Quinn Simmons is the new Quinn Simmons

[SafeBet]

I've spotted him at the back of the peloton with 70 something km to go yesterday.
He was struggling.

A normal opening weekend on cobbles for a teenager, I'd say.

 

[MartinGT]

I've spotted him at the back of the peloton with 70 something km to go yesterday.
He was struggling.

A normal opening weekend on cobbles for a teenager, I'd say.

He wasn't down to ride Omloop IIRC and was a late draft. It's a massive baptism of fire going to WT and then added that, opening weekend.

I know Harry Tanfield last year said it was full gas and he struggled big time, but learnt a hell of a lot and he was a guy who had won a stage of TDY. So had some experience of WT level riders and racers.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He was on camera a long time yesterday, even with a name tag on the screen. He was indeed riding somewhere at the back. I think i saw him at the front of the peloton doing a pull on Saturday also with maybe 70k to go. Looked like he was doing better on Saturday than Sunday.

But his program the following month isn't exactly easying up on him. So if he has to let go in Omloop and KBK, does it really make sense to send him to Strade, Paris Roubaix...?

I'm still struggling with the idea behind his schedule. I've said it before. Evenepoel was a few months older, known to have a bigger engine. But they still easied him into WT, sending him to mellow races like San Juan, Turkey, Hammer Series... It took him 6 months to find his footing.

In Quinn's case, the burden lies in the first two months. And after that his season will likely be over for the most part. Obviously results won't be expected, but what are they trying to teach him? "It's more difficult than you imagined"? What's the point riding these races if you have to get off the bike before the magic happens.

 

[LosBrolin]

imo same applies to Carlos Rodriguez and his situation with Ineos. Why not try to score big time in the U23-races instead of carrying bottles/getting DNF's in the World Tour? Remco dominated junior races like no one ever before and just like Logic-is-your-friend writes above it took still some time for him to get used with the big boys. I feel like Remco created a dangerous precedent and now teams are thinking every other talented junior is ready to ride WT? I get that they'll likely go much better later in the season, but sometimes locking these talents up way too early might not be the best way to go?

 

[Bolder]

I suspect Trek was hoping that Quinn would pull off something magical, but I think we all know -- as LIYF stated above -- that there's a much bigger learning curve in the Low Country classics than, say, easier short stage races in warm climates. His level is probably correct for a stagiare, although he's 3-4 years younger than a typical one.

If I were Trek, I'd do some physiological testing and revise his program if necessary. I don't agree 100 percent that he has to be kicked back to the U23s, and I can see value in mixing it up with the WT regulars in KBK or Omloop, or even P-R. But if he reacted badly on a physiological level to Saturday/Sunday you don't want him to get into a training hole he can't dig out of.

 

[yaco]

I don't see a problem with his program - He's mainly riding one day races where there is no pressure to perform or finish as opposed to a stage race where he has a more defined role.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I don't see a problem with his program - He's mainly riding one day races where there is no pressure to perform or finish as opposed to a stage race where he has a more defined role.

Even if there is no real issue, the question remains: what's the point? Why kick off with an incredibly ambitious schedule, if you're going to get kicked out the back or getting off the bike before the race even starts? What's he learning? How to "give up"? Is this motivation for an 18 year old? The only lesson he's learning is that he's got a long way to go. Ok, lesson learned... no wait, there are half a dozen races coming up that are even harder than those you just DNF'd. Ah, but he got the chance to ride next to the big boys. It makes no sense.

The jump to smaller pro races would have been more than big enough coming from the juniors, even if they didn't want to keep him in the U23. And actually finishing races among the pros, riding finals, contributing to a win, maybe getting in a break that has an actual shot at winning, being there where the race is being decided instead of dangling at the back or in the shower, might just be more interesting for him.

imho

 

[SafeBet]

There are a lot of easier and less competitive one day races on cobbles too, if that's really his cup of tea.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

There are a lot of easier and less competitive one day races on cobbles too, if that's really his cup of tea.

When i first commented on his schedule, i mentioned Denain for one. It's like a mini Paris Roubaix / Strade Bianche. Mathieu van der Poel won it last year against a fairly mellow field of competition. In my mind, a race like that would be ideal for Simmons.

 

[F_Cance]

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Looks like he crashed hard Saturday or Sunday. Bike in two pieces.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

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Looks like he crashed hard Saturday or Sunday. Bike in two pieces.

He's talking about "tomorrow another shot" so i assume this was from saturday?

 

[F_Cance]

Looks like it is deleted now. So i can't check the time, but i am sure that the video was from today and tomorrow meaning Samyn.

 

[yaco]

Simmons is an 18 year old who is dipping his toe in the water for experience - I doubt very much the team has high expectations in regards to his performance and they will monitor his recovery and adjust his program accordingly - Strangely it's some posters in this forum who have high expectations about his performance - It's just as likely he will be a non-finisher in Denain .

 

[BlueRoads]

Well, I got no clue if Simmons wanted it this way, if Trek have hopes too high... but maybe they just want him to get as much experience as possible, race, race, race, and especially him being an American, to get used to the kind of streets and routes that they see him best suited for. Yes, maybe he doesn't learn so much at the back of everything, but maybe they can really see him getting used to this level rather soon. Definitely a "just throw him in the water" approach. And actually I don't see him struggling so very much, of course he didn't win anything so far, but simply being able to hold on is quite impressive (if not compared to Evenepoel, which would be unfair). And maybe that's something he can gain confidence from, too. Hope so, after all he's still more of a kid, even if he doesn't look like one.

 

[Naico]

With all do respect for Trek but the main reason why Simmons decided to join Trek is because he got promised he would be able to race the big classics in his first year already. Is that smart ? No. Did it allow Trek to beat offers from WT teams ? Yes. Teams go far to attract (very young) talent these days. Be it a lot of money or crazy first year programs. And often it’s not helping the attracted talent.

 

[42x16ss]

Let's see if they really throw Simmons in the deep end and send him to RvV and P-R first. If it's just the semi classics, I wouldn't say the schedule is too much.

I hope for Simmon's sake Trek doesn't burn him out with a full classics schedule. He's a promising talent but I wouldn't be sending him to anything bigger than Dwars

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Let's see if they really throw Simmons in the deep end and send him to RvV and P-R first. If it's just the semi classics, I wouldn't say the schedule is too much.

I hope for Simmon's sake Trek doesn't burn him out with a full classics schedule. He's a promising talent but I wouldn't be sending him to anything bigger than Dwars

He's scheduled for PR. And i'm personally not insisting the schedule is too much, but that i'm wondering if there is any point in it and if he wouldn't learn and benefit more from a less ambitious schedule.

 

[Naico]

Another DNF for Simmons in Le Samyn

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Another DNF for Simmons in Le Samyn

I think i saw him 35k from the finish. He's getting closer

Also, 3rd race in 4 days...

 

[repre]

Not a bust yet, but definetely he is nothing special either

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Not a bust yet, but definetely he is nothing special either

That's a bit harsh. If you'd have thrown Alaphilippe, van der Poel or Gilbert into the deep-end at that age, chances are they wouldn't have performed any better, and yet they all turned out to be pretty special in one or more ways. But i stand by my previous statement, i'm not a fan of his current schedule.

 

[yaco]

Simmons can only ride the schedule in which the team participates - It's tough for a team to frame a team program that perfectly suits one rider.

 

[Naico]

Simmons can only ride the schedule in which the team participates - It's tough for a team to frame a team program that perfectly suits one rider.

Simmons raced/is racing:
-Omloop
-Kuurne (2 days in a row)
-Samyn (3 races in 5 days! even too much for Stuyven)
-Strade
-E3
-Gent-Wevelgem (2 very hard races in 3 days!)
-Dwars door Vlaanderen
-Paris-Roubaix

On top of that he did 3 races in Mallorca, and 2 stage races in France.

This was also possible:

• Do 1 or 2 races in Mallorca (in stead of three) with at least a day of recuperation between them, race
• Tour de la Provence (and not étoile de Bessèges + Tour de la Provence)
• Kuurne (and not Omloop + Kuurne)
• Samyn
• Bredene Koksijde Classic
• Driedaagse Brugge- De Panne
• Dwars door Vlaanderen
• Scheldeprijs

And even then, it seems a little much for an 18y old.

Like I said, in contract negotiations Simmons wanted to have a taste of the big classics already in his first season. Trek complied, most other teams couldn’t give him that guarantee.

 

[Salvarani]

I wonder how the rest of the riders on the team feels. Since someone is missing out on racing these races. Maybe someone that has more experience and that could be a domestic. Simmons experience in that is also limited. Having a rider on to "learn" but not be of any use for a leader on the team is a waste of space. But if they promised him, they promised him. Investing for the future is great, and maybe they look like geniuses later but right now it looks overly ambitious.

 

[Bolder]

A few points: Simmons wanted a big role and Trek offered it. Trek, as a US bicycle company, desperately needs a US star. Simmons, by all accounts, could be that star. After seeing Simmons's performance last year at the Jr. Worlds, I imagine visions of Remco were dancing in the heads of about half a dozen teams (can't remember if he signed with Trek before or after but w/e). It's hugely to Trek's benefit if Quinn is on the starting line and on-camera at P-R rather than a lower-tier race, or sitting at home. Regardless if it's optimal for his development as a rider.

I am not saying they are exploiting him, but I do hope this is to his benefit. And he may yet have a breakthrough in the right conditions.

I didn't expect Simmons to win right away but also surprised that he hasn't recorded more strong finishes. The optimist in me says maybe Trek is treating him like a starting pitcher in baseball -- once he reaches a "pitch count" he's out of there, no matter what. Maybe Trek is saying, once you're spending more than X time at LT (or whatever metric), we'll pull the plug on the race.