Race radio: can they keep it safe and make the races interesting?

[newenglandrocks]

Very interesting article on the ban of race radio at the French National Championships and at the TdF on stages 10 and 13.

In summary, the argument in favor of race radio is safety.

The argument against race radio is that it makes the racing "boring".

I want to know why don't they just have a one way race radio that is run by the race organizers? With today's technology, you could selectively broadcast the safety conditions to the entire peloton, as well as selective groups of racers, so that a breakway would know about a farmer's strike in the next two km, for instance.

That way, information about safety would be made available for the peloton, yet information about the current state of the race and gaps, etc. could operate in the "old school" fashion.

Albert

 

[fiftyfour eleven]

Race radio's suck, they simply remove another tactical element of the sport, it's like playing chess without starting with the Queen. All you get now is Thomas the Tank engines on the front shutting down the races for the sprinters and even then the trains aren't what they were. Remember the GB boys for example?

If the teams are seriously (?) concerned with rider safety them equip everyone with Garmin type units as you can program all sorts of information into them including things like when a roundabout is coming up!

 

[Vlaanderen90]

Safety isn't really an issue...

Michael Barry, Columbia-High Road, had an article on Velo-news that touched on race radios and he seemed to think that radios make it even more unsafe b/c when it is announced that something is up ahead it makes the peloton even more skiddish and therefore more crash-prone.

It would be nice though to have that one-way race radio...

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Let me ask a question. Just how dangerous was riding before race radios? What dangers have radios been conclusively shown to have elimined?

Great topic, discussed twice before. Here, and here.

 

[titan_90]

Honestly, I don't care if they use race radios or not. But I do respect guys that don't use them and read the race themselves like Di Luca.

 

[BroDeal]

At some point the UCI will have to set limits. In the duplicate thread that was posted today, someone mentioned that you could just use a GPS programmed with info about road hazards. Do we want riders with color LCD screens giving detailed route info in real time, including point of view images of upcoming parts of the course? A computerized voice would be telling the rider that in order to catch the break with three kilometers to go, the speed needs to be increased by 0.2 km/hr.

The more I think about it, the more I am in favor of eliminating all electronics, including cyclometers.

 

[Bala Verde]

The more I think about it, the more I am in favor of eliminating all electronics, including cyclometers.

No, let's do the opposite. Hook ehm to a Tackx Virtual Reality screen while they are pedalling away on a stationary bike, with all the gadgets such as SRMs HR monitors etc attached and the data projected on huge screen!

No Horillos in ravines, no sliding Menchovs on the cobbles, no Flechas taking down 2 Silence Lotto's, and most importantly... no wheelsucking (unless Cadel put in a request to have his stationary lined up behind Contador's

 

[BroDeal]

No, let's do the opposite. Hook ehm to a Tackx Virtual Reality screen while they are pedalling away on a stationary bike, with all the gadgets such as SRMs HR monitors etc attached and the data projected on huge screen!

No Horillos in ravines, no sliding Menchovs on the cobbles, no Flechas taking down 2 Silence Lotto's, and most importantly... no wheelsucking (unless Cadel put in a request to have his stationary lined up behind Contador's

Lipstick cameras would be cool on some stages. I have always liked in car views in Formula 1. It would be tres cool to see a point of view descent in the Giro.

 

[BigBoat]

I'm all against radios... It favors the stronger teams by allowing them to mobilize themselves.

 

[titan_90]

Lipstick cameras would be cool on some stages. I have always liked in car views in Formula 1. It would be tres cool to see a point of view descent in the Giro.

I agree, this would be very cool. A few years ago one of the races tried this with promising results. I believe it was the Tour de Suisse or the Eneco Tour.

 

[Cribbo]

I love the idea of racing without race radios. It will sort the actual riders from the mere cyclists.

It will be very interesting to see who attemps a breakaway on those days and who the peloton will actually let go.

 

[Angliru]

I recall them putting a camera on Cippolini's bike during the Giro. I think they put it on his seat tube. Interesting perspective.

 

[Bala Verde]

Here's some nice 'between the legs' action (or some other camera position):

Alpe d'Huez

Mont Ventoux

Tourmalet

 

[OctaBech]

Finally teamwork has more depth than the train(JB's favour.. only tactic), but yet there's zero appreciation for what teams like Saxo Bank did in L-B-L.
Why is it avoided like the fire in this debate? Can it be it's because people lack the observation skills they them selves feel the riders are lacking?
That's rather sad considering some people were quick to write off Andy's L-B-L victory as him being extraterrestrial, oh well.

In my not so humble opinion, the riders should be allowed to communicate with each other through radios as it adds to the depth of the tactics while it also force the riders to work together, relying on each other's legs and observation skills.

The big doping tinfoil hatsp) should know that strong team support is the best alternative to doping if the team wants to protect a rider from off days.

But if there are no radios then a team won't be able to use tactics like sending lesser climbers ahead, because they won't be able to corrugate the pace. They'll have to blindly follow the before race tactic where one set of bad legs can ruin it all(so even the domestiques will have pressure on them to be stable).

The real problem isn't the radios but the TV images transmitted which not alone show the gap to a breakaway but also more importantly shows which riders are in it. The team cars will still have TVs on board, the only difference will be the dangerous clusterF* of domestiques in the back of the peloton waiting for orders/info from the car.
You know, riders which need to be very strong so they can quickly bring the info up to the team captain.

Keep the radios and jam the TV + Race radio signals.

 

[Anonymous]

it will be interesting to see if it makes any difference on the two stages this year in the tour..

stage 10, is flat, and would generally be a breakaway group caught at 20km. and then the columbia train.. will it make any odds, i doubt it, they may just catch them a bit earlier...

Stage 13.. is a bit different, and could be a real opportinity..

im just wondering how they are going to work it,. does this mean we are going ot have team cars driving up and down the pelaton like the old days, motorbikes with constant timings on them...?

 

[philcrisp]

At some point the UCI will have to set limits. In the duplicate thread that was posted today, someone mentioned that you could just use a GPS programmed with info about road hazards. Do we want riders with color LCD screens giving detailed route info in real time, including point of view images of upcoming parts of the course? A computerized voice would be telling the rider that in order to catch the break with three kilometers to go, the speed needs to be increased by 0.2 km/hr.

The more I think about it, the more I am in favor of eliminating all electronics, including cyclometers.

I think you mean me (amongst others). I have heard the argument that radios enhance safety by giving warning re hazards. If the commissars have control of that side they wouldn't necessarily be giving out the tactical stuff. Have you seen the roadbook for the Tour of Flanders? (http://rvv.be/rvv/elite-men/roadbook/roadmap.rvv)

it will be interesting to see if it makes any difference on the two stages this year in the tour..

stage 10, is flat, and would generally be a breakaway group caught at 20km. and then the columbia train.. will it make any odds, i doubt it, they may just catch them a bit earlier...

Stage 13.. is a bit different, and could be a real opportinity..

im just wondering how they are going to work it,. does this mean we are going ot have team cars driving up and down the pelaton like the old days, motorbikes with constant timings on them...?

Dimspace, I think you'll find the motos with blackboards never went away.

 

[Animal]

If safety is so important, they could have a one-way, neutral race radio service telling riders about hazards.

Riders should read the race and race like we useless amateurs have to!

 

[Ibanez]

I would love to see more point of view coverage. Would be extremely cool to see a riders POV as they descend in the peloton. Its an incredbly impressive thing and I dont think the tv coverage of cycling often shows the technical aspects of cycling well. How badass would it be to see what Tommeke sees when he accelerates at the front over Arenberg and Carrefour in PR with a wall of people either side. Awesome.

Anyway, I also look forward to the stages ran without race radios. I dont think it is a safety issue at all.

 

[Anonymous]

Anyway, I also look forward to the stages ran without race radios. I dont think it is a safety issue at all.

i think there are some safety issues..

i personally from a racing point of view want radios gone, but from a safety point of view there did used to be some pretty hairy moments with riders putting arms up and team cars pulling in alongside the pelaton.

Its just gonna mean the domestiques have a lot more work to do..

 

[american psycho]

a one-way, neutral race radio service telling riders about hazards.

What about anything in cycling is neutral?

Language to use for race radio would be?

I agree that racing is less exciting with the improvements in communication, but look at US car racing and how many people (is that the right term?) enjoy watching it.

Quit living in the past and accept that technology is advancing, and enjoy the climbs & sprints where radios don't matter.

 

[BroDeal]

I agree that racing is less exciting with the improvements in communication, but look at US car racing and how many people (is that the right term?) enjoy watching it.

Quit living in the past and accept that technology is advancing, and enjoy the climbs & sprints where radios don't matter.

Auto racing does not make your point at all. One of the major functions of the governing bodies of auto racing in all its forms is to set rules that limit technology. The rules are set for reasons of safety, cost, and to maintain some semblance of sport.

Check out F1 this season for an example of technology and creative interpretation of new rules turning the sport into a farce and destroying all credibility that driver skill has anything to do with who wins the championship.

 

[VeloFidelis]

a one-way, neutral race radio service telling riders about hazards.

What about anything in cycling is neutral?

Language to use for race radio would be?

I agree that racing is less exciting with the improvements in communication, but look at US car racing and how many people (is that the right term?) enjoy watching it.

Quit living in the past and accept that technology is advancing, and enjoy the climbs & sprints where radios don't matter.

Interesting point about racing being "less exciting with improvements in communication". The question I have is, how do we know? One of those biggest improvements is better Television coverage. We can see it all now, and we saw only a small part back then (before radios). We all read compelling accounts of the struggles on the climbs, the jockeying for the sprints, the dramatic collapses, but now we get to see it happening.

I would rather not see technology being blamed for the state of competition in the peloton. Yes racing has evolved with communication, but denying technology will probably not restore the good old days as many believe. It will more than likely just create another avenue for controversy over who is, and who isn't communicating.

I have been in a Fassa Bortollo team car for a stage of the 2001 Giro with Ferretti at the wheel and Frigo in the Maglia Rosa. There were four radios in the car, (one Race, one for the other Team car, one for the riders, one for Shimano Tech), three cell phones (all Ferretti's) and an in dash television with the live race footage. By far the most influential component of them all was the live television, and most tactical decisions and instruction were generated from it's use.

That was 2001. I challenge anyone to tell me how ASO is going to eliminate the use of measurably better technology in 2009, and to control communication to the riders. What are going to be the parameters of those limitations? And what are the penalties going to be if they are perceived to have been violated? Will those sanctions be open to appeal to the UCI or CAS. Will an entire team be penalized for an individual rider's communication? I think you can see where this is eventually going.

While we may all wax nostalgic for another time when the selective nature of our recollections tell us that the racing "was better". This is most likely to open a Pandora's Box of unintended consequences, foster deliberate and accidental abuse, and be yet another media disaster for cycling.

I will be watching like the rest of you with high hopes that this is not the eventual outcome. But I know that I am not going to give up my high speed internet and go back to dial up any time soon. I suspect that professional cycling is not quite ready to embrace the "old days" either.

 

[grimpeur]

OHHH nooo!! How did racing ever survive without radios? Believe me, there's enough radio equipped motos and cars in the caravan to cover the safety issue. This argument it given by DSs that will be bored in the cars.

 

[VeloFidelis]

OHHH nooo!! How did racing ever survive without radios? Believe me, there's enough radio equipped motos and cars in the caravan to cover the safety issue. This argument it given by DSs that will be bored in the cars.

Of course racing would survive with out radios, just like you would survive without internet. But you won't be giving that up any time soon, and neither will the peloton.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

It will be interesting to see how they enforce it, and what penalties are.

A few years ago some friends and I took a lipstick cam and I rode around the hills near here. we mounted it on the car as I trailed it, mounted it on the bike with an extra wide lens. Fun stuff. I'll see if I can find it, and post it on YT.

I'm not coaching, or even riding with a group these days (not that I ever did a lot of either), but should see this summer if I can get together with others. It would be great fun to mount a lipstick cam down a technical descent and ride it with a group.