Political influence to protect dopers

[dolophonic]

Race Radio and the Hog.. Don't make us start a new thread to keep you here.. we will do it ! you are very appreciated and help make this an interesting forum.

 

[the big ring]

Here is my letter to Senator Feinstein. I'm sending a similar one to Senator Boxer.

You, sir, are the definition of articulate. The tone of the letter was perfectly informational without a hint of condescension, arrogance or alarmism.

Chapeau.

Not all pros had to leave school before 16 I take it?

I'd write one too but think the US senators care little for Aussie sentiment.

 

[Tinman]

It is difficult to find the right balance of too many threads on one topic and one massive thread. If users will be more careful about opening new threads, it will be easier for all of us.

Susan

Mods any chance creating a part of the forum, or separate thread(s) that allows posting by "qualified" posters only, you know who they are, and read access only by others. You have built a site which is contributing to the change in cycling we need, a place where one gets the critical questions asked and some real inside scoop. As well you have created a commercial asset. Please don't allow those with possible alterior motives or other plain idiots to ruin this for you and us.

Qualification can be by identity (you as admins knowing who the poster is and the identity qualifying the poster), or by post quality over time. I'm sure you can think of other criteria.

You may also consider more active moderation, the forum is one of your major assets, the community you have created. If one had Omerta ambitions your forum would be one of the first targets, ie clog it with heaps of ****. Easy to do, create lots of identities, some with ambiguous styles, and just drown out all the good threads over time...

Please find a better way.

Yours truly, a simple cycling fan who wants to be informed (and ask questions) beyond the average journo contributions in the main stream media. Thanks.

 

[ElChingon]

You, sir, are the definition of articulate. The tone of the letter was perfectly informational without a hint of condescension, arrogance or alarmism.

Chapeau.

Not all pros had to leave school before 16 I take it?

I'd write one too but think the US senators care little for Aussie sentiment.

Don't let that hold you back, most senators might think Aussie is short for a US Tribe with political clout to affect their re-election

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

I too might leave here soon.

Well make your mind up soon, old chap. I'm not sure I can stand the suspense!

 

[Microchip]

Mods any chance creating a part of the forum, or separate thread(s) that allows posting by "qualified" posters only, you know who they are, and read access only by others. You have built a site which is contributing to the change in cycling we need, a place where one gets the critical questions asked and some real inside scoop. As well you have created a commercial asset. Please don't allow those with possible alterior motives or other plain idiots to ruin this for you and us.

Splendid idea! RR, if you and other trustworthy sources leave for twitter (or other incomprehensible online media) ... I may ... have to stop pelotooning! No motivation! Will stay around the house, brooding, eating, putting on size...

 

[JA.Tri]

You, sir, are the definition of articulate. The tone of the letter was perfectly informational without a hint of condescension, arrogance or alarmism.

Chapeau.

Not all pros had to leave school before 16 I take it?

I'd write one too but think the US senators care little for Aussie sentiment.

Ditto.

The shame of it is, that this has significance to cycling...globally!

 

[Pazuzu]

I know Americans may have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that the entire Universe doesn't revolve around them, but this is pretty much 'fait a compli'.

All the political wrangling in the world isn't going to help him...

I hope you're right. As an American surrounded by the inanity of the pro-Lance stance, I'm somewhat curious as to how this thing is playing outside of the USA. Would there be an uproar if the UCI, after reviewing USADA's report (assuming it contains the detail we expect), refused to go along with USADA's stripping of Lance's 7 TdF titles? Or would people merely shrug it off as 'business as usual'?

 

[silverrocket]

Mods any chance creating a part of the forum, or separate thread(s) that allows posting by "qualified" posters only, you know who they are, and read access only by others. You have built a site which is contributing to the change in cycling we need, a place where one gets the critical questions asked and some real inside scoop. As well you have created a commercial asset. Please don't allow those with possible alterior motives or other plain idiots to ruin this for you and us.

Qualification can be by identity (you as admins knowing who the poster is and the identity qualifying the poster), or by post quality over time. I'm sure you can think of other criteria.

You may also consider more active moderation, the forum is one of your major assets, the community you have created. If one had Omerta ambitions your forum would be one of the first targets, ie clog it with heaps of ****. Easy to do, create lots of identities, some with ambiguous styles, and just drown out all the good threads over time...

Please find a better way.

Yours truly, a simple cycling fan who wants to be informed (and ask questions) beyond the average journo contributions in the main stream media. Thanks.

I agree that something should be done. I've been a lurker on the forum since back when Race Radio had a girl's name and had to change it because guys kept flirting with him, and I have noticed a suspicious change in forum activity as Lance's troubles have escalated. Something is rotten in the state of the CN forum.

That said, the first suggested idea is terrible, in my opinion. It is not a forum if only "qualified" people are allowed to post, and how on earth would moderators judge who was qualified or not? Auditions? CV? Forums are meant to give all people a chance to participate in a free discussion, regardless of how poorly informed, inadequately expressed, or biased those opinions are. This means we have to take the TheHog's along with the Livestrong employees. Moderators are there to make sure everybody follows the rules, but it is up to all of us to simply not allow threads to be bogged down and derailed, just as we would do in a regular conversation.

 

[Tinman]

I agree that something should be done.

in agreement. I am not not precious abut execution. But there needs to be an execution that keeps things focused - i suspect you will only get that by qualifying posters. The rest of the forum can still be used as is by all. If you have better suggestions post them.

how on earth would moderators judge who was qualified or not? Auditions? CV?

by invitation by CN perhaps? Some of these guys are VIPs in the game, just like airlines/hotel chains run VIP programs. Riff raff in cattle class please (myself included). CN knows who they are, and they themselves know. They have been here for years. We need to protect them for the bigger cause, to allow them to help clean up this corrupt mess for our kids .

it is up to all of us to simply not allow threads to be bogged down and derailed, just as we would do in a regular conversation

sorry but a little naive. There are those posting here who have other objectives, ie to have this conversation broken up (I wonder why), and some that are simply stupid and/or need an off line social life

 

[Tinman]

I guess if CN is not interested there's always the opportunity for someone to set up a separate "post by invitation, read for interest" forum...

 

[Tinman]

sorry for 3rd post in a row. Wanted to clarify the intent.

Suggestion is to only have a small part of the forum, a few threads, with VIP "post" and general public "read" access. If non-VIPs want to comment they can do so in general threads. VIP's can pick up comments from general threads and re-post these in theirs, or indeed post in general threads.

In the off line world you can also not partake in many VIP conversations... And by the way, I hate the selectivity of a "VIP" concept, but it's not the point.

And I would suggest we get over the "general everyone's forum" idealism. Most forums don't work because of the huge amount of **** on them. The clinic I suspect has been a fairly select hang out until recently, but it's now likely to be targeted (another conspiracy theory right!), certainly having an increase in readership/active posts (I suspect).

So do something rapidly or lose it. Suggestions welcomed, opinion only much less worthwhile...

 

[knewcleardaze]

I did not know that USADA claims to have the power to discipline athletes from all over the world and revoke athletic championships won in the United States and internationally.

 

[Microchip]

...Suggestion is to only have a small part of the forum, a few threads, with VIP "post" and general public "read" access. If non-VIPs want to comment they can do so in general threads. VIP's can pick up comments from general threads and re-post these in theirs, or indeed post in general threads...

Exactly! We (the economy class) can use the thread for reference and would be free to discuss the content in an oversized thread of our own. Point is, good information will keep on coming.

 

[131313]

I know Americans may have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that the entire Universe doesn't revolve around them, but this is pretty much 'fait a compli'.

I think you're missing the bigger picture here. How many independent anti-doping agencies are actually doing anything about doping? You can take anti-American swipes if you want, but frankly I don't see anyone else besides the AFDL possibly CONI actually doing anything to combat doping. It's not that "the world revolves around America", it's that there are precious few organizations out there that have the will to actually pursue dopers, regardless of who they are. USADA is one of those organizations, and declaring war on them is potentially a massive threat to any chance of the doping problem being curbed in the sport of cycling. Of course, I guess we could always wait for Belgium to step up, or better yet, the UCI...

 

[Oldman]

So, in all the furor over the "outrageous" actions of USADA, and the ridiculous efforts of politicians and others to protect the "constitutional rights" of an "American Hero" has anyone pointed out to any of these genii that USADA is their entry into the WADA code, and without that the US of A isn't getting into the Olympics ??

I suppose that would be grounds for sending cruise missiles into Lausanne?

Idiots need to actually think once in a while.

You are talking about American politicians. The shelf life of their interest in Lance's case and USADA in general is proportionate to how distasteful the information is. It is very bad and getting worse to be a defender; bear in mind also that some of these Pols are very liberal. They will provoke an equal response from the opposing side if it becomes too much of an issue.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

For the topic at hand, I can't see it getting that far. Politicians think paramount about their own survival above all else, and that means getting re-elected. Once they look into this at all they'll see that Armstrong is a solid lead anchor they won't want their ship attached to.

As to the sub topic. There's no reason to depart guys just because some people are outwardly critical and want to play mod without being one. We might not act as quickly as some of you like, but in the end I think we do a pretty good job of keeping things straight, and value the posters who have offered great information and insight through the years. If one of you have a serious inquiry, bring it up with one of us through PM. We try to keep an open mind and are not hard to find.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

You are talking about American politicians. The shelf life of their interest in Lance's case and USADA in general is proportionate to how distasteful the information is. It is very bad and getting worse to be a defender; bear in mind also that some of these Pols are very liberal. They will provoke an equal response from the opposing side if it becomes too much of an issue.

It concerns me that these politicians are apparently Liberal.

The recent Armstrong "waste of taxpayer money" and the anti-French, anti-Government comments from the chorus of the deluded online seem to me to be far more tea party than California democrat.

Defending a dishonest multi millionaire against a small do-gooder govt agency doesn't strike me as a liberal position.

 

[Bushranger]

As far as I am concerned, this letter is a good thing. The USADA will be forced to bury Armstrong with the evidence, and sooner rather than later. It needs to stop the snowball from gathering speed and mass.

I have been worried the USADA will write a thin document explaining Armstrong's ban that will be mostly conclusions. Armstrong's PR campaign and some foolish legislators buying into it will force the USADA's hand. They will have to provide more than conclusions.

One of the more surprising things is that Armstrong is going down this route, especially at this time. He should have waited a while and stuck with the unfair/unconstitutional system argument until the USADA process played out. Then he could attack whatever evidence came to light. By going with the "there is no evidence" line, he is forcing the USADA to release more information than they might have and release it quicker.

I agree. Why is Armstrong doing it this way? I don't know..but I like it. Burry him in the evidence. I can't wait!!

 

[Cycle Chic]

Race Radio and the Hog.. Don't make us start a new thread to keep you here.. we will do it ! you are very appreciated and help make this an interesting forum.

Hey dont forget Mrs Murphy !!

 

[LauraLyn]

It concerns me that these politicians are apparently Liberal.

The recent Armstrong "waste of taxpayer money" and the anti-French, anti-Government comments from the chorus of the deluded online seem to me to be far more tea party than California democrat.

Defending a dishonest multi millionaire against a small do-gooder govt agency doesn't strike me as a liberal position.

My sense is that the Armstrong affair cuts across party lines and it hasn't become a democrat vs. republican issue. He has supporters and detractors on both sides: in government, in the press, and among the public. What is at stake for everyone is this idea of "an American hero."

I think it is clear now who is wasting tax payers money. Lance's antics in the Federal court in Austin (even if he did have to pay USADA costs, the taxpayer pays the judges, the clercks, the security, the building . . . ) and all this political mumble-jumble (hourly rate of a politician to the tax payers) shows who wastes our money. (Not to mention all the postage stamps we bought so Lance could enjoy the French Alps.)

 

[ebandit]

chic

and don't forget cycle chic...........................all posters can offer value and insight

the last thing the forum needs is some posters having official nod that their thoughts count for more than others

any word on lance / uci going to cas? as sooner or later pro lance politicians will realise that popular opinion is shifting against lance as more evidence emerges

these politicians will drop lance as soon as they think that there are no votes
in it

 

[LauraLyn]

As far as I am concerned, this letter is a good thing. The USADA will be forced to bury Armstrong with the evidence. . . .

One of the more surprising things is that Armstrong is going down this route, especially at this time. He should have waited a while and stuck with the unfair/unconstitutional system argument until the USADA process played out. Then he could attack whatever evidence came to light. By going with the "there is no evidence" line, he is forcing the USADA to release more information than they might have and release it quicker.

Yes, I think in the end this will just strengthen the USADA. (And I hope they see that with a budget increase in the future.)

I am not sure it is Lance going down this route. I think Lance is already lying under the bus. It is the drivers that want to derail this from going any further.

And you are right, Lance's best legal bet would have been to go to arbitration. It could have kept it as a closed arbitration as well. After that he would have had recourse to the courts about "due process" and "constitutional issues." Indeed there are indeed some arguments to be made.

Still I don't think he would have survived the arbitration process. And I don't think, even if he did, the courts would open the discussion on arbitration.

Lance is lying under the bus now waiting to see which part hits him first.

 

[python]

brodeal and others who advocated impulsive release of the evidence, please have patience !

it was fully expected that armstrong will try to misdirect the doping evidence against him into a political/pr mud wrestling BEFORE usada's rear front is secured..that's the game he can control and the game usada should stay away from.

in stead, usada should - as it did so far - continue methodically working under wada code towards the goal under its OWN time schedule dictated by the complex changing circumstances. armstrong's money connections, and power are actively engaged in derailing usada.

when wada and the other understanding parties are fully on board, the political ramblings of those political cronies can be simply ignored.

usada clearly stated more than once that the evidence will be made public at the right time. the last statement narrowed the time frame to 1-2 weeks.

 

[Anonymous]

brodeal and others who advocated impulsive release of the evidence, please have patience !

it was fully expected that armstrong will try to misdirect the doping evidence against him into a political/pr mud wrestling BEFORE usada's rear front is secured..that's the game he can control and the game usada should stay away from.

in stead, usada should - as it did so far - continue methodically working under wada code towards the goal under its OWN time schedule dictated by the complex changing circumstances. armstrong's money connections, and power are actively engaged in derailing usada.

when wada and the other understanding parties are fully on board, the political ramblings of those political cronies can be simply ignored.

usada clearly stated more than once that the evidence will be made public at the right time. the last statement narrowed the time frame to 1-2 weeks.

I don't know if it was a grand plan or if it has happened by coincidence... but the snowball started rolling down hill when the charging letter was made public.

Think about what has happened since June... just stunning and the pace of the dismantling is increasing. For idiot politicians to try and put the genie back in the bottle just shows their on-going inability to accurately read the tea leaves.

That and the increasingly desperate camp Armstrong has really made this story rise from a level of wildly entertaining... to edge of my seat suspense. Everyday seems to bring new revelations.