Pulling a Wiggins

[The Hitch]

:facepalm:

what did I do wrong?

 

[LaFlorecita]

what did I do wrong?

Seems okay to me but then again median stuff I last saw 10 years ago in math class

 

[Cyivel]

A mod changed it. See a few posts or pages back.

I think the title an the OP are quite clear. I do understand your point about pulling a Shlech etc though.

However the words used are immaterial, ts the issue that matters. I AM going to change the title slightly, depersonalising to the modern caricature

Thank You brother.

 

[Netserk]

what did I do wrong?

Please forget you ever read my post. I just had major brain fart

 

[sittingbison]

I am going to do a "thehog":

Ok everyone, listen up.

This thread is NOT about Sky or any other team. It is NOT about Dawg or any other rider including Sir Wiggo being extraterrestrial. It is NOT about a corrupt UCI.

The thread is about THIS:

.... Is this the new strategy for doping: Dope yourself to the moon then coast on the results? Who is next?

which has been termed "pulling a Wiggins"

So keep it on track please, nobody wants this thread degenerating to be all about Sky

derailing this thread by "fans" of Wiggins reiterating his cleanliness, or "haters" having a dig at Sky etc will not be tolerated.

 

[JimmyFingers]

The irony of this thread is Wiggins hasn't pulled a Wiggins yet, particularly if he goes out and wins the ITT Worlds, but then this place has never been big on facts.

Pulling a Cobo would be far more accurate, but then you wouldn't be able to sneer as much.

 

[Ferminal]

Except if you think Cobo doped in 2011 then you also have to think he doped in 2007-2009 and thus he has already pulled a "Cobo" in 2010 even though he hadn't really won anything (Pais Vasco and a Tour stage via a relegation). i.e. There must be other/additional reasons for his terrible years at Abarca than not doping to preserve a contract, as it stands he's not going to get employed unless Matxin has sufficient power at Lampre.

 

[Von Mises]

Froome's highest score: 2766 in 2013(could yet increase)

Froome's other scores- 77-253-170-126-779-1427.

Froome's scores arranged from lowest to highest

77-126-170-253-779-1427-2766

That is 7 numbers, so the median is the 4th number. The 4th number is 253.

So the highest score minus the median score is : 2766- 253.

Which is 2513.

And that is being kind to froome and not including his elite 2 score - 0 (from first year).

So I was correct, and when you say "2500 points my ***", you are wrong.

Feel free to admit it.

Though you are technically correct, I cannot see usefulness of this method (or what is you point.)
- if Froome continues during next years same way, in future his median look very different, but does it change the fact that he had a huge leap?
- if you discount years when Wiggins defined himself as track cyclist, you will get different number for him
- you can find high median numbers for other riders (Gilbert, Rodriquez) and depnding of year what you count last, at one point of career you can find relatively high median (+ 1500) for several successful GC riders (Contador, Evans, Nibali, even Quintana has around 1500 point jump) etc

 

[JimmyFingers]

Except if you think Cobo doped in 2011 then you also have to think he doped in 2007-2009 and thus he has already pulled a "Cobo" in 2010 even though he hadn't really won anything (Pais Vasco and a Tour stage via a relegation). i.e. There must be other/additional reasons for his terrible years at Abarca than not doping to preserve a contract, as it stands he's not going to get employed unless Matxin has sufficient power at Lampre.

I think I was going more for the fact that Cobo has never reached the heights of his GT win since, rather than judging his palmares overall. To call it 'doing a Wiggins' before the subsequent season is even over is massively jumping the gun and smacks of the usual prejudice towards the rider and his team.

As I said if he takes the Worlds ITT title his season will be a success.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

The irony of this thread is Wiggins hasn't pulled a Wiggins yet, particularly if he goes out and wins the ITT Worlds, but then this place has never been big on facts.

Pulling a Cobo would be far more accurate, but then you wouldn't be able to sneer as much.

2012 Portugal 3º in General Classification Volta ao Algarve, Portugal
2012 Portugal 1º in Stage 5 Volta ao Algarve, Portimão (Faro), Portugal
2012 France 2º in Stage 1 Paris - Nice, Saint-Rémy-lès-Chevreuse (Centre), France
2012 France 3º in Stage 5 Paris - Nice, Mende (Languedoc-Roussillon), France
2012 France 1º in General Classification Paris - Nice, France
2012 France 1º in Points classification Paris - Nice, France
2012 France 1º in Stage 8 Paris - Nice Col d'Èze, France
2012 Switzerland 1º in Stage 1 Tour de Romandie La-Chaux-de-Fonds, Switzerland
2012 Switzerland 1º in General Classification Tour de Romandie, Switzerland
2012 Switzerland 1º in Stage 5 Tour de Romandie, Crans (Genève), Switzerland
2012 France 2º in Prologue Critérium du Dauphiné, Grenoble (Rhone-Alpes), France
2012 France 1º in Stage 4 Critérium du Dauphiné, Bourg-en-Bresse (Rhone-Alpes), France
2012 France 4º in Stage 6 Critérium du Dauphiné, Morzine (Rhone-Alpes), France
2012 France 1º in General Classification Critérium du Dauphiné, France
2012 France 2º in Prologue Tour de France, Liège (Liege), Belgium
2012 France 1º in Stage 9 Tour de France, Besançon (Franche-Comte), France
2012 France 1º in Stage 19 Tour de France Chartres, France
2012 France 1º in General Classification Tour de France, France
2012 Unknown 1º in Olympic Games, Road, ITT, Elite Hampton Court Palace, London, Great Britain
2012 Unknown 2º in UCI World Tour, Unknown

versus

2011 Spain 2º in Stage 5 Vuelta Ciclista a Burgos Areniscas de los Pinares, Spain
2011 Spain 3º in General Classification Vuelta Ciclista a Burgos, Spain
2011 Spain 1º in Stage 15 Vuelta a España, Alto de l'Anglirú (Asturias), Spain
2011 Spain 2º in Stage 17 Vuelta a España, Peña Cabarga (Cantabria), Spain
2011 Spain 1º in General Classification Vuelta a España, Spain
2011 Spain 5º in Points classification Vuelta a España, Spain
2011 Spain 3º in Mountains classification Vuelta a España, Spain

Yep, you are right jimmy, let's call it pulling a Cobo

Or were you referring to Cobo's first peak year where he won out of nothing - or Cera - Pais Vasco? And yet his downfall the years after was not as shocking as sir Wiggins.

They do seem to have mental issues in common, I'll give you that one. But comparing a yearround peak versus a man who had four weeks of peak form and due to incapable directeur sportifs of another team wins a GT? Uh uh.

As I said if he takes the Worlds ITT title his season will be a success.

Ridiculous. Two million pounds for a World Title TT'ing?

 

[Netserk]

I think I was going more for the fact that Cobo has never reached the heights of his GT win since, rather than judging his palmares overall. To call it 'doing a Wiggins' before the subsequent season is even over is massively jumping the gun and smacks of the usual prejudice towards the rider and his team.

As I said if he takes the Worlds ITT title his season will be a success.

But Wiggins who DNF'ed his next GT and perhaps never will participate in another GT, will get closer?

 

[JimmyFingers]

But Wiggins who DNF'ed his next GT and perhaps never will participate in another GT, will get closer?

Who knows what the future holds. As for Wiggins he has been injured unless you lot dispute that. Perhaps you want Sky to publish his medical records to prove it.

You say perhaps, and that is the right word. Still doesn't justify the title does it? Anyway do carry on, these discussions always hold so much merit despite issues with the title.

 

[Netserk]

And you don't think Cobo has been injured (or suffered from a depression)?

My point was that most likely Cobo have done better in a GT since his victory than Wiggins ever will, so it puzzles me why you use that as a reason to call it a Cobo.

And no I don't think there was much wrong with Wiggins in the Giro (injury wise).

 

[BYOP88]

And you don't think Cobo has been injured (or suffered from a depression)?

My point was that most likely Cobo have done better in a GT since his victory than Wiggins ever will, so it puzzles me why you use that as a reason to call it a Cobo.

And no I don't think there was much wrong with Wiggins in the Giro.

Aside from having the 'fear'

 

[Catwhoorg]

The whole chest infection was made up ?

 

[del1962]

So on wednesday we will pretty much no the criteria for "pulling a wiggins"

If we use the crude GC ranking, which does not account for injuries, illness etc, then if he wins the ITT and completes the RR the ratio will be just over 27%, a dissapointing season yes, but a lot of riders will fall into this differntial between two seasons, if he crashes out of TT then the ration will be just over 17.5%, obviously there will be less riders in this category.

Of course it could have been worse for Wiggo, he could have had a season like Tom Boonen or Andy Schleck

 

[Von Mises]

And yet his downfall the years after was not as shocking as sir Wiggins.

I cannot agree with it. Even numbers tell differently, but story behind numbers even more.

Wiggins downfall comes down to only one race - Giro. Before Giro people did not regard it downfall though he was already 700 points behind his 2012 ranking results. Sure, in 2012 he won PN, Romandie etc; in 2013 he finished top 5 in Trentino and Catalunya, what points wise is very different from 2012 results, but form-wise (he climbed on par with Nibali, Rodriquez, Quintana in 2013) it is not very different. So he won Giro prediction poll here and even after first week of Giro, he was still considered among favorites. For instance The Hitch predicted after Giro´s first week winning chances: 22% - Nibali, 20% - Evans, 18%-Wiggins.

 

[Netserk]

So on wednesday we will pretty much no the criteria for "pulling a wiggins"

Wiggins in GTs since his breakthrough in 2009:

4th, 40th, 23rd, DNF, 3rd, 1st, DNF. And then most likely (99%) never again a top-20.

I'd call that pulling a Wiggins.

 

[The Hitch]

It's not just the clinic though. Brian smith (major Wiggins fanboy) for example during tdf presentation on eurosport:

Smith: ... Wiggins has struggled after the heights of last year and doesn't have the form to be here
Muppet: well actually the great Sir Bradley Wiggins has a knee injury unfortunately otherwise he'd be in with a real shout...
Smith: yeah, I think it's more a case of he has struggled to keep motivated...

 

[del1962]

Wiggins in GTs since his breakthrough in 2009:

4th, 40th, 23rd, DNF, 3rd, 1st, DNF. And then most likely (99%) never again a top-20.

I'd call that pulling a Wiggins.

I see you have conveniently ignored everything else in my post though.

 

[Netserk]

I see you have conveniently ignored everything else in my post though.

And you'd know why if you read the posts before your own.

 

[The Hitch]

I see you have conveniently ignored everything else in my post though.

Considering you are the poster who does that more than anyone else, I don't see how you can complain.

 

[hrotha]

So what if Wiggins wins the ITT WC? Gilbert won the RR WC and he's still a textbook example of what this thread is about - and in Gilbert's case one-day races, and not GT's, are supposed to be his focus.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I cannot agree with it. Even numbers tell differently, but story behind numbers even more.

Wiggins downfall comes down to only one race - Giro. Before Giro people did not regard it downfall though he was already 700 points behind his 2012 ranking results. Sure, in 2012 he won PN, Romandie etc; in 2013 he finished top 5 in Trentino and Catalunya, what points wise is very different from 2012 results, but form-wise (he climbed on par with Nibali, Rodriquez, Quintana in 2013) it is not very different. So he won Giro prediction poll here and even after first week of Giro, he was still considered among favorites. For instance The Hitch predicted after Giro´s first week winning chances: 22% - Nibali, 20% - Evans, 18%-Wiggins.

Perhaps we should rename the topic into 'doing a Jurgen Hingsen', for the somewhat elderly of age they will know what that means, Wiggins downhilling looked the same.

I do agree with your analysis of Wiggins season, there was nothing wrong with him, what made him do a Hingsen?

 

[Ferminal]

I think I was going more for the fact that Cobo has never reached the heights of his GT win since, rather than judging his palmares overall. To call it 'doing a Wiggins' before the subsequent season is even over is massively jumping the gun and smacks of the usual prejudice towards the rider and his team.

As I said if he takes the Worlds ITT title his season will be a success.

It will be a success as per current expectations, but not the level of success expected of someone coming off the second best stage racing season post-1998. That's like Evans' 2012 being a success because he won Corsica and a Dauphine stage. Anyway talking about "success" is semantics and nothing to do with doping, the real issue is performance and why it has fallen away so dramatically (be it in absolute terms or consistency).

Re it being a "Wiggins" or not, well, I don't care for the labeling, but I thought the idea of this thread was a shortish period of incredible results followed by cessation/reduction of doping in order to comfortably enjoy the sustained rewards. Not just a "name riders who have wild swings in ability due to doping". Doping is one of if not the key factor driving fluctuations in ability from one season to another and there are many reasons why that may have occurred with this being only one of them.

Off the top of my head:

a) Moving away from a team which has institutional support for doping.
b) Moving to a team which may frown upon doping.
c) Losing support personnel/suppliers (could be associated with a change of teams or investigations).
d) Higher chance of testing positive and being sanctioned or these risks reducing the extent to which one can use products/techniques.
e) No longer being able/willing to cope physically with previous doping regime(?).
f) No longer being able/willing to cope mentally with previous doping regime.
g) Deciding to cease doping (heavily?) to preserve future income/wellbeing (this thread?).
h) Previous doping regime was always too risky to be sustained long term (d/g? - Probably applies more to guys like Santi).

So Wiggins might be an f and g. Gilbert a/c, and g. Contador c, d, and g. Cobo a/c, f and g. Evans g with a fraction of f. Historically the dominant factor may have been variations on d, but we haven't really seen action on this front in recent years, unless it's coming in the form of taps on the shoulder from Uncle Pat.