people in the United States, or watching US television, that speak Spanish. I don't think Berti speaks very good English, but it would have been nice to hear him interview in Spanish then say "thank you". Or anything, instead, we got nothing.

You are kidding right/ What do you expect this is VERSUS a USA CHANNEL watched BY USA customers. Should they have focused on Nocentini whould most USA customers watch?
Let's see how about the China Olympics, I guess too much Michael Phelps as well..correct? yeah they should have covered the wins by the russian boxing team.

It's called ratings and LA like it or not was the news during this tour.

Yes, and no. Television stations both follow and set trends. These things are not mutually exclusive of one another. While it is true that the majority of fans wanted to know what was up with Lance, that definitely does not mean that as a result, they couldn't put together 45 seconds of footage showing and interviewing Nocentini during his week plus in yellow, or Contador when he was winning, or won the race.

Part of how a network works, and survives is trying to look into the future with contingency planning. Hence, logic dictates that Contador is going to win the Tour again long before Lance will. And Contador will grow in the future, while Lance will fade. Therefore, it's in the best interest of the network to prepare for such a thing, and set-up the audience accordingly. What I'm saying is that if Versus were smart, they would have made a more concerted effort to showcase Contador more, interview him, introduce us better to him. This way when they go to cover the Tour next year, or in two years, and Lance is no where on the radar, but Contador heavily favored to win the Tour, we'll remember who he is when they bring his name up.

Trust me, I work for a TV station.

 

[uphillstruggle]

Part of how a network works, and survives is trying to look into the future with contingency planning. Hence, logic dictates that Contador is going to win the Tour again long before Lance will. And Contador will grow in the future, while Lance will fade. Therefore, it's in the best interest of the network to prepare for such a thing, and set-up the audience accordingly. What I'm saying is that if Versus were smart, they would have made a more concerted effort to showcase Contador more, interview him, introduce us better to him. This way when they go to cover the Tour next year, or in two years, and Lance is no where on the radar, but Contador heavily favored to win the Tour, we'll remember who he is when they bring his name up.

Definitely, they are setting themselves up for a fall not promoting the new group of young riders. Schleck and Contador looks like being the tour duel for the next five years at least, Cav is a fantastic new talent even if he does make it a little predictable. They should be playing on this to promote future interest.

Cycling is strange in focusing so much on LA - football/soccer media is quite open about becks being a star but not being anywhere near the best. At Wimbledon this year there was a lot of hype about Murry in the uk coverage but they made It clear the federar was the best. The list could go on put my point is I don't think I heard once how good contador actually was all tour all other sports coverage seems much more objective than this years tour coverage.

 

[ggusta]

He was critical of Lance this year when he was part of the group (if briefly) chasing down the break that contained Hincapie.

He also called Lance's chasing down of Simeoni and zipping the lips gesture a "sinister move", though some took that as somewhat of a compliment.

I don't know that it's only Phil and Paul, but Hummer and especially Bobke tend to wet their shorts whenever Lance shows up on camera. And across the spectrum in the Tour and especially the Giro, an inordinate amount of time on camera was given to Lance. Both in the race, and in interviews. I found it disappointing that Rinaldo Nocentini was given very little attention, and not a single interview I could find, during his eight days in the maillot jaune. And very little on KOM Pelizotti when he made some excellent rides. Maybe it's because these guys don't speak (? much?) English, but how hard can it be to get someone to translate? Or how hard can it be to put together a small package showing their background? CBS used to do fantastic versions of this back whey they covered the Tour 20+ years ago. Now, zip, nothing. It was the Lance/Alberto/Astana show.

We (versus viewers who don't live pro cycling) know as much about nocentini and pelizotti now as we did a month ago. As well as many other stage winners.

But my main point is this: (excluding Hummer, who is 'just' a hired hand to help with the broadcast) the actual roll call of the LA bib sniffers is this, imo:

Bobke (who can be hilariously funny at times)
Paul (I don't know how to explain it)
and then Phil LiggeRt (I love the misspelling with the 'r', was that intentional?)

At times, Phil would almost be about to say something ever soo slightly critical of The Him. Bobke and Phil would quickly descend to save Mr LiggeRt from himself.

 

[ggusta]

Wow, we've heard that over and over again. And that's all fine. But, when they start to repeat lines like Contador is just not intelligent, or that the reason an Astana 1,2,3 didn't happen was solely the fault of Contador. I think they are selling themselves very short as analysts. Kloden just did not have it. And how could they sell Andy Schlecks relentless attacks so short? On the way to Le Grand Bornand, who's to say that the Brothers might not have ratcheted up the pace if Contador had not? And then Kloden would have been caught in the same situation.
Listen, they could have talked about Armstrong all they wanted to, all they had to do was keep it real, not jump on the PR bandwagon. Go to the video, they called Alberto unintelligent more than once. That was not neccessary. He's so dumb that he's won the 4 Grand Tours he's competed in since 2007. I'l take that kind of dumb luck anyday!

If he gets any dumber he will win all the GT's next year. If he suffers another aneurysm, he might do that 2 or 3 years running.

Look, if they aren't reading the teleprompter, they are just ad libbing from LA's twitter account. This broadcasting stuff isn't for the unintelligent. Those guys are real geniuses.

 

[balkou]

The bad thing for foreign broadcasters is that they can't be so close to the race as the local ones. In Giro is great to have Bettini in the motorcycle up with the leaders giving you more details that you can see right then, or even make small interviews on the fly. The French too! They tell you the ratios that they're using. It's like the few times that we're able to see Bruyneel or White giving instructions from the car mounted cameras.

 

[Laszlo]

I downloaded and watched the Eurosport coverage of the Giro; it was pretty good, a lot of dead air time though. Kelly had some very good comments I recall. I would've prefered Eurosport to Vs for the Tour; I looked, but it wasn't available at the sites I belong to.

I am a little tired of WCP tour DVDs- I would definitely put my money to a Eurosport based Tour DVD set- but it would have to be at least as long as WCPs.

I do enjoy the geographical trivia while watching the TdF though. The comments that Vs should've given us more about other riders is very valid, but I don't think it is fair to slag P&P for doing the job they were told to do.

 

[yetanothergreenworld]

I agree that Liggett's Armstrong-worship can be obsessive; but it seems to me like an extreme instance of his weird tendency to worship the "big man" of the peloton, whoever he may be. Back in the days when most English-speaking fans hated Hinault, Liggett would always praise the Badger's audacity ("This cheeky man from Brittany . . . cycling has made him a millionaire, but boy does he work for it!"); and then a decade later he would routinely common on how handsome Indurain was.

 

[JamesH]

Ratings

Tour De France Coverage Sees Spike in Ratings
SportsOneSource Media Posted: 7/29/2009
The Versus network is reporting that ratings for live morning Tour De France coverage were up 98% over last year, with nearly 530,000 viewers, compared with approximately 267,000 viewers in 2008.

Traffic on Versus.com also increased, up 118% over 2008, with the site delivering more than 13 million videos, doubling the 6.5 million videos delivered in 2008.

 

[8 Seconds]

look at all them words no one will ever read...

I read all of HMacK2010's words and couldn't agree more. I've never
been a big fan of Lance's. Seems like from the very first time I can
recall seeing him racing he has always had the cocky attitude.
Even before he won anything he acted like he was the boss. Arrogant.

Funny thing is if you read about him he talks about how he was an outcast
being from Texas and not being into football. (American) And how he hated
all the jocks and their arrogance.

Hey kettle this is the pot, your black!!

Sorry I realize all this is off topic.

As far as P&P I tune them out just like I tune out my wife when she starts
nagging at me!
I used to like Bob Roll but wow the love fest he has with LA is amazing.
If they truly are friends Lance shouldn't have a problem with Bobke being
honest with his assessments of each stage. But it sure doesn't appear
that way. It is almost like Bob is afraid to utter a negative word about
the Don.

 

[Archibald]

Phil even felt forced to make an excuse one day when he wasn't wearing his. It reminded me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer refuses to wear the AIDS ribbon. But instead of toughing it out like Kramer, Phil caved in to the bracelet bullies.

I actually have only the blue bike pure one...

 

[Blakeslee]

Wow, we've heard that over and over again. And that's all fine.

This is unfortunately just the reality of how American networks cover international sporting events. In covering any sport involving international athletes the American networks always spend a lot of their time focusing on the American athletes, even more so when the American athlete is one of the top stars of the sport. Someone already brought up the perfect example of NBC's wall to wall Michael Phelps coverage during the last Olympics.

I agree the criticism of Contador's attack on Versus and other places in the media was way over the top. However I would point out there was also a lot complimentary things said about Contador on Versus throughout the race to balance out the negative comments about his attack on that particular stage.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I actually have only the blue Bike Pure one...

+100! Me too. Andy and Myles of BikePure are as true to the sport as anyone out there. They used to be on here posting, but I think have gotten too busy since the Giro and Tour.

Look, if they aren't reading the teleprompter, they are just ad libbing from LA's twitter account. This broadcasting stuff isn't for the unintelligent. Those guys are real geniuses.

You'd be surprised how often anchors don't follow telepropters anyway. Even scripts they write themselves. Hard news with tighter time blocks it's more likely to follow, but even those get altered.

Tour De France Coverage Sees Spike in Ratings
SportsOneSource Media Posted: 7/29/2009
The Versus network is reporting that ratings for live morning Tour De France coverage were up 98% over last year, with nearly 530,000 viewers, compared with approximately 267,000 viewers in 2008.

This is indeed because of Lance. But as I said before, if they don't prepare for the future - a future that is Contador, Schleck, maybe Nibali, or go outside the Tour and find Basso, or do a feature on Taylor Phinney - these gains in numbers they got are going to fall just as hard, if not harder next year, and we'll read a report about how Vs coverage dropped way off, etc. Despite what some people act like, the sport is bigger than any one rider.

Versus should hire me to be an EP for their Cyclism Sundays.

 

[ggusta]

Phil even felt forced to make an excuse one day when he wasn't wearing his. It reminded me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer refuses to wear the AIDS ribbon. But instead of toughing it out like Kramer, Phil caved in to the bracelet bullies.

Great episode. I still liked watching the Verbier stage more, but still, great episode. "Who will not wear the rrreebon??"

 

[ggusta]

+100! Me too. Andy and Myles of BikePure are as true to the sport as anyone out there. They used to be on here posting, but I think have gotten too busy since the Giro and Tour.

You'd be surprised how often anchors don't follow telepropmters anyway. Even scripts they write themselves. Hard news with tighter time blocks it's more likely to follow, but even those get altered.

Not to be too picky, I mostly agree, but teleptpr reading is just a part of it, they are limited, so they have a narrative that they stick to. Part of that is boiling complex relations, such as Lance, JB, AC, LL and AK into a 2-D almost cartoonish one. People (viewers) are comfy with what they know, and the one thing every american with a remote control knows is Lance won more tdf's than anyone and he is back after 3 years off. TV broadcasters, especially one as constricted as VS, just don't have the resources nor the inclination to flesh out the nuances of teams and even less for all the personalities. Deserving they may be. (Nibali, Haussler, the cognoscenti can probably name 20 others) If the person's native tongue is English, you stand a good chance of being featured. If it isn't, you don't.

If they take it out of that cartoonish level, it gives the viewer too much to think about. A cycling broadcaster doesn't need viewers asking too many questions, we aren't talking NFL levels of coverage here where 50 channels will break down a guy's prospects 24/7. Football is 6 weeks away and you can't stop hearing about Michael Vick who's been in the graybar for a year. And he's not even that good!

Viewers are comfortable with what they know or can easily form a comfort level with.

This is indeed because of Lance. But as I said before, if they don't prepare for the future - a future that is Contador, Schleck, maybe Nibali, or go outside the Tour and find Basso, or do a feature on Taylor Phinney - these gains in numbers they got are going to fall just as hard, if not harder next year, and we'll read a report about how Vs coverage dropped way off, etc. Despite what some people act like, the sport is bigger than any one rider.

Sportscasts (at least here) is about the viewer being comfortable. I don't know a better way to state it. I doubt cycling, at least on TV, is going to ever be more that it is right now. Sorry. I hope I am wrong. Maybe technology will come along to deliver us higher quality content over our internet connections.

Versus should hire me to be an EP for their Cyclism Sundays.

Versus has started this low budget show called Fanarchy. It's pretty weak, but I'd like to see some hardcore cycling fans rant and rave about cycling for a half hour more than I need to see a couple of college girls talk about baseball. And I love baseball (and college girls, too).

Maybe you can put a proposal together for VS to host your own post race show for cyclysm.