Race Design Thread

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Mayomaniac said:
I'd like to ask those who often post in this thread one question: What are some of the stages that you haven't used in your own races, but that you'd love to see in a GT or in any other stage race?
Two absolute devils of a stage in the Alpes:

Start: Saint Michel de Maurienne --> Sestriere --> Lautaret --> Galibier --> Telegraph --> Finish: La Tousuire

Or

Start: Saint Michel de Maurienne --> Mollard --> Croix de Fer --> Alpe d'Huez --> Sarenne --> Lautaret --> Finish: Galibier
 
Jun 18, 2009
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For me it's simple. 8 cols. I know it will never happen.
St. Girons - Aspet - Mente - Portillon - Peyresourde - Louron-Azet - Ancizan - Tourmalet - Luz Ardiden.

 
Jun 30, 2014
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McLovin said:
For me it's simple. 8 cols. I know it will never happend.
St. Girons - Aspet - Mente - Portillon - Peyresourde - Louron-Azet - Ancizan - Tourmalet - Luz Ardiden.

Very nice.
I'd love to see something like this:

Tonale, Gavia, Mortitolo from Mazzo, Monte Padrio (9.4 kms at 9.8%), a descent to Tirano and the final climb to Miralago, 7,5km at 6,7%.
 
Tour of Switzerland:

Interlaken - Andermatt: Interlaken - Grindelwald - Grosse Scheidegg - Sustenpass - Andermatt - Furkapass - Nufenenpass - Sankt Gotthardpass (old, cobbled ascent, not the new one) - Andermatt.

No mtf, even a descent finish, but bound to result in absolute carnage.

or:

Cuneo - Briançon/Granon: Esischie - Sampeyre - Agnello - Izoard and mtf (or not) on the Granon
 
Tour complet de France, stage 19: Nice - Risoul 1850: 185km, high mountains + mtf (Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur)

The previous stage was classic-like in appearance and length, more fit to the era of Coppi and Bartali, or even earlier champions than to contemporary races. Todays stage will also be reminiscent of the tours in the interbellum, not as much in length or design, but in geographical appearance.

Until the early 1950's many Tours featured a stage starting from the Côte d'Azur and venturing deep into the Alps. First from Nice to Grenoble, then to Briançon and Gap. Later, when Nice became an increasingly popular holiday spot, Cannes featured as starting location and still later this type of stage altogether disappeared, as starting from the Côte d'Azur became a logistical nightmare. The last time a stage went from the Côte d'Azur to the Alps was in 1975.

This stage will resume that tradition, but without the stage lenghts that now would be considered insane (actually, a first draw of this stage went from Nice to Briançon, for a total of 228km, but that would mean I had 3 200km+ mountain stages in a row, and only one real mtf).

The stage starts from the outskirts of Nice and follows the river Var upstream on its left bank. After a bit more than 30km a gentle right hand turn leads the peloton on its way to the highest paved road in France: the cime de la Bonette, which is also the first climb of the day. The technical descent is followed by an ever steepening false flat that results in the climb of the col de Vars, one of the classic climbs in the Tour. It was included 33 times in the Tour, but only once in the past two decades. The steep final of its southern slope is followed by a descent that starts out quite straightforward: not too steep and not very technical. It flattens out near Vars, only to become increasingly steeper and technical again. At the bottom of the descent there's only a few flat km before the final climb of the day, the very regular ascent to the ski resort of Risoul.

Map:


Profile:


Climbs:
Cime de la Bonette: km108; 25.8km @ 6.4%; HC; 2802m
Col de Vars: km152.5; 14.1km @ 5.7%; 1st cat; 2111m
Montée de Risoul: km185; 13km @ 6.7%; 1st cat; 1850m
 
I love how Bonette makes the others look barely considerable, it's like my Aosta stage where GSB made all the other climbs look tiny.

Stage 15: Yssingeaux - Sévérac-le-Château, 198km





Climbs:
Côte de Saint-Christophe (cat.3) 8,8km @ 3,5%
Côte de la Croix-Neuve (cat.2) 3,6km @ 8,6%
Côte de Choizal (cat.3) 4,6km @ 6,2%
Col de Saint-Rôme (cat.2) 7,8km @ 6,2%

Intermediate Sprint:
Mende, 114km

After the rest day, which will be spent in Saint-Étienne, the riders have a short drive to the start of the final week's racing, in Yssingeaux, a small town in the Auvergne region, as we head through the Massif Central for a stage which will be very good for the aerial vistas as well as serving as possibly the best opportunity for a real breakaway stage in the race. The early parts of the stage are fairly mild, mostly rolling terrain, although there are some notable altitude gains, particularly after the town of Le Puy-en-Velay, when a gradual ascent is categorization-worthy due to length. For the most part, however, the first half of this stage is there to allow the break to get into its rhythm and look to gain time on the bunch. In many ways the stage harks back to medium mountain stages for the breakaway like the well-designed 2009 Vosges stage, although this is a bit easier than that.

Business doesn't pick up until we enter Lozère, specifically when we pass through the popular cycling town of Mende with its scenic cathedral and valley setting; the intermediate sprint will take place here, and then the climbing will start in earnest. The steep and now notorious Côte de la Croix-Neuve (aka Montée Laurent Jalabert) is visible from the town, its savage profile showing a steepest kilometre at 13% - small wonder, then, that it has become a popular intermediate stop-off for the Tour, and at the moment, when offering stages through the Massif Central the ASO seems to be happy just to alternate Mende and Super-Besse rather than serve up some real mountain stages in the Cévennes.

We aren't finishing at the Côte for once, however, so the riders have to descend the similarly steep southern face of the ascent, before being backed into a second, slightly smaller climb, to Ferme Fortifiée de Choizal, a fortified castle overlooking the Lot. Though slightly longer than Croix-Neuve, the lack of steeper sections means this is a lower category. And with still around 60km to go, this will basically be to trim the break down to the stronger numbers and get rid of passengers; maillot vert contenders may consider the break on this stage, take points in Mende and then let themselves drop back on these climbs. The descent from Choizal takes us down to the banks of the Tarn, and from here on in, the race gets very scenic.

The riders spend the next 25km racing through the famous Gorges du Tarn in the Parc National des Cévennes, with glorious views and dramatic helicam footage. With almost impossibly picturesque villages and towns to pass through, the footage can easily speak for itself if the racing is in a holding pattern. But then, with just under 25km remaining, the riders reach Les Vignes and turn right, leaving the river behind and heading uphill once more on the road up to the hilltop lookout village of Saint-Rôme-de-Dolan. It's still an attractive climb, and snakes beautifully across the hillside for almost 8 kilometres. The first 6km average 7,5%, however it eases up slightly in the last couple before the summit; however, at least form the breakaway this is certainly enough to create the opportunity to make some differences. With the summit 17km from the line, it may even be enough for some GC men, although I would doubt they would be keen to make the effort given that most of that 17km is false flat downhill rather than full-on descending, so the kind of gaps they can create on it are not that sizable, especially with a non-technical run-in to the finish in the small castle-settlement of Sévérac-le-Château (the last 500m are slightly uphill, but we aren't climbing up to the castle) shortly after entering the Aveyron département; as I previously said, this one is likely to be disputed by the break, although the stage is enough of a potential banana skin for main contenders that they can't treat it as an unofficial rest day and will need to be on guard.

Yssingeaux:


Sévérac-le-Château:
 
Another_Dutch_Guy said:
Stage 2: Shuili - Chiayi (163 KM)

Just like yesterday, today's stage means a scenic ride through the "medium" mountains. Straight from the start in Shuili, the road will gradually go up into the Alishan Scenic Area. After 70 kilometres of climbing the peloton will finally find itself at the base of the highest mountain of Taiwan: the Yushan. They are already 2600 meters above sea level then! After this long ascend, the peloton will face an equally long descend towards Chiayi City.

Just 20 kilometres before the finish, a small detour will lead the peloton to the top of the Fanlu Shan. This climb averages 8% at 6,5 Kilometres, and could definetely create some early GC damage!


Profile



Yushan



Apparently the actual Tour of Taiwan will feature this climb at their stage 4 this year. As a mountain top finish! Maybe they had a look at your tour. ;)


 
I may have only finished the Deutschland Runfahrt yesterday, but I already had my next race in the Wings. This is a Single day race in the South of France

Le Classique des Nice et Alpes Maritimes





Climbs:
Cote de Duranus
Cote de Chateauneuf
Cote de Calaison
Col de la Madone de Gorbio
Col d'Eze
Cote de Mont Boron
Cote de la Parc du Mont Baron

For this hilly classic, we start on the Avenue des Anglais in Nice. They will follow the coast, until they get to the Airport. This is the point that the riders will start going north and following the Le Var river up to the first climb. This is the Cote de Duranus, which peaks out in the picturesque village of Duranus. They will then ride on through the hills above Nice and onto the next climb. This is the Cote de Chateauneuf The riders will then head onto the Cote de Calaison. Next they will tackle the Col de la Madone. Except they will tackle it from the other side they will decend it on the more familiar side. There is a video GCN did of the descent They will then ride to Menton before heading along the coast to Monaco. Then they will start the final long climb of the day. They will ride up the Col d'Eze the other side (Monaco) before descending to Villefranche sur Mer. They will head over to Mont Boron, for two differnent climbs. They will descend each then onto The Avenue Des Anglais to finish.

Nice:
 
Libertine: Do the editors automacilly register closed roads? I'm trying to make a stage over Agnello, but neither the editor at tracks4bikers or bikemape seems to accept my route choice.

Is there a way to get around this?
 
OlavEH said:
Libertine: Do the editors automacilly register closed roads? I'm trying to make a stage over Agnello, but neither the editor at tracks4bikers or bikemape seems to accept my route choice.

Is there a way to get around this?
I experienced the same the last few days. I encountered this problem before, but don't know how it got solved. I do think it has something to do with closed roads. If that's the case, we have to wait until spring... :(
 
It is something to do with closed roads and the routing software using google maps. You have to force google maps to give you directions over certain passes (and some it will outright refuse, especially those high-mountain passes that cross national boundaries, like Agnello, the Bernards (luckily the Aosta stages were among the first I designed for this Tour!), Rombo, Lombarde, Umbrail, though not Brenner or Montgenèvre...). The workaround you can do on mapmyride or openrunner is to switch to manual routing, but that requires a lot of patience on long and winding passes and the vast majority of the time I sure as heck can't be bothered.

Stage 16: Rodez - Toulouse, 154km





Intermediate sprint:
Albi, 76km

Halfway through the final week - just four stages after this - and we transition towards the south of the country and the crushing inevitability of the Pyrenées, via a short and absolutely pan flat stage for the sprinters. They haven't had many proper chances in this race despite the lack of climbs in the first week - Nantes was for them, probably Saint-Lô though they will have had to work for it, and Lausanne if they could get over the smaller hills, but that's it; Plérin was for the puncheurs, Cassel and Caudry for the Classics men, and Charleville-Mézières an introduction to intermediate climbing. Here we get what's only the 3rd or 4th pure sprinters' stage.

As such, there's not a great deal to write home about on this one. It starts in the capital of the Aveyron département, Rodez, which rather likes the Tour de France, hosting it on a comparatively common basis. It will host both a stage finish and a stage start in the 2015 race, but the last time at the time of writing was in 2010, when a mostly flat stage with a late bump began in the town; that stage was expected to be one for the sprinters despite the final hill being just under 10km from the line; however the best efforts of the well-oiled HTC machine were thwarted because VINO.

I am not offering such opportunities in this stage; there are no categorized climbs at all - that bump on the profile is at an aqueduct. The intermediate sprint comes halfway through the stage in the rather picturesque Albi; if there is still a competition alive in the maillot vert standings, expect the size of the break today to get restricted to allow them to compete for the intermediate.

After that, expect a long and fast build-up to a sprint finish. This one should be over in not that much over 3 hours; the majority of the run-in is straight, although there are a few bends in the road. The last 800m or so are absolutely straight as an arrow into one of France's biggest cities, so this will be a pure drag race. Probably won by somebody I don't like riding for a team I don't like. I've got to give them some onus to compete, right?

Rodez:


Toulouse:


In lieu of there being anything really interesting to say about this stage I thought I'd throw it to the floor which of the races I've got planned I should post next when the Tour is over. Should it be:
- a second Deutschlandtour, this time compacted into half the time?
- a second Tour de Pologne, in the opposite direction to the first and trying to make this into a genuine all rounder's race and restore some of its Cold War era glory?
- an Österreich-Rundfahrt?
- a Tour of Norway?
- a second Giro, with only one climb repeated from the last one (and which you'll all guess anyway)?
- a fifth (5th) Vuelta a España, featuring no previously-used mountain or hilltop finishes or ESP climbs from my previous attempts?
 
Jun 30, 2014
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rghysens said:
I experienced the same the last few days. I encountered this problem before, but don't know how it got solved. I do think it has something to do with closed roads. If that's the case, we have to wait until spring... :(
Yes, you also have the same problem with Stelvio and Timmelsjoch/ Passo del Rombo and both are closed durning the winter.
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
In lieu of there being anything really interesting to say about this stage I thought I'd throw it to the floor which of the races I've got planned I should post next when the Tour is over. Should it be:
- a second Deutschlandtour, this time compacted into half the time?
- a second Tour de Pologne, in the opposite direction to the first and trying to make this into a genuine all rounder's race and restore some of its Cold War era glory?
- an Österreich-Rundfahrt?
- a Tour of Norway?
- a second Giro, with only one climb repeated from the last one (and which you'll all guess anyway)?
- a fifth (5th) Vuelta a España, featuring no previously-used mountain or hilltop finishes or ESP climbs from my previous attempts?
Tour of Norway or the Giro :)
 
Sep 8, 2010
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lemon cheese cake said:
I may have only finished the Deutschland Runfahrt yesterday, but I already had my next race in the Wings. This is a Single day race in the South of France

Le Classique des Nice et Alpes Maritimes





Climbs:
Cote de Duranus
Cote de Chateauneuf
Cote de Calaison
Col de la Madone de Gorbio
Col d'Eze
Cote de Mont Boron
Cote de la Parc du Mont Baron

For this hilly classic, we start on the Avenue des Anglais in Nice. They will follow the coast, until they get to the Airport. This is the point that the riders will start going north and following the Le Var river up to the first climb. This is the Cote de Duranus, which peaks out in the picturesque village of Duranus. They will then ride on through the hills above Nice and onto the next climb. This is the Cote de Chateauneuf The riders will then head onto the Cote de Calaison. Next they will tackle the Col de la Madone. Except they will tackle it from the other side they will decend it on the more familiar side. There is a video GCN did of the descent They will then ride to Menton before heading along the coast to Monaco. Then they will start the final long climb of the day. They will ride up the Col d'Eze the other side (Monaco) before descending to Villefranche sur Mer. They will head over to Mont Boron, for two differnent climbs. They will descend each then onto The Avenue Des Anglais to finish.

Nice:
Oh I love this region and a really good looking race, too. :cool:
 
OlavEH said:
Libertine: Do the editors automacilly register closed roads? I'm trying to make a stage over Agnello, but neither the editor at tracks4bikers or bikemape seems to accept my route choice.

Is there a way to get around this?
Mayomaniac said:
Yes, you also have the same problem with Stelvio and Timmelsjoch/ Passo del Rombo and both are closed durning the winter.
you can use another engine other than google maps. Generally it works. In Tracks4bikers just use the OSM builder; in Openrunner you can select it using the top-right button.
 
Südtirol Classic

There should be more one day races in the mountains. Like this Südtirol Classic, which takes place in the region north of Bozen, between the rivers Etsch and Eisack. This fantastically beautiful region unfortunately features only rarely in the Giro.





It's short but hard. Directly after the start in Meran the riders have to tackle the 10 km climb to Hafling, then they continue on the Salten plateau before they descend towards Bozen. The second climb leads to Ritten, the third to Villanders. The final climb to Latzfonser Alm is a killer. It is 15 km long; the first 8,5 km average 7%, the final 6,5 km are 12,4% steep. All on tarmac. This is for a scalatore puro.
 
Jun 30, 2014
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fauniera said:
There should be more one day races in the mountains. Like this Südtirol Classic, which takes place in the region north of Bozen, between the rivers Etsch and Eisack. This fantastically beautiful region unfortunately features only rarely in the Giro.





It's short but hard. Directly after the start in Meran the riders have to tackle the 10 km climb to Hafling, then they continue on the Salten plateau before they descend towards Bozen. The second climb leads to Ritten, the third to Villanders. The final climb to Latzfonser Alm is a killer. It is 15 km long; the first 8,5 km average 7%, the final 6,5 km are 12,4% steep. All on tarmac. This is for a scalatore puro.
A beautiful race, I saw that track on tracks4bikers.com, so it was indeed created by someone who regularly posts in this thread:)
 
Libertine Seguros said:
In lieu of there being anything really interesting to say about this stage I thought I'd throw it to the floor which of the races I've got planned I should post next when the Tour is over. Should it be:
- a second Deutschlandtour, this time compacted into half the time?
- a second Tour de Pologne, in the opposite direction to the first and trying to make this into a genuine all rounder's race and restore some of its Cold War era glory?
- an Österreich-Rundfahrt?
- a Tour of Norway?
- a second Giro, with only one climb repeated from the last one (and which you'll all guess anyway)?
- a fifth (5th) Vuelta a España, featuring no previously-used mountain or hilltop finishes or ESP climbs from my previous attempts?

1. Austria
2. Fedaia
3. Norway
 
Jun 30, 2014
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Libertine Seguros said:
In lieu of there being anything really interesting to say about this stage I thought I'd throw it to the floor which of the races I've got planned I should post next when the Tour is over. Should it be:
- a second Deutschlandtour, this time compacted into half the time?
- a second Tour de Pologne, in the opposite direction to the first and trying to make this into a genuine all rounder's race and restore some of its Cold War era glory?
- an Österreich-Rundfahrt?
- a Tour of Norway?
- a second Giro, with only one climb repeated from the last one (and which you'll all guess anyway)?
- a fifth (5th) Vuelta a España, featuring no previously-used mountain or hilltop finishes or ESP climbs from my previous attempts?
1) Giro
2) Österreich-Rundfahrt if it's only a one week race, a 2 weeks long Österreich-Rundfahrt would be better than another Giro.
3) Norway
 
OlavEH said:
Libertine: Do the editors automacilly register closed roads? I'm trying to make a stage over Agnello, but neither the editor at tracks4bikers or bikemape seems to accept my route choice.

Is there a way to get around this?
Tips brought to you by Netserk. Sponsored by Twitter.

Netserk ‏@Netserk93
It's no problem to map over Agnel if you use Open Street Map instead of Google Maps.
If you click here (http://i.snag.gy/mRJGs.jpg ) in Openrunner you will be able to select an engine based on OSM. Personally I use MapQuest.
On http://Tracks4bikers.com you just need to use the OSM builder instead of the standard Beta builer (http://i.snag.gy/It8Z4.jpg ).
On http://bikeroutetoaster.com (which I use and then export GPX files from) it uses the OSM engine.
Cheers.
 
Tour Complet de France, stage 20: Briançon - Grenoble: 211km, high mountains + hilltop finish (Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur - Rhône-Alpes)

Map & Profile:


Climbs:
Col du Lautaret: km25; 9.6km @ 5%; 2nd cat; 2058m (not counting the false flat in the beginning)
Col de Sarenne: km63; 12.7km @ 7.5%; 1st cat; 1999m
Chamrousse (Luitel): km126; 17km @ 7.9%; HC; 1750m
Col du Coq: km176.5; 12.8km @ 8.5%; HC; 1430m
Col de Porte: km194; 7.6km @ 5.7%; 2nd cat; 1326m
Montée de la Bastille: km211; 1.9km @ 14%; 2nd cat; 501m
 
Libertine Seguros said:
In lieu of there being anything really interesting to say about this stage I thought I'd throw it to the floor which of the races I've got planned I should post next when the Tour is over. Should it be:
- a second Deutschlandtour, this time compacted into half the time?
- a second Tour de Pologne, in the opposite direction to the first and trying to make this into a genuine all rounder's race and restore some of its Cold War era glory?
- an Österreich-Rundfahrt?
- a Tour of Norway?
- a second Giro, with only one climb repeated from the last one (and which you'll all guess anyway)?
- a fifth (5th) Vuelta a España, featuring no previously-used mountain or hilltop finishes or ESP climbs from my previous attempts?
Tour of Norway, please.
 

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