Race Design Thread

[Another_Dutch_Guy]

Hmm, I think you should keep this stage untouched. Libertine won't forgive you if you skip the Fedaia . You'll be fine if you skip the Monte San Giacomo on stage 13, it's propably to small for road cycling anyway. But you're in charge. All three would definetely become interesting stages!

 

[fauniera]

I see your point but i stick with the easier stage to Seiser Alm. A super hard stage 15 could take the sting out of stages 13 and 14, and i don't want that. And i like Monte San Giacomo. Note that it's so narrow only for a few km. If that provokes chaos, all the better.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Nothing like the chaos I will provoke on you for removing the queen of the Dolomites, the majestic peak of Marmolada, the mighty ruler of Alpine summit passes.

Fedaia! FEDAIA!

 

[ColAgnel]

I decided to play a bit with Tracks4Bikers and i am already hooked to it. Soon i will try to do a Grand Tour but for now, my first mapping:

I went for a stage in les Pyrénées starting in Argelès-Gazost and finishing in Piau Engaly. I wanted badly to have a stage finishing in Piau Engaly because it isn't climbed since 1999, when riders were literally flying up mountains. On a side note, it is the most elevated ski station in les Pyrénées.

It features Tourmalet followed by le Col d'Aspin, little climb to Lançon, le Col d'Azet and the final climb to Piau Engaly. The only reason Tourmalet is included is because i wanted a HC climb right on the beginning.

Climbs:
Col du Tourmalet: 20km @ 7,3%
Col d'Aspin: 12.8km @ 5%
Col d'Azet: 7,5km 2 8,3 %
Piau Engaly: 20km @ 5,2%

 

[togo95]

I have mapped some alternative stages with the same start and finish places as in Tour 2014 route:

Stage 1: Leeds - Harrogate; 21 km

Since I made the mountain stages harder, there is need for more TT kms and I like the idea to start with longer ITT than just prologue. This one is not too flat either (unlike the second ITT on penultimate day).

Stage 11: Besancon - Oyonnax; 179 km

I am happy with other stages in the first week and second weekend so let's move to stage 11 after rest day. We don't know the real one, but I would like something like this before sprint stage to Saint-Etienne.

Climbs:
Col de la Croix de la Serra (141) - 12 km; 5%
Col du Sentier (169) - 5.5 km; 7%

 

[togo95]

Stage 13 (version 1): Saint-Etienne - Chamrousse; 228 km

Similiar to original stage, but with less flat before final climb (which is easier from this side) and some new climbs as well.

Climbs:
Col de la Republique (12) - 8.4 km; 5.5%
Quaix-en-Chartreuse (141) - 3.4 km; 8.5% (last 2 km with almost 11%)
Col de la Porte (155) - 11.1 km; 7.7%
Col de la Faita (169) - 5 km; 8.2%
Col du Coq (173) - 2.1 km; 9%
Route d'Allevard (202) - 9 km; 6.5%
Chamrousse (228) - 18,5 km; 6.3%

Final kilometers:

Stage 13 (version 2): Saint-Etienne - Chamrousse; 233 km

Here the main obstacle is definitely final climb to Chamrousse from the hardest side, but 233 kilometers with some nasty ascents will surely tire some legs too.

Climbs:
Col de la Republique (12) - 8.4 km; 5.5%
Laffrey (168) - 6.8 km; 9.2%
Col de Malissol (185) - 2.3 km; 8.3%
La Morte (200) - 3.7 km; 7.5%
Chamrousse (233) - 18.2 km; 7.8%

Final kilometers:

Which of these two versions do you like more?

 

[jsem94]

Definitely the first one.

 

[togo95]

Stage 17: Saint Gaudens - Pla d'Adet; 182 km

This is the queen stage. One, which the real route lacks. It is not overly long in distance, but with so much climbing it could be carnage. It is possible that helpers will be dropped quite early and then anything can happen, although the profile doesn't look like the best for long range attacks.

Climbs:
Bois de Tir (18) - 3.2 km; 6.2%
Col de la Serre (27) - 5.7 km; 5%
Port de Balés (62) - 11.7 km; 7.7%
Col de Peyresourde (87) - 9.5 km; 7.6%
Col de Val Louron-Azet (104) - 7.4 km; 8.3%
La Hourquette d'Ancizan (128) - 10 km; 7.8%
Col d'Aspin (144) - 5.4 km; 7.3%
Lancon (162) - 4.3 km; 9%
Pla d'Adet (182) - 10.5 km; 8.2%

Stage 18: Pau - Hautacam; 161 km

Last mountain stage should open possibilities for those who want to change something about the result of the race. I think this one does it much more than the original one, although I like Tourmalet.

Climbs:
Col de Marie Blanque (56) - 9.2 km; 7.7%
Col d'Aubisque (93) - 16.6 km; 7.2%
Col de Spandelles (127) - 10.2 km; 8.4%
Hautacam (161) - 15.8 km; 7.6%

 

[jsem94]

Dat queen stage. 70% of the peloton misses the time cut. Amazing stage design, could be stale though, you never know.

 

[roundabout]

Portillon on the stage to Luchon? Or Aspet-Mente-valley?

 

[togo95]

Portillon on the stage to Luchon? Or Aspet-Mente-valley?

Yeah, I would say something like this (so less significant than original stage, serves more like an appetizer):

That is with Aspet (6.2 km; 6.2%) Mente (6.5 km; 8.5%) and Portillon (8.5 km; 6.5%)

 

[sensations]

Quick question: I know there have been races such as Nice-Mont Agel, Monte Carlo-Mont Agel in the 60s but does anyone know whether Mont Agel has *ever* been in the discussion for a Tour de France MTF?

I get that it's military area etc on top but there's a lot of space on top, a stunning view across the Cote d'Azur and a good final climb to that much sought after Alpes-Maritimes stage in Nice's hinterland and surely La Turbie or even Monaco could afford it.

I mean - I'd love something like this (mainly cause it would throw the cat amongst the pigeons from the get-go) but an ASO-fied softer version shouldn't be impossible to do:

Menton (First 10km are cut off)
Col De La Madone De Gorbio (12,5km 7%) 1eme
Col De Cavalier (5,5km 7,2%) 2eme
Col De Braus (9km 6,8%) 1eme
Col De Turini (5km, 6% & 12km 7,3%) 1eme (just outside HC from that side)
Col De Porte (7km 7%) + Baisse de la Cabanette (4,5km 8,5%) 1eme
Notre Dame des Anges (4km 5,7%) 3eme
Col De Châteauneuf (5,5km 6,8%) 2eme
Col d'Eze (6,7km 6,6%) 2eme
Mont Agel (12,2km 7,2%) 1eme

Been Zomegning a little considering that's nine categorised climbs but oh well.

 

[fauniera]

Stage 18: Pau - Hautacam; 161 km

Last mountain stage should open possibilities for those who want to change something about the result of the race. I think this one does it much more than the original one, although I like Tourmalet.

Climbs:
Col de Marie Blanque (56) - 9.2 km; 7.7%
Col d'Aubisque (93) - 16.6 km; 7.2%
Col de Spandelles (127) - 10.2 km; 8.4%
Hautacam (161) - 15.8 km; 7.6%

So much better then the ridiculous ASO stage. You could include Souscousse/Soudet, though.

Nothing like the chaos I will provoke on you for removing the queen of the Dolomites, the majestic peak of Marmolada, the mighty ruler of Alpine summit passes.

Fedaia! FEDAIA!

I am sorry, i really am. But it was necessary, as the weekend would have been too much. Now i have a hard stage 13, a super hard stage 14 and a medium hard (and very scenic) stage 15 with a very steep if short final climb. It's better balanced that way, i would say. And there always is your Fedaia! stage, isn't it?

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Stage 18 of the Tour got me wondering, how about Tourmalet-Aubisque (Soulor)-Spandelles-Hautacam? Just a thought.

 

[fauniera]

Stage 18 of the Tour got me wondering, how about Tourmalet-Aubisque (Soulor)-Spandelles-Hautacam? Just a thought.

That would have been very good (with Borderes between Tourmalet and Soulor), and was long rumoured to be stage 18. But no, can't be.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

That would have been very good (with Borderes between Tourmalet and Soulor), and was long rumoured to be stage 18. But no, can't be.

That's what I was thinking, as a recommendation. Frankly, Tourmalet-Hautacam as currently planned is friggin' lame.

 

[McLovin]

That's what I was thinking, as a recommendation. Frankly, Tourmalet-Hautacam as currently planned is friggin' lame.

Bad IMO it's not the length of the stage or the omnipresent here "Tourmalet problem". Bad is that it's almost sure that in this last mountain stage a rider who is more than 2 minutes down on GC will not be able to attack before the last climb.
If Adet stage was crossed with this one......

 

[Netserk]

Another take at the Tour

I have tried to create a monster route that are balanced and where riders won't wait for the last 5km before they attack. There are a few new climbs, but it's mostly 'safe' ones, so they shouldn't be any problem. It's a classic route with a prologue and two additional TTs, with the last on being on stage 20.

There are four new starting/finishing towns, but all four could be in a real route. Gujan-Mestras, Arette la Pierre-Saint-Martin (The ski station), Prades & Rumilly.

The Grand Depart is in Clermont-Ferrand, Auvergne. From there it goes out to the western coast and then counter-clockwise, with the Pyrénées first and then the Alpes last.

The overall route:

Stage 1 Saturday, Clermont-Ferrand -> Clermont-Ferrand, 10.7km (ITT)
Stage 2 Sunday, Clermont-Ferrand -> Super-Besse, 182km
Stage 3 Monday, Brioude -> Aurillac, 187km
Stage 4 Tuesday, Brive-la-Gaillarde -> Bordeaux, 215km
Stage 5 Wednesday, Bordeaux -> Gujan-Mestras, 56km (ITT)
Stage 6 Thursday, Gujan-Mestras -> Bayonne, 174.5km
Stage 7 Friday, Bayonne -> Arette la Pierre-Saint-Martin, 160km
Stage 8 Saturday, Pau -> Loudenvielle, 190km
Stage 9 Sunday, Bagnères-de-Luchon -> Foix, 197km
Stage 10 Monday, Foix -> Prades, 205km
---Rest Day, Perpignan---
Stage 11 Tuesday, Perpignan -> Montpellier, 184km
Stage 12 Wednesday, Nimes -> Manosque, 187km
Stage 13 Thursday, Aix-en-Provence -> Chorges, 195km
Stage 14 Saturday, Digne -> Isola 2000, 236km
Stage 15 Sunday, Isola 2000 -> Valloire, 210km
---Rest Day, Albertville---
Stage 16 Tuesday, Albertville -> Morzine, 197km
Stage 17 Wednesday, Morzine -> Rumilly, 200km
Stage 18 Thursday, Bourg-en-Bresse -> Dijon, 147.5km
Stage 19 Friday, Besancon -> Mulhouse, 133km
Stage 20 Saturday, Mulhouse -> Colmar, 65.8km (ITT)
Stage 21 Sunday, Versailles -> Paris (Champs-Élysées), 133.5km

Some fact and numbers:

There's 7 flat stages, 8 mountain stages (4 Pyrénées, 3 Alpes and 1 Jura), 3 ITTs (132.5km), 0 TTT and 3 hilly/medium mountain stages. The total length is ~3470 depending on the stage to Paris (which I usually don't bother much with, but will be the traditional finish). There's 44 2nd, 1st and HC mountains (that's about twice the normal), though only one 'real' MTF. The two rest days will be in Perpignan and Albertville after stage 10 and 15.

 

[Netserk]

Stage 1 Saturday, Clermont-Ferrand -> Clermont-Ferrand, 10.7km (ITT)

Intermediate time checks at: 2.76, 4.66 & 6.94.

A little longer than a normal prologue and hilly and technical. Contenders will be a mix of TT specialists and GC riders.

 

[Netserk]

Stage 2 Sunday, Clermont-Ferrand -> Super-Besse, 182km

A HTF to Super-Besse (2) with Croix-Morand (2) as warm-up and a hilly start of the stage. Not only a stage win, but also the yellow jersey will be on the line, so don't expect a breakaway to stick.

 

[ColAgnel]

Oh yeah Super-Besse... With Croix Morand! I mapped something simillar sometime ago. I like the idea of starting in Le Massif central.

I am sure it will come up to be a very good mapped Tour De France, tough i don't like the idea of having a prologue very much.

Looking forward to see the rest posted here soon!

 

[Netserk]

Stage 3 Monday, Brioude -> Aurillac, 187km

Second stage in the Massif Central, with Payrol (2) and Perthus (2) before the final two hills:

 

[Netserk]

Stage 4 Tuesday, Brive-la-Gaillarde -> Bordeaux, 215km

The first chance for the sprinters, and a well deserved rest day for the GC riders, as tomorrow is the most important stage in the first week.

 

[Netserk]

Stage 5 Wednesday, Bordeaux -> Gujan-Mestras, 56km (ITT)

A very long, dead flat and extremely non-technical TT that is exposed to wind. There's ~30km in the middle without a single bend!

Small climbers that are meant to be climbers and not GC riders will be put in place today Their only chance for GC is to ride aggressively in the upcoming mountains.

 

[Netserk]

Stage 6 Thursday, Gujan-Mestras -> Bayonne, 174.5km

The second flat stage and the only one left for the sprinters for some time, but watch out for echelons, as the route is exposed most of the day.