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Prosecute the 50%ers ?

Jun 15, 2010
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When the UCI brought in the 50% hematocrit limit,cycling entered a period where riders could take EPO with impunity up to the 50% limit. Nowadays finnishing a 3 week stg race without a lowered hematocrit would be considered clear evidence of blood manipulation.Can riders be retrospectively sanctioned on this basis?
 
Jul 25, 2009
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simo1733 said:
When the UCI brought in the 50% hematocrit limit,cycling entered a period where riders could take EPO with impunity up to the 50% limit. Nowadays finnishing a 3 week stg race without a lowered hematocrit would be considered clear evidence of blood manipulation.Can riders be retrospectively sanctioned on this basis?

They can be retrospectively sanctioned on Bio-passport violations for up to 8 years. The question is what hematocrit trends are necessary to avoid sanctions. The bio passport criteria for acceptable hematocrit will probably get refined and change with time. If the UCI's view of what is acceptable behavior also changes with time, we may see some retrospective sanctions.
 
How does one build bio passport for a rider who has a 44 hematocrit, yet in the late 90's pushed 50 in each and every race? Are those test results omitted?
8 years is not enough, and people should have been penalized.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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simo1733 said:
When the UCI brought in the 50% hematocrit limit,cycling entered a period where riders could take EPO with impunity up to the 50% limit. Nowadays finnishing a 3 week stg race without a lowered hematocrit would be considered clear evidence of blood manipulation.Can riders be retrospectively sanctioned on this basis?

Yeah, let's bring down every single rider from the late '90s.
Why would you even want that?
Let's take the Bjarne example. Give it to Ullrich. Wait,Telekom had a program. 3& 4 were Festina. Luttenberger was 5 so that doesn't work also. 6 was Leblanc who admitted years later, 7 was Ugrumov with his infamous 62% red blood cell count. etc. etc.

Changing results years later would be more damaging to the sport than all the doping in the world.

Do you have some favorite who finished 148th in a TDF and you want him to win or something?
 
Jun 16, 2010
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ak-zaaf said:
Changing results years later would be more damaging to the sport than all the doping in the world.

I don't know about "damaging", but it would certainly be more futile as you so clearly pointed out. That is why ASO revoked Riis' victory when he first announced he had used EPO to achieve it, but then some weeks later restored it. I think they realized the same thing -- that everyone was on EPO that year.

It was kind of a joke when they revoked Floyd's victory and gave it to Pereiro. You didn't have to perform any blood tests to know he was doping. All you had to do was listen to what he said.

If he were clean he would have said, "I'm so glad that they are catching the cheaters. That makes it so that clean riders like myself have a chance to win."

But instead he said, "I don't want to take the victory under these conditions. I don't think they treated Floyd properly." But after a couple of months he changed his mind and was glad to take the Yellow Jersey and the 1 million Euro prize money. A$$hole.
 
Jun 15, 2010
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Who suggested that

ak-zaaf said:
Yeah, let's bring down every single rider from the late '90s.
Why would you even want that?
Let's take the Bjarne example. Give it to Ullrich. Wait,Telekom had a program. 3& 4 were Festina. Luttenberger was 5 so that doesn't work also. 6 was Leblanc who admitted years later, 7 was Ugrumov with his infamous 62% red blood cell count. etc. etc.

Changing results years later would be more damaging to the sport than all the doping in the world.

Do you have some favorite who finished 148th in a TDF and you want him to win or something?

I don't want to change any results.That was your suggestion.Of course u would have to go a long way down the results to find a clean rider,but when u did find him,he would be justified in demanding action against those who doped.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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simo1733 said:
I don't want to change any results.That was your suggestion.Of course u would have to go a long way down the results to find a clean rider,but when u did find him,he would be justified in demanding action against those who doped.
I'm with ak-zaaf on this one, for the very reasons he stated. I'm not sure you would ever find that clean rider with enough certainty to retroactively award him a tdf title, and it would just open that dirty little "secret" and make a mockery of past tours.
 
Aug 4, 2009
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Anything can alter the blood values a dose of trotts or too much salt on his meal that is why they have the blood passport.
Taking iron is legal but not so good unless you are loosing blood because it builds up in the liver.
Young cyclist are taking heaps of iron all the time but when you get older you need to cut it back.

So mant things can alter Hematocrit too much testosterone will do it so no need for EPO Even echinaca you use for a cold will lift it if you take enough.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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brianf7 said:
Anything can alter the blood values a dose of trotts or too much salt on his meal that is why they have the blood passport.
Taking iron is legal but not so good unless you are loosing blood because it builds up in the liver.
Young cyclist are taking heaps of iron all the time but when you get older you need to cut it back.

So mant things can alter Hematocrit too much testosterone will do it so no need for EPO Even echinaca you use for a cold will lift it if you take enough.

Yeah, it will. But not by ten points...

Interesting how when the 50 came in, how whole teams had medical profiles come out with entire squads posting 47-49. REALLY not within the realm of human variation, even for elite athletes.

Another point for the UCI to get out of the doping control game. They don't want to bust anyone, they just want to look like they're doing something.

Burn it to the ground, mother****er...
 
Jun 15, 2010
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What if

pedaling squares said:
I'm with ak-zaaf on this one, for the very reasons he stated. I'm not sure you would ever find that clean rider with enough certainty to retroactively award him a tdf title, and it would just open that dirty little "secret" and make a mockery of past tours.

I am not in favour of reawarding the yellow jersey even if it was won doped, but what if the best clean rider isn't in 140th place. What if was in the top 10-20. Someone like Christophe Moreau was reported to have a hematocrit of 38.Shouldn't he get some credit if he was the best clean rider.Or should he just keep quiet to protect the cheats .
 
Yeah, the rider with the lowest hematocrit before the EPO test, should get some sort of reward. Perhaps even a symbolical appreciation and moral winner.
While Pantani was dancing high 49's, someone out there had the 40-44 he was born with, yet struggling to not lose too much time.
 

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