Proceedings open against Ullrich

Jun 15, 2009
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Again, I have to question the timing of this. Right as the Tour is getting under way, they decided after 3 years, now is the time to announce they are seeking prosecustion. This kind of thing doesn't do cycling any good at all.

As Ullrich himself said: ”Although haven't taken part in professional cycling since [2007], this news comes out exactly during the Tour de France – that is more than an incredible 'coincidence'.”
 
Mar 18, 2009
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anubisza said:
Again, I have to question the timing of this. Right as the Tour is getting under way, they decided after 3 years, now is the time to announce they are seeking prosecustion. This kind of thing doesn't do cycling any good at all.

As Ullrich himself said: ”Although haven't taken part in professional cycling since [2007], this news comes out exactly during the Tour de France – that is more than an incredible 'coincidence'.”
+1. This is just stupid. Why waste money and more time just to try and prove what everyone knows? No point sanctioning him because he has retired and will not be making a comeback. Why three years after the fact? Why now during the TdF? It really just highlights the idiocy of the Swiss Federation in that they haven't been able to organize themselves for the last three years despite having all the available information and evidence, and to chose a time to announce this which guarantees maximum media coverage.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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has not he already paid a one million euro fine, for heaves sake

or 500k fine.

That is a lot of money. Not that he would ever have to work a day in his life as is.
 
I actually feel bad for Ullrich. I know that he doped but he was quiet about it, never took the "cynical" approach to it. He never said to be antidoping or anything like that. Besides he was doing what everybody else was doing. I know I might be bash for this but those are just my feelings.
 
Jun 23, 2009
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Absolute BS. He has been put through the ringer enough already. Sure he did it just like everyone else. Leave this poor guy alone, his intentions are to never come back to cycling. He has a good life and I am sure he enjoys being a normal family man now. What good will fines and a lifetime ban do? Swiss federation must be hurting for money. F-them!

I am not an angry person...but this crap does it's best to razzle me up!
 
Jun 21, 2009
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Turd Ferguson said:
Absolute BS. He has been put through the ringer enough already. Sure he did it just like everyone else. Leave this poor guy alone, his intentions are to never come back to cycling. He has a good life and I am sure he enjoys being a normal family man now. What good will fines and a lifetime ban do? Swiss federation must be hurting for money. F-them!

I am not an angry person...but this crap does it's best to razzle me up!
the cheater gets your sympathy?? :confused:
 
Jun 23, 2009
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workingclasshero said:
the cheater gets your sympathy?? :confused:
Yes for the fact that he is never coming back and will have nothing to do with cycling in the future by his own admission. Angry because, as you have read above, 3 years to start proceedings and annouce during the tdf. I don't sympathize with cheaters but he is done, gone, and can be swept under the rug.
 
While I think there are much more important fish to fry, this has roots deeper than what's on the surface I believe, and may dig down to Werner Franke's efforts to expose doping, especially in Operation Puerto.

For those scratching their heads, Franke is the renowned German molecular biologist who has tried to get Jan to confess in the past. He said that Jan has a child-like mentality and couldn't possibly have known what he was being doped with and got help from many people that Franke wanted exposed and tried. He wants Jan to finger those who "poisoned" him, even at one point confronting Jan to his face about it and pleading with him to talk.

Franke was also given a leaked copy of the 6,000 page OP dossier, and while he admitted he wasn't fluent in Spanish and hadn't fully cracked the code, he said it's clear what it implies and he wants the dossier presented as legal evidence, and officially released. The idea to both get Jan to spill his guts, and expose more cheaters (Contador being one of them in Franke's eyes).

So, it's not like there hasn't been pressure on German authorities to go after Jan. It just sucks that Jan himself has to be the pinpoint, when even someone like Franke is going after doping on a much deeper level. Franke does have a very strong ethical streak, and knows what he's talking about, if a little bit of a mad scientist. He helped expose the DDR's doping machine, and I think honestly isn't after Jan, but the establishment of doping.

Let's hope this is what that's all about, and not just one cyclist, who's already been shamed and punished.
 
Jun 23, 2009
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workingclasshero said:
the cheater gets your sympathy?? :confused:
workingclasshero said:
i don't believe in sweeping things under the rug myself :
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the subject matter rather than just nit-picking my comments. I am smart enough to read between the lines and can figure out your stance on the matter but I am a bit confused since you have not said anything regarding the subject.
 
Jun 21, 2009
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Turd Ferguson said:
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the subject matter rather than just nit-picking my comments. I am smart enough to read between the lines and can figure out your stance on the matter but I am a bit confused since you have not said anything regarding the subject.
ok big boy. as you are so smart you can read between the lines (well done btw, i really made that one difficult, didn't i) how can you be confused?

anyhoo: i simply don't feel sorry for a doper who's made millions on winning (or coming second) thanks to the drugs all this while lying to all of us. the fact that we knew and that he knew that we knew and that we knew that he knew that we knew is not good enough for me. as he is still persisting with his old lies. fook him.
 
Jun 23, 2009
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workingclasshero said:
anyhoo: i simply don't feel sorry for a doper who's made millions on winning (or coming second) thanks to the drugs all this while lying to all of us. the fact that we knew and that he knew that we knew and that we knew that he knew that we knew is not good enough for me. as he is still persisting with his old lies. fook him.
Agree with you on the lying aspect, I guess he just jumped on the deny, deny, deny, and we can win in court bandwagon like everyone else.

Maybe everyone is right about the mob aspect of cycling and he was just told to give up and go away and deny everything.

I would just rather see them pursue some newer cases or suspicious riders and get them to go away rather than prosecuting the past.
 
Here is a wild plan. What if Ullrich's lawyers were to attack the proceedings against him in regular court by arguing that being singled out for unfair treatment despite dozens of others who were caught up in OP but have remained untouched? Use labor law as the basis for fighting the sanction.
 
Jun 21, 2009
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BroDeal said:
Here is a wild plan. What if Ullrich's lawyers were to attack the proceedings against him in regular court by arguing that being singled out for unfair treatment despite dozens of others who were caught up in OP but have remained untouched? Use labor law as the basis for fighting the sanction.
wouldn't that be like admitting guilt? it would be as if armstrong had said that it didn't matter if he doped or not, as he was still seen as the winner by the uci

madness. what a crazy thought. would never happen.
 
workingclasshero said:
wouldn't that be like admitting guilt? it would be as if armstrong had said that it didn't matter if he doped or not, as he was still seen as the winner by the uci

madness. what a crazy thought. would never happen.
Everyone already knows he is guilty. There is no possible way he can win in the doping proceedings when there is DNA evidence. His only option is to go outside to real the courts.

Valverde is now pursuing a similar strategy in that his lawyers are fighting the charges on technicalities. Just like Ullrich, the DNA shows that Valverde is unquestionably guitly.
 
Jun 21, 2009
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BroDeal said:
Everyone already knows he is guilty. There is no possible way he can win in the doping proceedings when there is DNA evidence. His only option is to go outside to real the courts.

Valverde is now pursuing a similar strategy in that his lawyers are fighting the charges on technicalities. Just like Ullrich, the DNA shows that Valverde is unquestionably guitly.
read my post again pal
 
Mar 19, 2009
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WADA, Swiss, Germans, etc want big Jan to talk and name names. They want to expose Contradoper and create more madness for the Tour somehow. They think Ullrich knows things; time will tell what he does.

The Germans are an interesting bunch...They care very much about their own reputation. They are very nice to Americans too. :)
 
workingclasshero said:
the bit that flew right over your head. pal.
Maybe you should be clearer. Do you mean this bit?

workingclasshero said:
wouldn't that be like admitting guilt? it would be as if armstrong had said that it didn't matter if he doped or not, as he was still seen as the winner by the uci
Do you mean this bit, for which the analogy with Armstrong does not make a lot of sense because in the SCA arbitration Armstrong's lawyers argued that it did not matter whether Armstrong doped because his contract with SCA did not say he coud not?
 
Mar 10, 2009
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As has been discussed in the Valv.piti case, I wonder if they actually can sue him. He already setted out of court when the Germans went after him... How can the Swiss go after him again :confused:
 
May 13, 2009
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Bala Verde said:
As has been discussed in the Valv.piti case, I wonder if they actually can sue him. He already setted out of court when the Germans went after him... How can the Swiss go after him again :confused:
Different opponents. He never settled anything with the Swiss.
 

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