Pogacar v Merckx

[YavorD]

Teddy is eating Eddy alive in the poll...

Perhaps it's time to change his thread name to "Tadej Pogacar - the goat (not GOAT) who eats cannibals for breakfast".

 

[Peyroteo94]

Going on current palmarès, Pogacar isn't even in the top 5 riders of all time, he has to win all 3 GT's and all 5 monuments to even be in the discussion.
However, at the end of Pogacar's career I think he'll be clear of Merckx.

What rider won all GTs and monuments (excluding Merckx)?

 

[Charlyghoul]

Perhaps it's time to change his thread name to "Tadej Pogacar - the goat (not GOAT) who eats cannibals for breakfast".

This is a conspiracy I want to talk to the referee

 

[YavorD]

This is a conspiracy I want to talk to the referee

Better don't. He'll raise the matter to the judge, cannibalism would be prosecuted, Merckx would be sentenced, stripped from all his wins and Pogacar will turn from goat to GOAT.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Teddy is eating Eddy alive in the poll...

Most Merckx fans are demented by now and not filling out internet polls. Most Pogacar fans slightly less so.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Why does he need that to be in the top 5 when only one guy has ever done it or even come close?

I'm seriously losing brain cells because of this forum today.

I said he needs that to be compared to Merckx, that's what I believe, look how many many races Merckx won. Like I said, I think Pogacar will overtake Merckx in 10 years time, but not now.
Mate people on this forum have different opinions to you, that's the beauty of posting on here. You need to learn to accept people have different opinions to you, rather than being disrespectful.

 

[tobydawq]

I said he needs that to be compared to Merckx, that's what I believe, look how many many races Merckx won. Like I said, I think Pogacar will overtake Merckx in 10 years time, but not now.
Mate people on this forum have different opinions to you, that's the beauty of posting on here. You need to learn to accept people have different opinions to you, rather than being disrespectful.

This is what you said:

"Pogacar isn't even in the top 5 riders of all time, he has to win all 3 GT's and all 5 monuments to even be in the discussion."

I took that to mean he would have to win all Grand Tours and all monuments to be in the discussion of being in the top 5.

If you meant in the discussion of being above Merckx, I retract my comments.

 

[ashhutch1997]

This is what you said:

I took that to mean he would have to win all Grand Tours and all monuments to be in the discussion of being in the top 5.

If you meant in the discussion of being above Merckx, I retract my comments.

Yes I meant that 🤝

 

[tobydawq]

Yes I meant that 🤝

Fair.

 

[peterfin]

In another thread of Charly people argued that Merckx was more talented being a better time trialist, sprinter etc and now, when it comes to comparing their actual results to decide who is the GOAT, the poll shows that people vote for the underdog who is not even halfway the number of GT wins or pro wins. Fan votes are great but also use some logic friends! Teddy will retire immediately if he sees this. Give the guy a challenge.

 

[HashRouge]

In another thread of Charly people argued that Merckx was more talented being a better time trialist, sprinter etc and now, when it comes to comparing their actual results to decide who is the GOAT, the poll shows that people vote for the underdog who is not even halfway the number of GT wins or pro wins. Fan votes are great but also use some logic friends! Teddy will retire immediately if he sees this. Give the guy a challenge.

I think there are likely two reasons for this:
1. Most of us didn't watch Merckx
2. People are judging Pog on his Palmares at his current age (26)

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think there are likely two reasons for this:
1. Most of us didn't watch Merckx
2. People are judging Pog on his Palmares at his current age (26)

No, people really think Pogacar is the best ever. He doesn't have the palmares but no one in the modern era did something close to what he is doing.
It's rare to see a domination like TdF 2024 but he did that after winning the Giro+6 stages.
When was the last time a rider won the TdF and RVV in the same season?

 

[tobydawq]

I think there are likely two reasons for this:
1. Most of us didn't watch Merckx
2. People are judging Pog on his Palmares at his current age (26)

3. People are getting exceedingly tired of the poster and voted against him.

 

[Charlyghoul]

No, people really think Pogacar is the best ever. He doesn't have the palmares but no one in the modern era did something close to what he is doing.
It's rare to see a domination like TdF 2024 but he did that after winning the Giro+6 stages.
When was the last time a rider won the TdF and RVV in the same season?

I don’t want to say too much today.
Pogacar is the best of his generation, but there’s been many of those.
There’s lots of talk about Pogacars age, and why that makes him better.
I might be wrong here, but I believe Eddy had the same number of grand tours at this age, and also more monuments.

Eddy has said that Pogacar is more talented. He also said that his track accident in 69 took years of his career and he could never climb the same again.

Eddy proved that he can be the best on the cobbles, as well as the mountains, he also raced on the track a lot of his career, he won some things there too.

 

[Berniece]

No, people really think Pogacar is the best ever. He doesn't have the palmares but no one in the modern era did something close to what he is doing.
It's rare to see a domination like TdF 2024 but he did that after winning the Giro+6 stages.
When was the last time a rider won the TdF and RVV in the same season?

Merckx did TdF and PR as well as TdF and RVV. Back when RVV basically had 2 hills. That's hard.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don’t want to say too much today.
Pogacar is the best of his generation, but there’s been many of those.
There’s lots of talk about Pogacars age, and why that makes him better.
I might be wrong here, but I believe Eddy had the same number of grand tours at this age, and also more monuments.

Eddy has said that Pogacar is more talented. He also said that his track accident in 69 took years of his career and he could never climb the same again.

Eddy proved that he can be the best on the cobbles, as well as the mountains, he also raced on the track a lot of his career, he won some things there too.

When will you understand people don't say Pogacar is the best because he has a better palmares, but they say Pogacar is better because what he does is something we have never seen in a much more professional peloton (and higher competition).
I know you don't agree with that but this is what most people think.

 

[Berniece]

Pogacar zis better because what he does is something we never seen

I think it's this. Because they haven't seen Merckx at all.

 

[Charlyghoul]

When will you understand people don't say Pogacar is the best because he has a better palmares, but they say Pogacar is better because what he does is something we never seen in a much more professional peloton (and higher competition).
I know you don't agree with that but this is what most people think.

I don’t want to get banned for repeating myself too much.
But the competition point we come back to it again, the classics there is one man who can push Pog, in the tour there’s one as well. I don’t know how it can be said that it’s really more competitive ?

It doesn’t help probably that Merckx was a long time ago,
In Merckx time the era of Coppi and Bartali was still fairly recent, 20 or so years, and fans who could see both said that Coppi was still probably the ‘greater rider’ despite a weaker palmares. This was despite how crazily dominant Merckx was.

I think that if Merckx was 20 years ago, not so many are saying Pog is better

 

[ashhutch1997]

Just for the record, I think Pogacar will 100% overtake Merckx in the next 5/10 years. Clinical reasons aside, he's they greatest cyclist/ genetic freak I've seen in 27 years of watching cycling.
However, there's one flex Eddy will have on Pogacar, Milan San Remo, I don't think Pogacar will get near his 7 wins, I'll even go as far as saying that's the one race that Pogacar might not win..

 

[ashhutch1997]

However, if there hadn't of been World War 2, I believe Fausto Coppi would be held in the same regard as Merckx.

 

[Charlyghoul]

We need a Gimondi v Vingo poll too
And a De Vlaeminck v Van der Poel

Don’t worry friends , somebody else can make those

 

[scribers]

I think it's this. Because they haven't seen Merckx at all.

I not only saw eddy race, I was there when he learned to ride a bike !!

 

[Trakl]

Hi forum,

I found this place six months (the Mou stuff) and I find it amazing. The different characters you guys have and the insights on racing.

I created an account especially for this, because I believe there is a clearcut top 3 ever, also in a clear order, and I must admit I am not too convinced by the arguments trying to show there are others cracking in. Also, I am talking about the more or less televised era, so since mid-1960s, not the Miroir des Sports / radio type of transmission.

It's, Merckx, Hinault then Pogacar. The bloodline between the three is clear and really shines red above any other.

I find it strange that Hinault seems often overlooked, or at least not discussed, especially given the pure strength and fear he conveyed to the opponents in his best years. He was basically a brutal leader and as agressive as his big brother and their incenstuous son. His feats are mythical: he won NBN 1980, and the following year Roubaix sprinting against De Vlaeminck and Moser (with the World's jersey); being first and foremost: a 10/10 GT-hit man. His last tours with LeMond are so dramatic and full of veinous will to win; much like Anquetil he was hated by the French and never was quite the national hero, mostly because he was so blatantly sans faiblesse riding. Obviously he wasn't as good as Pogacar in one-day racing; still, he won five monuments in a competitive era.

Now, it's very clear also that Pogacar, in my time of watching cycling, is comparable to no one. He transforms the sport the way Jokic transforms basketball. I believe next year he could already overtake Hinault if he wins Roubaix and a Vuelta. What really stands out, much like with Merckx, is his winning rate in Monuments (9/19). By the end of his career, I hope he can be called Merckx's equal.

About the comparing eras: to me, you have to compare three factors (I don't buy too much into the weaker era stuff, although the larger pool is potentially a thing). The palmares, the feeling of the peloton, and the feeling among viewers. Reading a few biographies and recounts of pre-1990s time (which is less visually documented), it's striking that Hinault and Merckx were lords in the peloton, that everybody looked at like gods amongst children. Although Hinault did not have the same feeling of inevitability for viewers in one-day racing, he was still a clear top 5 rider (!) in his generation. And most importantly, he won and lost very big in dramatic conditions, which enhances the gut feeling of peloton/viewers, like with Poggie. I don't think people can seriously say Anquetil, Coppi or Bartali are as strong: they simply lack racing days and/or classics and GT achievements compared to Merckx and Hinault.

So I think right now Hinault is still a bit over Poggie; potentially by the end of next year Teddy will have overtaken him due to Classics success and completing the Grand Tour treble.

 

[yaco]

We need a Gimondi v Vingo poll too
And a De Vlaeminck v Van der Poel

Don’t worry friends , somebody else can make those

No need for De Vlaeminck poll. Every one knows De Vlaeminck is the greatest of all time and if you forget, he will remind you.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Pogacar and Merckx are pretty much in sync when it comes to points on Prestigelisten, which is probably the best ranking system available.