Pogacar vs Contador, who has the best career now?

[Devil's Elbow]

Contador still has a slight edge for now, would be surprised if Pogacar isn't firmly ahead this time next year though.

 

[Netserk]

In the context of these two riders, I do not find a Vuelta or Giro to be worth more or be more important than a monument.

Would Pogi's season have been better if he had won the Vuelta instead of Lombardia? Clearly so.

 

[Bolder]

Pogacar has packed one of the best modern palmares into just 5 seasons.

 

[Nick2413]

Currently Contador, 3 of each GT is better than Pog’s palmares for now.

 

[scribers]

I think in their prime pog would have his hands full dealing with contador in a mountain stage

 

[saunaking]

I think in their prime pog would have his hands full dealing with contador in a mountain stage

In a stage? Pog has already won far more tour stages than Alberto ever did

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

No way to know, but I think 2009 Contador would beat Pogi in the Tour and maybe even Vingegaard. But Pogi has had the equivalent of Contador’s superior Pre-ban career (2007-2011 vs. roughly 2019-2023) at this point. After 5 years into Contador’s respective reign at or near the top, he only won 2 Vueltas, a Giro, and some lesser stage races.


So if you look at years into peak performance, which IMO is a likelier determinant of where they are in their respective careers, Contador would have 2 (3) Tours, 1 Giro, 1 Vuelta vs Pogi’s 2 Tours, 3 Lombardia’s, 1 RVV, and 1 Liege. Pogi has the numbers, but Contador has the bigger wins IMO (GT bias). But Pogi also has better second tier wins and more stage wins.

I’m shocked how many more stage wins in the Tour Pogi has, I guess because Contador typically either won with true panache or a display of dominance, vs. Pogi can do that plus our kick small groups.

 

[proffate]

Currently Contador, 3 of each GT is better than Pog’s palmares for now.

Contador does not have 3 of each GT, and after his oddly short break he was not near the same level, which to my mind casts shade on the results he did get to keep.

 

[Froome]

No way to know, but I think 2009 Contador would beat Pogi in the Tour and maybe even Vingegaard. But Pogi has had the equivalent of Contador’s superior Pre-ban career (2007-2011 vs. roughly 2019-2023) at this point. After 5 years into Contador’s respective reign at or near the top, he only won 2 Vueltas, a Giro, and some lesser stage races.


So if you look at years into peak performance, which IMO is a likelier determinant of where they are in their respective careers, Contador would have 2 (3) Tours, 1 Giro, 1 Vuelta vs Pogi’s 2 Tours, 3 Lombardia’s, 1 RVV, and 1 Liege. Pogi has the numbers, but Contador has the bigger wins IMO (GT bias). But Pogi also has better second tier wins and more stage wins.

I’m shocked how many more stage wins in the Tour Pogi has, I guess because Contador typically either won with true panache or a display of dominance, vs. Pogi can do that plus our kick small groups.

If we compare the numbers that contador produced in the tour 2009 with the numbers that pogacar but specially vingegaard produced this year, contador 2009 would have no chance, but like i said, it's not a fair comparation, because contador in his prime in 2023 would do better numbers than his prime in 2009.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

@Froome Do you have numbers comparing Verbier to this year’s performances? I don’t think I’ve seen those. Agree that times should be faster now assuming all of this investment in technology and expertise is yielding even some positive gains.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If we compare the numbers that contador produced in the tour 2009 with the numbers that pogacar but specially vingegaard produced this year, contador 2009 would have no chance, but like i said, it's not a fair comparation, because contador in his prime in 2023 would do better numbers than his prime in 2009.

I think Contador 2009 was the strongest guy between the Armstrong era and the current time. I would say that peak Pogacar and peak Contador would be very close at a GT. Vingegaard is the best in the last 18 years though.

 

[scribers]

There was some spanish Contador superfan that used to post 24/7 here a long time ago, in defense of contador. Clearly not still around as they aren't all over this thread.

 

[scribers]

I think Contador 2009 was the strongest guy between the Armstrong era and the current time. I would say that peak Pogacar and peak Contador would be very close at a GT. Vingegaard is the best in the last 18 years though.

Vingo is just a one month racer with a ridiculously strong team. I am not ready to call him over other winners just yet.

 

[Netserk]

I think Contador 2009 was the strongest guy between the Armstrong era and the current time. I would say that peak Pogacar and peak Contador would be very close at a GT. Vingegaard is the best in the last 18 years though.

25 years is closer.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Vingo is just a one month racer with a ridiculously strong team. I am not ready to call him over other winners just yet.

Lol, please. The guy won Itzulia and Dauphiné (yes, against meh fields, but also by a country mile both times which cancels that out) this year too, and would have had a great shot at winning the Vuelta had he and Kuss been on different teams. That's four separate months. And I'm saying this as someone who thinks his Velo d'Or win was laughable.

 

[scribers]

He's won two GT's and a handful of one week races. Not the greatest GT rider in the last decades as suggested. Lots and lots of other July racers did similar schedules.

 

[houtdffan]

Contador won 2 giros without even winning a stage

He was not like Pog in that regard. He did not seem to care about stage wins. Only the overall mattered

 

[Krzysztof_O]

He's won two GT's and a handful of one week races. Not the greatest GT rider in the last decades as suggested. Lots and lots of other July racers did similar schedules.

The talk regarding Contador vs current guys wasn't about GT achievements. Surely Contador and Froome should be considered greater: they are still light years ahead of both Vingo and Pogacar in terms of GT wins. It was about the level of performance, which since 2020 is stratospherical when it comes to the Tour winner. Pogacar was already considered one of the best stage-racers of the current century (in terms of level) but Vingo upped it even more.

 

[scribers]

The thread is more about about career achievement between Contador and Pog. I don't know why you mentioned Vingo at all, as he certainly doesn't have the better career than Contador.

 

[Netserk]

The thread is more about about career achievement between Contador and Pog.

It was about achievements until someone decided to make a point about performances:

I think in their prime pog would have his hands full dealing with contador in a mountain stage

 

[Froome]

@Froome Do you have numbers comparing Verbier to this year’s performances? I don’t think I’ve seen those. Agree that times should be faster now assuming all of this investment in technology and expertise is yielding even some positive gains.

The performance on verbier was a very famous performance very talked here.
If we compare, verbier was 6.72 w/kg in 20 min and 30 s.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1111750462859038720

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1111750462859038720


You can see that here.

ChronosWatts.com

chronoswatts.com Chronos et simulations en Watts des grandes performances cyclistes dans les ascensions mythiques des Grands Tours.

www.chronoswatts.com

Vingegaard did 7/7.1 w/kg by frederic portoleau calculations, during 16 min and 30 s in the steepest section.
With the non steepest section he did 6.8/6.9 w/kg durinh 21 minutes.


The problem is that there are very differences, not just in technology, nutrition, training, but the verbier stage was a unipuerto stage, marie blanque stage was more though and raced in a hard way.

 

[AmRacer]

Change the title to, 'Who in the peloton has currently a better career than Contador?'

 

[scribers]

25 years is closer.

Vingo is not as good as that chit in the 90's

 

[Cookster15]

Difficult to discuss those performances outside The Clinic.

Lemond estimated Contador’s 2009 Verbier performance as requiring a relative Vo2 max of 100.

Vingegaard’s dad claimed he had a 103 Vo2 max after his unbelievable stage 16 TT demolition.

Officially, the highest relative Vo2 max recorded by any athlete (cross country skier) is 97. Make of this what you will.

 

[scribers]

Vingo might not even be the best Danish winner??