Prep for RvV

[Archibald]

Doing both the RvV and Paris-Roubaix Cyclo's this year.

I've ridden PR before, and there's not much you can do to prepare for those cobbles other than miles in the legs and extra bar tape.

What about RvV though? Living in London doesn't exactly give you much in the way of nearby hills with steep gradients to train on in prep for RvV...

Any ideas on this?
Either training ideas or location ideas (around London)...

 

[ergmonkey]

The simplest thing I can think of is to go to what hills you do have and then totally over-gear yourself while doing seated climbing. Longer grades will be better than slightly steeper but much shorter ones. The idea is to ride a gear that forces you to work at your max to push about 60 rpm for seated climbing.

 

[ergmonkey]

As for locations, I've only ridden in London for about six weeks one summer, but I seem to remember one fairly steep grade just outside of one of the main entrances to Richmond Park. Not super long, but you could probably do 90 second repeats on it working very hard in a big gear.

I also found riding in London to be good for speed work. My only effective stay-safe strategy was to try to never ride slower than the speed of traffic!

 

[Scatto]

RVV is a very nice tourist ride. There's a good supply of food and drinks BUT I would suggest you take even more candies and rice cake with you. I had eaten so much I've never felt tired except after crossing the finish line. Also, you may be in good shape, but it's better to start slow and work together with other cyclotourists without speeding on the first berg.

For PR, ignore the cobblestones. They're not there. Use a lower pression on your tires (may be useful in RVV too) and speed up on the cobblestones, using a gear that's too high. This way, your buttocks will have less contact with the saddle so that the frame will absorb shocks and not you. I prefer to hold the handlebars on top or at the brakes, because you can't really steer anyhow.

Good luck !

 

[bhilden]

If the wind is out of the NE, like it always seems to be, the most important aspect of training is knowing how to ride in an echelon so you can get to the cobbles/hills that begin around mile 100 with enough energy left to do them justice.

I rode a 38x28 low gear. I would recommend something as low or lower because as you get to the hills all the smaller distance rides are there as well and it can become crowded enough that you can't necessarily ride your own pace.

I went to Madeira to train for the ride. If you have ever ridden there you will know why it is probably the best place to train for the RvV.

 

[galaxy1]

where are you in london? i have ridden the famous RvV climbs a few times and there is a lot of (non-cobbled) riding near me (edge of london due north towards hertford) that i think is ideal prep.
for example, this very crude circuit covers a dozen or so such.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4311990
there are plenty of others further into town e.g. highgate hill.

i know there are is a similar set of hills south of london (e.g. some of the olympic RR course) - but i don't generally ride there.

basically what you are looking for is short, very sharp hills - the sort that always hurt no matter how good your form is.

 

[LugHugger]

there's a really good little book published recently in the UK called 100 Great Climbs or something like that. There's a steep partly cobbled climb in there close to central London. I think that it's in Highgate or Muswell Hill. It might help you out. Failing that the escarpment around Biggin Hill is ideal training grounds for the Ronde.

Edit: http://www.amazon.co.uk/100-Greatest-Cycling-Climbs-Cyclists/dp/0711231206

 

[Archibald]

Cheers for the responses folks! Muchly appreciated.

As for locations, I've only ridden in London for about six weeks one summer, but I seem to remember one fairly steep grade just outside of one of the main entrances to Richmond Park. Not super long, but you could probably do 90 second repeats on it working very hard in a big gear.

Star and Garter Hill rd, is the one I think you're referring to - leads up to the Richmond Hill Gate. Have done most of my riding at Richmond park simply due to the sharpish climbs it has coupled with the other deceptive uphill sections - including the Star and Garter hill.
Profile of Richmond Park:

where are you in london? i have ridden the famous RvV climbs a few times and there is a lot of (non-cobbled) riding near me (edge of london due north towards hertford) that i think is ideal prep.
for example, this very crude circuit covers a dozen or so such.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4311990
there are plenty of others further into town e.g. highgate hill.

i know there are is a similar set of hills south of london (e.g. some of the olympic RR course) - but i don't generally ride there.

basically what you are looking for is short, very sharp hills - the sort that always hurt no matter how good your form is.

I used to be in North London (turnpike lane area), but am no in the west. Used to love those hills out north in herts - up the A111 with Stagg Hill or the Ridgeway, then all about the lanes to hatfield and hertford...
I recall an absolute b*tch of a hill near muswell hill.
Looks like I might need to head back northwards!

there's a really good little book published recently in the UK called 100 Great Climbs or something like that. There's a steep partly cobbled climb in there close to central London. I think that it's in Highgate or Muswell Hill. It might help you out. Failing that the escarpment around Biggin Hill is ideal training grounds for the Ronde.

Edit: http://www.amazon.co.uk/100-Greatest-Cycling-Climbs-Cyclists/dp/0711231206

brilliant! will look out for that and the cobbled hill in highgate.
I don't know Biggin Hill at all, so will check that out too.

 

[Anonymous]

I had some interesting data recorded by my Garmin. Maybe it will help.

My ride time, 9:39 (It rained most of the day) for 258kms.

Heart Rate Zone (time spent in)

Z1: 1:24
Z2: 3:21
Z3: 2:56
Z4: 1:35
Z5: 2minutes, 39 seconds

In my view, don't worry about threshold or above threshold training. You just need to be able to ride all day.

The tough hills didn't start for me until about 5 1/2 hours in, then about every 15 minutes or so you will be climbing another one. The Paterberg/Koppenberg back to back were the hardest part. The Koppenberg climbs about 450 ft in elevation, the Paterberg is a little less. Most of the rest are between 250 and 350 feet in elevation gain. The steepest gradient was 22%... I saw that on the Paterberg, Koppenberg and a very short steep section near the top of the Muur (where Boonen was dumped last year).

The big thing is the hills are all at the end. My struggle was not with cardio-vascular, it was with my legs. I had never ridden anywhere near that far or that long.

IMO, time on the bike is much more important than training on short steep climbs. If you can do both, then that would be better.

 

[Monty Dog]

Get yourself down to the Surrey Hills - take the train to Dorking if too far to ride - there are plenty of routes where you can link a series of hills to replicate the efforts - the earlier advice about remaining seated and grinding it out is important, otherwise out-of saddle efforts on the cobbles just causes the back wheel to skip frustratingly. If you can climb Whitedown in the saddle, the only worry about the Patterberg / Koppenberg duo is negotiating all the other riders. Flandrian kaissen aren't anything like as rough as the pave at P-Rx.

 

[Archibald]

Thanks folks.

Looks like some trips down into Surrey for some looong rides trying to find sharp hills every 15mins would be the way to go. Now to find the time to ride! (other than commuting each day)...

 

[Archibald]

down to richmond park for several laps on the weekend - staying seated up the "hills" in higher gears than ususal. Very hard to resist the urge to just rise out of the saddle when the legs are just screaming...
not up to being able to big ring it yet, but progress is on the up

 

[Chuffy]

I'll be riding it too (150k). If you can, come down to Devon. We've got more chevrons on our hills than a hedgehog has fleas. I'll be trying the seated climbing trick as well - not my usual technique - as the steeper pitches are going to be impossible standing up, especially if it's wet.

Good luck!

 

[Michielveedeebee]

I had some interesting data recorded by my Garmin. Maybe it will help.

My ride time, 9:39 (It rained most of the day) for 258kms.

Heart Rate Zone (time spent in)

Z1: 1:24
Z2: 3:21
Z3: 2:56
Z4: 1:35
Z5: 2minutes, 39 seconds

In my view, don't worry about threshold or above threshold training. You just need to be able to ride all day.

The tough hills didn't start for me until about 5 1/2 hours in, then about every 15 minutes or so you will be climbing another one. The Paterberg/Koppenberg back to back were the hardest part. The Koppenberg climbs about 450 ft in elevation, the Paterberg is a little less. Most of the rest are between 250 and 350 feet in elevation gain. The steepest gradient was 22%... I saw that on the Paterberg, Koppenberg and a very short steep section near the top of the Muur (where Boonen was dumped last year).

The big thing is the hills are all at the end. My struggle was not with cardio-vascular, it was with my legs. I had never ridden anywhere near that far or that long.

IMO, time on the bike is much more important than training on short steep climbs. If you can do both, then that would be better.

I'm already ****ting myself for the Koppenberg Patersberg isn't long enough to really wear you out, especially because you've got the gutter to ride in
Koppenberg will hurt like hell though :s
Oh and I'm doing some steep hills around Bellegem and Kortrijk in my highest possible gear 52x14 and I really feel my power growing, might be a good thing to do

 

[Archibald]

I'm already ****ting myself for the Koppenberg Patersberg isn't long enough to really wear you out, especially because you've got the gutter to ride in
Koppenberg will hurt like hell though :s
Oh and I'm doing some steep hills around Bellegem and Kortrijk in my highest possible gear 52x14 and I really feel my power growing, might be a good thing to do

certainly feeling my strength grow, but I doubt I'm strong enough to big ring it on some hills...
what little confidence I've gained has just waltzed out the door...

 

[Michielveedeebee]

certainly feeling my strength grow, but I doubt I'm strong enough to big ring it on some hills...
what little confidence I've gained has just waltzed out the door...

It's dying though, nor are it the steepest hills I'm going to try the Kluisberg and Kruisberg next week on big ring. Kluis will be pure agony

 

[Anonymous]

I'll be riding it too (150k). If you can, come down to Devon. We've got more chevrons on our hills than a hedgehog has fleas. I'll be trying the seated climbing trick as well - not my usual technique - as the steeper pitches are going to be impossible standing up, especially if it's wet.

Good luck!

I will attest to that, theres barely a flat, straight peice of road in the county. Added to that it is home of the magic bi-directional winds which are in your face whichever direction you ride in.

If you really want some proper flanders training go down to cornwall and just ride the coast road, up and down like a yoyo at every inlet, and each climb is short but hard as the roads go from cliff height, down to sea level, and back up again.

 

[Chuffy]

If you really want some proper flanders training go down to cornwall and just ride the coast road, up and down like a yoyo at every inlet, and each climb is short but hard as the roads go from cliff height, down to sea level, and back up again.

Heh, I'll be riding the north coast road from Sennen to St Ives with a friend as part of his LEJOG. It's at the end of April, so RVV is part of my training.

Out tonight riding a local climb (up onto the Haldons from Shillingford St George if you know it) which has an average gradient of about 11% for a mile and a sharpest pitch of 20% - if I can get up that, seated, on 39/25 then I should be good for the Koppenberg.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Out tonight riding a local climb (up onto the Haldons from Shillingford St George if you know it) which has an average gradient of about 11% for a mile and a sharpest pitch of 20% - if I can get up that, seated, on 39/25 then I should be good for the Koppenberg.

Add on another 7-8% for the cobbles...... and practise your front-wheel "pull-ups" on the 20%, to extract the front wheel from the open gaps between the cobbles.

Not sure whether there is moss/lichen growning on the cobbles near the top (under the trees) now, after they re-laid them for 2003 RvV.

 

[Chuffy]

Add on another 7-8% for the cobbles...... and practise your front-wheel "pull-ups" on the 20%, to extract the front wheel from the open gaps between the cobbles.

Not sure whether there is moss/lichen growning on the cobbles near the top (under the trees) now, after they re-laid them for 2003 RvV.

Thanks for the extra info (I think....). I'm not too worried about the moss and lichen - there will be about 17,999 riders ahead of me to scrub it off.

 

[Winterfold]

OP - do a search on garmin connect for my username and there will be some GPS tracks on there with the location of the Surrey Hills climbs (make sure you look at the road bike tracks ). I havent done RVV but the length, altitude gain and steepness of the climbs look about the same, and there are so many potholes and bad road surfaces that those nice smooth belgian cobbles will be **** luxury in comparison.

Whitedown and Barhatch Lane are the real leg-breakers and therefore avoided by the more commercial sportives

They are much tougher than Star & Garter Hill or the little ramps in Richmond Park and a much better test for what you are taking on.

Good luck!!

 

[Met de Versnelling]

I will attest to that, theres barely a flat, straight peice of road in the county. Added to that it is home of the magic bi-directional winds which are in your face whichever direction you ride in.

If you really want some proper flanders training go down to cornwall and just ride the coast road, up and down like a yoyo at every inlet, and each climb is short but hard as the roads go from cliff height, down to sea level, and back up again.

Damm straight Dim. That was one of the things that made me decide Plymouth over Manc uni was the riding, it's an absolute blast. I didn't realise about the winds though, i'm pretty lightweight and get blown all over the shop, but it's good for forcing yourself to battle.

Funnily enough, i'm from West London, used to go to Grey Court school, so i know S&G hill/Richmond park well, used to big gear that on a dual suspension steel Raleigh when i was there I used to love caning it down Queens Road towards Richmond on my way home, hurl abuse at the Christ school kids and they'd not have a chance of catching me. Aaaah, youthful-ness.!

I'd say find a weekend in the run-up to going to RVV/PR where you can get spend a couple of days down here in Devon and just ride, you'll not want for hills, and has been mentioned, there's some horrendous grades to test yourself on.

Good luck!

 

[Winterfold]

having typed that I dont have massive confidence in how searchable connect.garmin is

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/71330728

do that 4 times you are a better man than I!

that takes the easy road up winterfold/pitch, this has the harder Barhatch Lane on it

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/68603387

If you can get up Barhatch Lane in the saddle, you can probably do most short steep climbs in the UK and N Europe.

Train to Dorking or drive down and park in the free Hurtwood car parks around Peaslake or free NT car parks on Leith Hill

 

[Anonymous]

Heh, I'll be riding the north coast road from Sennen to St Ives with a friend as part of his LEJOG. It's at the end of April, so RVV is part of my training.

Out tonight riding a local climb (up onto the Haldons from Shillingford St George if you know it) which has an average gradient of about 11% for a mile and a sharpest pitch of 20% - if I can get up that, seated, on 39/25 then I should be good for the Koppenberg.

this is the profile from perranporth round lands end, back to falmouth

regularly used to do sections of that, especiall the falmouth out to helford and onto the lizard and back. constant up and downs, no real long climbs, maybe 1k max, but steep as hell, then plummet down into the bays, then back up again.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Did it Big ringed the Kluisberg