Playing God: Eufemiano Fuentes

[Franklin]

Not my home country, Franklin. I'm not British.

Ok the Irish union and government then

And why Spain. Because it's On Topic.

Yes.. and yet strangely enough you refuse to understand that unless other countries make a deal with Spain the data never goes out. The ball is not in the Spanish court, the other governments need to ask for the data and make deals with the Spanish.

I've discussed other countries elsewhere, including my own, but last I checked, Fuentes was prosecuted in Spain, by the Spanish. And I suppose because I don't remember the dutch queen arguing for a 'go-easy' on radobank/blanco.

1. You hit the nail straight on the head, Spain prosecuted Fuentes. No other country wanted in on this case.
2. Our government (the King/Queen has no governmental role)indeed never argued for anything on Rabo... And they sure as hell didn't ask Spain for the Dutch names on the list.

Irrelevant, though maybe it gives a clue to motivations. and I'm irish, so don't talk national debt to me...

You might have missed it, but North Western view of Southern Europe is quite bad since the crisis. And funnily enough Italy and Spain had lower debt than the North Western strong economies (Hint, the crisis is more than just debt, but the politicians really don't want to talk about that).

Actually it's really hard. you need a ladder and stuff, and the saddles always too big...

Use the stirrup and swing your leg over

but where would Ireland have a Girona? Can I suggest wicklow, lots of lovely riding hills in wicklow...

Well, Stephen sure found his "Girona", more to the point, doping is an international problem, so UNESCO treaties are the only way to solve it. Just as long as we put the blame and solution on one country it won't work.

 

[zebedee]

WADA contemplates its next step. I'm not familiar with due process in Spain but an appeal looks to be under consideration.

http://playtrue.wada-ama.org/news/w...howman-statement-on-operation-puerto-decision

It defies all common sense and reason to destroy such valuable evidence.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Why hurt Spain? Serious, this circlejerk is amazing. Spain is doing the right thing here, it's almost every other country that is burying their head in the sand (Italy and France are also quite far).

Only FGL and me are seemingly able to say out loud that our country, the Netherlands, is among the worst on doping. Everyone else seems to be very happy to blame Spain.



Again, why are you so hellbent on Spain? You are shifting towards the authorities, but you forget to mention that not only were it the Spanish authorities breaking up this Doping Circle, they also instituted quite a few changes. Our beloved homecountries (Brittain and the Netherlands) have done absolutely nothing!

If anything Spain should be lauded for at least doing something.

God, I feel for the Spanish. A low national debt, yet being spit on by the North Western Europeans (who have much more debt). Prosecuting a doping ringleader and being spat on by North Western Europeans (who do absolutely zero themseleves to prosecute their rotten apples). It's easy to sit on a high horse.

If anything it's every other country that needs to get their house in order and follow Spain's example.

I agree. Certainly in relation to this issue.

But there is a dangerous thing when we use broad terms like "Spain" (or indeed any other country). On this issue they pursued even though the law (at the time) was either weak, or not there. Many other countries with real laws have done little.

But lie all countries, Spain has people who want to pursue cases, and has people who try to thwart or ignore it.
It is not a nationality issue it is as always about self interest.

 

[Alpechraxler]

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/sport/tennis/Nadals-Zorn-ueber-den-FuentesProzess/story/25255389

Nadal not happy about the whole situation. "The only ones who profit are the ones that betrayed."

 

[zebedee]

Well he would say that, wouldn't he? What else would you expect him to say?

His true form might be better gauged by the fact that both he and Murray had consistently made negative comments about anti-doping. Now its de rigeur to strike a different note, seeing as how the zeitgeist has changed. Some of their previous utterings on the issue of player testing now look ridiculously inappropriate.

Nadal is clearly unhappy with it all, not least, I imagine, because the ITF had apparently singled him out for a bout of targetted testing while he was off tour nursing his bad knees.

 

[DirtyWorks]

It defies all common sense and reason to destroy such valuable evidence.

It makes perfect sense if the point is to enable doping, apparently on a national scale with Fuentes as a key doper.

 

[Franklin]

It defies all common sense and reason to destroy such valuable evidence.

It makes perfect sense if the point is to enable doping, apparently on a national scale with Fuentes as a key doper.

It doesn't defy common sense at all, it's really logical and actually the right thing to do. For all purposes the bloodbags have no information for further criminal persecution. But it's evidence in a criminal case and won't be shipped out to non-judicial, international institutes.

And I know this will cause a bellyaching and bellowing that this is crazy. But I am VERY happy that if I'm involved in a criminal case and are not accused of criminal activities that my data isn't given out.

You guys are really easy on privacy issues and have no problem riding roughshod over legal issues.

 

[ElChingon]

It doesn't defy common sense at all, it's really logical and actually the right thing to do. For all purposes the bloodbags have no information for further criminal persecution. But it's evidence in a criminal case and won't be shipped out to non-judicial, international institutes.

And I know this will cause a bellyaching and bellowing that this is crazy. But I am VERY happy that if I'm involved in a criminal case and are not accused of criminal activities that my data isn't given out.

You guys are really easy on privacy issues and have no problem riding roughshod over legal issues.

I can see your privacy point, but if you (not you but those involved in OP) were so concerned about privacy why would they allow an outsider to hold their blood out of their control? As I'm sure you are well aware of many who store their own blood to avoid this type of issue because that is how concerned they are about their privacy. Once the Spanish Police found the blood bags well that privacy should of gone out the window as they are then confiscated and well owned by the Spanish authorities not who's blood it drawn out from. Imagine any other item you can think of that would be confiscated by Police, would they also not trace it down if they could to the person it came from? So why should blood be any different.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Once the Spanish Police found the blood bags well that privacy should of gone out the window as they are then confiscated and well owned by the Spanish authorities not who's blood it drawn out from. Imagine any other item you can think of that would be confiscated by Police, would they also not trace it down if they could to the person it came from? So why should blood be any different.

Sorry, you are wrong and "little bit correct" on this point.

The blood as a physical entity may be the possession of the Spanish State (Judiciary), but the issue is the personal information contained therein - that is NOT and NEVER can be the property of the State, unless the person whose blood it is sign's over all rights to the information contained therein.
THAT is what prevents the State handing the blood-bags over to any other entity. governmental or non-governmental.
If the athletes whose blood is in the bags gave consent for the information to be handed over, then the Spanish judiciary would be required to do so on the request from those seeking the blood DATA.

Very similar principle as the NZ Police who seized the hard-disks from Kim DotCom's (Megaupload fame) computers & servers, and tried to give the information to the US Law Enforcement - it got blocked.

 

[zebedee]

A potential clash of competing rights exists which has not been tested. Wada was represented in the case as an interested party so may appeal the decision.

 

[Franklin]

A potential clash of competing rights exists which has not been tested. Wada was represented in the case as an interested party so may appeal the decision.

I hope they do!

Because this is really an important issue that requires intra-national cooperation.

 

[DirtyWorks]

A potential clash of competing rights exists which has not been tested. Wada was represented in the case as an interested party so may appeal the decision.

Can you be more specific and provide links to back up your opinion?

What rights? Please be specific.
What is untested? Please be specific.
Why does WADA get to add their opinions to judicial matters in Spain? They cannot do that in the U.S. as they are an NGO with no crime fighting authority. I am lead to believe Spain is set up similarly. Though, I could be wrong and that's fine.

I'd like some facts to figure out the right answers.

 

[zebedee]

Read WADA's press release. I didn't attend the trial so can't comment on that.

The jurisprudence is thin in sporting matters but I think WADA may argue that a balance has to be struck between the rights of dopers to hang onto their dirty secrets and the rights of others to participate in clean sport.

Some blood dopers' identities have already been revealed so why not others? Why do some get their rights but others have them trampled on by due process?

 

[gooner]

Fuentes threatening to reveal all.

Fuentes, considered one of international sport's leading dope doctors, has sent out a list of subjects that – for a price – he is now prepared to talk publicly about. It includes Spanish Champions League football teams, London marathon winners, Olympic medallists and a long list of cyclists he was involved with.

He has also offered to reveal how Tour de France officials failed to detect doping even when they tested those who had been taking performance-enhancing substances.

"How I prepared a team to play in the Champions League," is one category of revelations he is offering, according to an email sent by his lawyers on Friday.

Contador???

He has received approaches from several media organisations, offering money," his lawyer Joseé Miguel Lledó explained. "This is a list of subjects he can talk about, but he won't do that until appeals have been lodged later in May."

"My medical relationship with the winners of the Tour of France, the Giro of Italy and the Vuelta of Spain," is a further category of revelations he is offering.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/may/10/spanish-doping-doctor-reveal-sports?CMP=twt_gu

 

[D-Queued]

Fuentes threatening to reveal all.



Contador???



http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/may/10/spanish-doping-doctor-reveal-sports?CMP=twt_gu

He said "winners".

Dave.

 

[the asian]

Guy is need of some more money. He's not going to reveal the names.

 

[gooner]

He said "winners".

Dave.

Yes, Basso being another one but that's obvious. It's probably Ullrich and he might say nothing about Contador either. The reason why I mentioned Contador is that we never had the full details of any possible relationship with him.

 

[The Sheep]

Hasn't he threatened that before, he needs to deliver for once.

 

[the sceptic]

Maybe he wants to win his appeal

 

[Cobblestones]

Fuentes threatening to reveal all.



Contador???



http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/may/10/spanish-doping-doctor-reveal-sports?CMP=twt_gu

Clearly, a guy corrupt enough to facilitate this kind of doping would be amendable to monetary incentives. Maybe the Clinic should start a collection or some other means of crowd-sourcing to have a tell-all book produced.

 

[D-Queued]

Yes, Basso being another one but that's obvious. It's probably Ullrich and he might say nothing about Contador either. The reason why I mentioned Contador is that we never had the full details of any possible relationship with him.

I was hoping for two beyond Ullrich or Basso (2nd in 2005 with 1st a DSQ) or even Mancebo (4th in 2005 not including the DSqs for 1st and 3rd).

Call it a stretch goal.

Dave.

 

[MrRoboto]

Well..The people who can offer most money is probably the ones who wants him to keep quiet.

 

[del1962]

Well..The people who can offer most money is probably the ones who wants him to keep quiet.

Fuentes stinks, he will try to get money for revealing those already known about.

If he wen't to WADA and told them the whole story for no monetary gains then he would gain some credibility.

 

[Netserk]

Fuentes stinks, he will try to get money for revealing those already known about.

If he wen't to WADA and told them the whole story for no monetary gains then he would gain some credibility.

I don't think he cares about credibility...

 

[messycolin]

Well..The people who can offer most money is probably the ones who wants him to keep quiet.

What he said. There were rumours that certain tennis players and football teams may like a lid put on this.

They say doping is playing with the devil, now we see it also includes living devils.

Do i blame fuentes? Nah. He made no pact with the devil. He sold what he was asked and you can argue about whether he broke medical laws. I think its all quite fuuny really. I am in to chip in but i think we would be talking bigger sums than the kimmage defence fund.